MDH Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The stats say something else- on all of his throws over 20 yards this year he's 6-23 for about a 45 passer rating, right about where his career numbers run and also, at that range (over 20) the worst or one of the worst in the league. He gets an occassional ball over the top because no one puts much emaphasis on coverage over 20 yards deep on a guy who throws so poorly over 20 yards. Does the NE scheme reward the behind the LOS passes that Brady has built a career on? Oh yes- over the recent past their defense has given them lots of extra ops and the little ball O has been productive. If their D continues though to give up the kind of yardage it has this season it won't much matter how many behind the line of scrimmage passes Brady completes and how many yards they run for after the catch- the net result in the W/L column will be a bad NE team. Defense rules, and it's ruled that team during their moment in the sun- it's merely a QB obsessed media and fans who hold Brady up as the most important piece of the puzzle. 479453[/snapback] That "media" you're talking about includes many former players and coaches. All of whom hold Brady in high regard. I guess you must know something they don't. I can't even fathom how anybody can legitimately argue that the Ds the Pats face play them close to the LoS yet can't stop Brady and Co. from busting off 13 yard screen passes repeatedly (Brady's ypc is 12.73). Well, I can fathom it, said person doesn’t actually watch the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I can't even fathom how anybody can legitimately argue that the Ds the Pats face play them close to the LoS yet can't stop Brady and Co. from busting off 13 yard screen passes repeatedly (Brady's ypc is 12.73). 479480[/snapback] Then it's even more peculiar that you're making that argument. The facts are the facts- A) Brady is among the least succesful QBs in the NFL throwing passes beyond 20 yards. B) Without a dominating defense Brady's a .500 QB. So watch all the quarterback play you want to on Sundays, I prefer to watch the things that actually make a difference in the W/L column. And if you want to argue against facts with me you'll have to do a lot better than fabricating some argument that is only confusing to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The Pats could have won 3 of the last 4 SB's with about half a dozen of the currently-starting QB's. And I agree that without his dominating defense and Vinatieri, he's not nearly as successful. Hell just look at Bledsoe winning at Pgh in the 2001 AFCCG and the Pats' 2002 season for proof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Brady is good, but way overrated. Most of his success IS due to the system hes in. 1. You could sub brady for gannon or johnson in the Buccs-Raiders super bowl, and no matter what side he was on, the outcome would have been the same. 2. Theres no way brady could have lead a team like the '99 rams to the SB title 3. Theres no way in hell Brady would have driven the Bills from their own 10 into FG range in SB 25 It sounds like a commercial, but its true: Tied in the Super Bowl? call Tom Brady: leading the league in 20 yard FG drives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Brady is good, but way overrated. Most of his success IS due to the system hes in. 1. You could sub brady for gannon or johnson in the Buccs-Raiders super bowl, and no matter what side he was on, the outcome would have been the same. 2. Theres no way brady could have lead a team like the '99 rams to the SB title 3. Theres no way in hell Brady would have driven the Bills from their own 10 into FG range in SB 25 It sounds like a commercial, but its true: Tied in the Super Bowl? call Tom Brady: leading the league in 20 yard FG drives... 479647[/snapback] I don't remember the plays in the drive on #3, but you're absolutely right about 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 And so, w/ a break in the action, it seems we've learned from this thread that the following QBs were overrated: Joe Namath John Elway Tom Brady Now, we can start talking about the underrated guys we should discuss here: Joe Ferguson Alex Van Pelt Kelly Holcomb Have @ it, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I realize you don't really understand the game very well... This coming from the guy who once said that the top deep passers in the game throw 5-6 40+ yard passes per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The Pats could have won 3 of the last 4 SB's with about half a dozen of the currently-starting QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Then it's even more peculiar that you're making that argument. 479627[/snapback] Umm, sure, I'm the one making that arguement. You caught me. Then it's even more peculiar that you're making that argument. The facts are the facts- A) Brady is among the least succesful QBs in the NFL throwing passes beyond 20 yards. B) Without a dominating defense Brady's a .500 QB. So watch all the quarterback play you want to on Sundays, I prefer to watch the things that actually make a difference in the W/L column. And if you want to argue against facts with me you'll have to do a lot better than fabricating some argument that is only confusing to you. 479627[/snapback] It's a "fact" that he'd be a .500 without a dominating D? Where do you get this sh*t. Do you just make it up in your head and label it a "fact" to make yourself happy? If this is how you define “facts” then yeah, I really don’t want to argue “facts” with you. Yeah, let's take 6 games out of a career and label it a "fact". Anyhow, let's consider this season in which the Pats D is one of the worst in the league thus far. The Pats have played perhaps the toughest schedule in the