TDRupp Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 What evidence do you have to support this theory? 462145[/snapback] He has physical talent, no question. Strong arm, very good mobility, and toughness physically. Problem is QBing in the NFL requires good decision making, accuracy, touch passes or just throwing catchable passes, and the ability to see the whole field )open guy) most of the time. Those are the things he has does very poorly on except the first half of the first game. What bothers me most about the guy is I am not sure he gets that. I know he was probably just saying b/c he thought he would play loose but laast week before the siants game he said something to the affect that he was going to let them fly hard and the receivers better be ready. Makes no difference how hard you throw it JP if it is not accurate. Look at Manning now or remember Jimbo or Farve in their hey day. The guys were covered when they throw the ball but it is delivered were it needs to be so it is catchable not just blistered in geneal area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 That's garbage. He has already shown every single skill you could possibly want in a quarterback. I admit, he has played terribly these last three games. he deserved to be benched both of the times he was benched, even though personally I wouldnt have done it this game, although I understand it. But he has clearly shown that he can throw every pass, he has a cannon, he handles the ball extremely well, he has great running ability and he has very good escapability. He can thread the needle on short slants, mini posts and passes down the middle. 462207[/snapback] Umm, KF&BD, the one thing that he has not shown (and I am not saying I agree with everything you have say he has shown) is the ability to read defenses. While it is true, he handles the ball well, he has neglected to make plays that were there for him to make. That is something that he hasn't shown much improvement in over the last four weeks. He is just not seeing enough of the field. Personally, I think it would be good for him to sit for a week or two, and really watch, with Wyche in his ear. Maybe even from the press box. I agree that there is still a lot to work with in this kid, I am just not sure that he is showing much progress right now. He doesn't look any more comfortable. Just throwing him to the hounds may not be the best thing for him, or the 2005 Bills season, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Umm, KF&BD, the one thing that he has not shown (and I am not saying I agree with everything you have say he has shown) is the ability to read defenses. 463597[/snapback] And therein is the one skill that actually comes with experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 And therein is the one skill that actually comes with experience. 463602[/snapback] So true! I am not a proponent of writing Losman off. I am a proponent, however, of trying to make something of a season that is "on the brink". I don't know that Holcomb is the answer either. I just feel pretty sure, with all the circumstances the way they are right now, we are losing games, at least in part, because of our QB's inexperience. Why not give Holcomb a shot? Why are we resigned to writing this season off already, after only four weeks? This team is obviously not good enough, as we were sold, to carry anyone. We need the best players out there to try to win some games. If we don't make a huge jump over the next 4 games, there will be a whole 8 games left for Losman to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Umm, KF&BD, the one thing that he has not shown (and I am not saying I agree with everything you have say he has shown) is the ability to read defenses. While it is true, he handles the ball well, he has neglected to make plays that were there for him to make. That is something that he hasn't shown much improvement in over the last four weeks. He is just not seeing enough of the field. Personally, I think it would be good for him to sit for a week or two, and really watch, with Wyche in his ear. Maybe even from the press box. I agree that there is still a lot to work with in this kid, I am just not sure that he is showing much progress right now. He doesn't look any more comfortable. Just throwing him to the hounds may not be the best thing for him, or the 2005 Bills season, either. 463597[/snapback] I just don't think being on the sidelines helps him. He needs to play in games. One of the things no one talks about is the reason that JP was considered "raw" by scouts was that he only played two years of college. Patrick Ramsey was ahead of him when he was a freshman and sophomore. He only started two years. Big Ben and Eli started three years in college and Phillip Rivers started all four years. Think Carson palmer started three and maybe four years. JP needs game experience. I also think he looked much better in the last game than he did in the previous two. I also agree with Darin that reading defenses can only be learned by experience in games. I also think that games in the NFL are decided by so many tiny things, by two-three plays a game. And that Loman is very capable of making plays and he is just not doing it yet. The difference in that Atlanta game could easily have been that 3-15, four year vet running quarterback Michael Vick sneaks through the rush and gains 27 yards. He makes the play he needs to make. On 4-15 inches, three game veteran running QB Losman loses his footing and trips, not making the play. I also think that there are two kinds of confidence that come into play. Self-confidence, which is long term, and daily, immediate confidnce which happens during a game. Losman has a ton of self-confidence. He's going to be fine with that. But the short term in game kind of confidence, built on making some plays and scoring some points has been very small. He is constantly missing his receivers, he is constantly put in positions that are very difficult to play your way out of when you're in your 2nd or 3rd or 4th game. Our average start