Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 It was a player mistake. Teams try to not blitz Vick and "contain" him all the time. When he is on his game, that doesn't work either and often backfires. When he is not on his game, he looks like garbage. Teams try to use shadows on him all the time. When he is on his game, that doesn't work either and often backfires. When he is not, he looks like garbage. Teams have had a lot of success blitzing Vick and forcing him into quick and often bad throws. They have had a lot of success against him making him run around and get huge losses (he's one of the higher sacked QBs in the league). Trying to "contain" him, from all I have seen, works way worse than blitzing him because 80% of the time he's simply going to run by, run around, juke or break the tackle of the contain man or men. he's probably the best open field runner in all of football. The Bills problem was not the scheme and was not the game plan. We had guys that didn't do what they were told to do, and didn't make tackles and didn't make plays when they were there to make plays. Not to mention Fletcher being on one leg trying to run after Vick. Vick was on his game, he made very good decisions and he made very good throws (when some games he looks like JP does now). And when he didn't, Brain Finneran makes one of the best catches on the sideline I have ever seen. Personally, I think it's nonsense to blame the defensive coaches on this one. The offensive coaches, however... And the head coach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The problem wasn't so much the blitzing Kelly, it was that the blitzers blitzed upfield too much and ended up taking themselves way out of the play. It would have been more effective to use some kind of "contain blitz" where the goal is to disrupt timing and clog lanes, but trying to rush upfield, then turn around and chase after Vick is just assinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The Bills problem was not the scheme and was not the game plan. We had guys that didn't do what they were told to do, and didn't make tackles and didn't make plays when they were there to make plays. 456556[/snapback] If you don't mind confirming for me just in case I missed something- The offensive players are responsible for listening to the offensive coaches and executing their strategy, and when the players don't listen it's the offensive coaches fault. The defensive players are responsible for listening to and executing the defensive coaches strategy, and when the players don't listen it's their own fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 The problem wasn't so much the blitzing Kelly, it was that the blitzers blitzed upfield too much and ended up taking themselves way out of the play. It would have been more effective to use some kind of "contain blitz" where the goal is to disrupt timing and clog lanes, but trying to rush upfield, then turn around and chase after Vick is just assinine. 456562[/snapback] I think that is too simplistic. You don't know before you blitz whether it is going to be a run or a pass, or whether it is going to be a 3 or 5 or 7 step drop. All blitzes are designed to have guys clog lanes and other guys working together to cover the entire field. To me, the players took them out of the plays by their actions, or were there and didn't make the play, it wasn't that they were sent too wide or too deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 If you don't mind confirming for me just in case I missed something- The offensive players are responsible for listening to the offensive coaches and executing their strategy, and when the players don't listen it's the offensive coaches fault. The defensive players are responsible for listening to and executing the defensive coaches strategy, and when the players don't listen it's their own fault. 456570[/snapback] No, I cannot confirm or deny that. If I knew what you are getting at I may be able to in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Football 101. If you like to blitz, build a 3 - 4 set team. If you run a 4 - 3 and and blitz a lot, expect getting burned by short routes and RB's bursting through for nice gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I think that is too simplistic. You don't know before you blitz whether it is going to be a run or a pass, or whether it is going to be a 3 or 5 or 7 step drop. All blitzes are designed to have guys clog lanes and other guys working together to cover the entire field. To me, the players took them out of the plays by their actions, or were there and didn't make the play, it wasn't that they were sent too wide or too deep. 456585[/snapback] The problem as I saw it was that bringing the 5th or 6th man took away our ability to cover their backs slipping to the sides of the field or give any help on top with the WRs. This left us in single coverage and consequently forced our cover guys to play behind their assignments. This allowed all the passes Vick completed of 5 yards or less to behind the LOS that were killing us. In their first drive they had a 3rd and 14 that went 21 yards on a 2 yard pass plus an earlier behind the LOS first down pass going for 8 yards. It kept happening all day long and our insistence on blitzing kept allowing Vick to throw this garbage on us and eventually beat us to death by our taking advantage of a scheme we refused to adjust. Dropping the extra rushers back into coverage could have allowed our dbs to jump routes and make Atlanta pay for throwing that kind of crap; we couldn't take those risks because we had too many committed to rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 No, I cannot confirm or deny that. If I knew what you are getting at I may be able to in the future. 456591[/snapback] What is your favorite movie? If you say "Sound of Music" I will puke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 Football 101. If you like to blitz, build a 3 - 4 set team. If you run a 4 - 3 and and blitz a lot, expect getting burned by short routes and RB's bursting through for nice gains. 