league (Oak, Carolina, Pittsuburgh, SD, Atl & Denver) and aren't sub .500. Care to lay some money on this "fact"? Hell, you can't lose, it's a FACT they'll be .500 without a "dominating" D! I'll wager any amount of cash that the Pats finish with a winning record this year in every game that Brady plays the majority of the snaps at QB. Also, how about throwing me a link with your over 20 yards completion stats, I'm interested in taking a look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 He is very good but I don't rate him ahead of Steve Young, John Elway, Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh or Roger Staubach. Maybe even others in addition to those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Then it's even more peculiar that you're making that argument. The facts are the facts- A) Brady is among the least succesful QBs in the NFL throwing passes beyond 20 yards. B) Without a dominating defense Brady's a .500 QB. 479627[/snapback] You must not be wearing any pants while you're typing this because I can see your nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Tom Brady. People say things like "Best QB ever" "Best QB playing the game" and other things making him out to be the "Best QB" at something. I've got a few problems with this... 1. Are you serious that he's better than Peyton? The thought of someone being dumb enough to think that just pisses me off sooo bad that I just lose all respect for anyone who says this and just don't care for anything they say anymore. Name just one thing Brady has done or can do that Peyton can't (given the same offense and defense). Just one. Throw a better screen pass or something? Brady cannot do anything that Peyton has not already done to perfection. 2. Just that fact that a very valid arguement can be made that he is a system QB takes him out of running for best QB ever. He's not even top 10. A "Best QB ever" type guy is unquestioned at his QB skills and no one doubts that he is just plain good. Many people (obviously) doubt that Brady is good. Sorry but to be put on a list like that there can b no doubt, and now there is plenty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 You must not be wearing any pants while you're typing this because I can see your nuts. 479688[/snapback] You can stop looking @ any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 If Brady gets kicked to someone like Houston and takes them to regular playoff shots I'll move him up a bit, but right now he appears to me to be the single major beneficiary of being in the Belichick magic show. 479469[/snapback] I think Football is an ultimate team game...and your stars depend on your cast....What makes someone different from the avg. is their ability to get the better of their supporting cast... Kelly had a star cast around him....Great OL, future HoF RB, possible HoF WR....and a great TE...and he did not mess that up.... Same goes for Brady...He works well with his supporting cast....Bledsoe could not work with the same cast, because his game is not set for the type of football Belichek schemed.... The difference between Dilfer and Brady is Dilfer could do that just for one year.....Brady has done it multiple times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Donahoe Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Name just one thing Brady has done or can do that Peyton can't. Just one. Brady's been pretty good at NOT saving his worst performances for January. Manning still has some trouble with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 to play QB I HATE to say it!!! BUt I think we should watch this guy play and enjoy what we are seeing... I'll wish him a broken arm when he plays the Bills but damn he is a good QB 479027[/snapback] Just how hard did you hit that guardrail Nick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Then it's even more peculiar that you're making that argument. B) Without a dominating defense Brady's a .500 QB. 479627[/snapback] This is like saying Jim Kelly is a avg QB without Thomas/Reed and that OL to protect him.... I don't like BRady because he plays for a rival team....but don't discredit his achievements.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 This is like saying Jim Kelly is a avg QB without Thomas/Reed and thatOL to protect him.... 479708[/snapback] This just in, Kelly Holcomb is a better QB than Tom Brady. Fact: Kelly Holcomb is 2-0 this year without a dominating D Fact: Tom Brady is 3-3 this year without a dominating D Conclusion: Holcomb is (obviously) the better QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 This coming from the guy who once said that the top deep passers in the game throw 5-6 40+ yard passes per game. 479675[/snapback] The promise of the young is that they might some day become amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The stats say something else- on all of his throws over 20 yards this year he's 6-23 for about a 45 passer rating, right about where his career numbers run and also, at that range (over 20) the worst or one of the worst in the league. 479453[/snapback] Where are you getting that rating? I plugged the ESPN Numbers (6/23, 214 yards, 3 TD's, 1 INT) into two different calculators and both times came up with 87.32. Calculator 1 and Calculator 2. Now if you are serious about comparing him to Peyton Manning, his numbers are 3/17, 79 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT, for a rating of 46.45. If you're talking about last year, then yeah, his numbers weren't great, but if you measure greatness by the "number of long-ball attempts" he threw more passes over 20 yards than Manning last year as well as this year (82 to 64).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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