was about the 18 yard line. That's tough to put a young in. And then we would get sacked or penalties. Granted, a lot of that was JP's responsibility because he couldnt get the team to get 2-3 first downs in a row to get them out of that rut. But he wasn't put in a lot of positions to succeed. That will come with experience, and making some plays. Everyone is way, way, way overboard on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I just don't think being on the sidelines helps him. He needs to play in games. One of the things no one talks about is the reason that JP was considered "raw" by scouts was that he only played two years of college. Patrick Ramsey was ahead of him when he was a freshman and sophomore. He only started two years. Big Ben and Eli started three years in college and Phillip Rivers started all four years. Think Carson palmer started three and maybe four years. JP needs game experience. I also think he looked much better in the last game than he did in the previous two. I also agree with Darin that reading defenses can only be learned by experience in games. I also think that games in the NFL are decided by so many tiny things, by two-three plays a game. And that Loman is very capable of making plays and he is just not doing it yet. The difference in that Atlanta game could easily have been that 3-15, four year vet running quarterback Michael Vick sneaks through the rush and gains 27 yards. He makes the play he needs to make. On 4-15 inches, three game veteran running QB Losman loses his footing and trips, not making the play. I also think that there are two kinds of confidence that come into play. Self-confidence, which is long term, and daily, immediate confidnce which happens during a game. Losman has a ton of self-confidence. He's going to be fine with that. But the short term in game kind of confidence, built on making some plays and scoring some points has been very small. He is constantly missing his receivers, he is constantly put in positions that are very difficult to play your way out of when you're in your 2nd or 3rd or 4th game. Our average start was about the 18 yard line. That's tough to put a young in. And then we would get sacked or penalties. Granted, a lot of that was JP's responsibility because he couldnt get the team to get 2-3 first downs in a row to get them out of that rut. But he wasn't put in a lot of positions to succeed. That will come with experience, and making some plays. Everyone is way, way, way overboard on this. 463733[/snapback] Maybe you are right...hell, I know you are right. It is just hard to watch this, and watch another season slip away.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Maybe you are right...hell, I know you are right. It is just hard to watch this, and watch another season slip away.... 463773[/snapback] I am not saying this year is going to be like last year but it very well could be. We are playing bad, we are being coached bad, we are making boneheaded plays at terrible times, we are letting teams beat us that we should be winning against, we are starting slowly, we are not playing as a team, we have guys hurt and guys not playing up to their ability let alone potential. That is just what happened last year. It's early. If I had to bet, of course I don't think the Bills are making the playoffs, but hardly anyone thought they would be in a position last year either. A lot can happen in a season. JP will get a lot better. The division is going to have an uncharacteristically off year. It still could get interesting. Suddenly splitting with the Jets doesn't seem like a hope but more of a likelihood, if we get any kind of momentum. Suddenly being swept by the patriots doesn't seem like a foregone conclusion (again, if we turn this thing around). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 4 games and JP is on the scrap heap. Unreal. Everyone associated with the Bills said JP would stuggle. Even TD who talks out of both sides of his mouth. Everyone has watched countless young QB's struggle for a year or even two. It will take this entire season plus another offseason, training camp and preseason plus another handful of games next season to even have an idea if Losman is a bust or not. Nothing anyone can do about it except B word and moan and write him off I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerstm Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I finally got calmed down and then I read this stupid ignorant post.. I just don't understand how people can think this way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope zimli Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 It pains me to say but when you compare JP's first 3 starts to the guys i mentioned, JP is right on target,,,well his yardage is much lower. Actually Leaf threw for some decent yardage over the course of his 3 miserable years but INT's killed him. Smith and Shuler just sucked royally and completed about 48% of their passes. FYI- i think JP is talented ...just needs to calm down a bit and play like it's fun again. 462141[/snapback] I suspect a little more pass protection, a little more running, and a little more effort by the coaching staff and receivers might help somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 It pains me to say but when you compare JP's first 3 starts to the guys i mentioned, JP is right on target,,,well his yardage is much lower. Actually Leaf threw for some decent yardage over the course of his 3 miserable years but INT's killed him. Smith and Shuler just sucked royally and completed about 48% of their passes. FYI- i think JP is talented ...just needs to calm down a bit and play like it's fun again. 462141[/snapback] Did you see Eli Manning's numbers last season? He completed 48.2% of his passes and averaged 5.3 yards per pass. Of course Eli is hardly proven yet but he has shown to be better thus far this year. Most young QBs struggle in the early going. Give JP a little more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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