456599[/snapback] Come on. The Bills (alleged) great defense was built on blitzes. That is what made us successful the last few seasons. There isn't a reason to change that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 The problem as I saw it was that bringing the 5th or 6th man took away our ability to cover their backs slipping to the sides of the field or give any help on top with the WRs. This left us in single coverage and consequently forced our cover guys to play behind their assignments. This allowed all the passes Vick completed of 5 yards or less to behind the LOS that were killing us. In their first drive they had a 3rd and 14 that went 21 yards on a 2 yard pass plus an earlier behind the LOS first down pass going for 8 yards. It kept happening all day long and our insistence on blitzing kept allowing Vick to throw this garbage on us and eventually beat us to death by our taking advantage of a scheme we refused to adjust. Dropping the extra rushers back into coverage allows our dbs to jump routes and make Atlanta pay for throwing that kind of crap, we couldn't take those risks because we had too many committed to rush. 456604[/snapback] Blitzing like that got us where we are on defense. Blitzing like that got us our only turnover and put us back in the game. We didn't blitz every play. I think we blitzed one guy on the 3rd and 14 that killed us when Vick ran 27 yards. Four of the five guys he eluded if I recall were not in the Falcons backfield but on our side of the ball. He didn't beat us by his passing at all, he beat us by his running and that was a case, IMO, of the defenders blowing their assignments or missing plays that were there for the taking rather than being put in a bad situation by their coaches. Another good example was the quick Vick pass that killed us on the play that Vincent wasn't where he should have been and TKO had his back to the ball when it was snapped trying to get him there. That play wasn't the fault of Clements blizting it was the players blowing their assignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Football 101. If you like to blitz, build a 3 - 4 set team. If you run a 4 - 3 and and blitz a lot, expect getting burned by short routes and RB's bursting through for nice gains. 456599[/snapback] Football 102... Then came the 46 defense based on 4 and 5 down linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Come on. The Bills (alleged) great defense was built on blitzes. That is what made us successful the last few seasons. There isn't a reason to change that now. 456608[/snapback] Define success - other than slapping around some NFC West patsies last season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 Define success - other than slapping around some NFC West patsies last season... 456617[/snapback] If you would actually watch Bills games perhaps I wouldnt need to explain it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Deal with it ,,,we were in the game until the end against a team thats very good, they were in the nfc championship game last january and will be again this year most likely it's over with deal with it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Define success - other than slapping around some NFC West patsies last season... 456617[/snapback] Right those Rams and Seahawks who ALL had rated as better teams than us last year? Hindsight is 20/20. The same will happen this year with some of the coming games that we assume will be impossible to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 If you would actually watch Bills games perhaps I wouldnt need to explain it to you. 456624[/snapback] The fact of my current geographical location has nothing to do with it. Football is not rocket science, and I've seen tons of it through the years. Address the topic, and try again, without the reducio ad absurdum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 It was a player mistake. Teams try to not blitz Vick and "contain" him all the time. When he is on his game, that doesn't work either and often backfires. When he is not on his game, he looks like garbage. Teams try to use shadows on him all the time. When he is on his game, that doesn't work either and often backfires. When he is not, he looks like garbage. Teams have had a lot of success blitzing Vick and forcing him into quick and often bad throws. They have had a lot of success against him making him run around and get huge losses (he's one of the higher sacked QBs in the league). Trying to "contain" him, from all I have seen, works way worse than blitzing him because 80% of the time he's simply going to run by, run around, juke or break the tackle of the contain man or men. he's probably the best open field runner in all of football. The Bills problem was not the scheme and was not the game plan. We had guys that didn't do what they were told to do, and didn't make tackles and didn't make plays when they were there to make plays. Not to mention Fletcher being on one leg trying to run after Vick. Vick was on his game, he made very good decisions and he made very good throws (when some games he looks like JP does now). And when he didn't, Brain Finneran makes one of the best catches on the sideline I have ever seen. Personally, I think it's nonsense to blame the defensive coaches on this one. The offensive coaches, however... And the head coach... 456556[/snapback] We blitzed and he bought just enough time to hit a receiver open in man to man coverage and on a few occasions, tacked on PF penalty for an illegal hit from a frustrated blitzer. When we sat back in coverage he just hung on until we were dropped so deep that all he had to do was dodge a defenisve lineman or two that were all ready engaged by offensive lineman to run for good yardage. The only thing I can think of to stop that is maybe to use delayed blitzes or modest one where you send only one or two extra people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 The fact of my current geographical location has nothing to do with it. Football is not rocket science, and I've seen tons of it through the years. Address the topic, and try again, without the reducio ad absurdum. 456646[/snapback] I live further away than you. It's simple to watch the Bills. You either buy the NFL Season Ticket or you go to a sports bar in your area that shows the games. You don't even watch the games, you've said so numerous times. If you did, you would know that the Bills have a pretty damn good defense. And have for a couple years. It is not an awesome defense, it's not a historic defense, but it's pretty friggin' good 90% of the time. And it's built around a lot of blitzing. And frankly, football at this level IS rocket science. Why do you think Bill Bellicheck is the best coach in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I live further away than you. It's simple to watch the Bills. You either buy the NFL Season Ticket or you go to a sports bar in your area that shows the games. You don't even watch the games, you've said so numerous times. If you did, you would know that the Bills have a pretty damn good defense. And have for a couple years. It is not an awesome defense, it's not a historic defense, but it's pretty friggin' good 90% of the time. And it's built around a lot of blitzing. And frankly, football at this level IS rocket science. Why do you think Bill Bellicheck is the best coach in the league? 456657[/snapback] I've made comment and taken the umbrage by noting that the #2 defense ranking last season was a bit of smoke and mirrors. Through many years, I look at play-by-play, the playcalling, the trends this or that quarter, and get a good idea of what's going on. I need not watch. Chill out a bit, Kelly. You seem close to accusing me of not being a Bill's fan, and that would be just... plain...wrong. Pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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