The Rverside Rat Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Wow. I didn't realize that! JP was friggin' WAY better than Favre his first year! JP was 3/5 for 32 yards and only 1 INT. That's more than TWICE as good! His completion percentage was 60 friggin' points higher! And his QB rating way over 39 friggin' points better! How 'bout THEM apples, VA?! 415385[/snapback] sounds like jp has a nice career ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Sorry, saying you hope you are wrong, and admitting that you are are two different things. Just checked NFL.com Favre year 1 (with ATL) 5 attempts 0 completions 0 TDs 2 INTs year 2 (with GB) 471 attempts 302 completions 18 TDs 13 INTs year 3 (with GB) 522 attempts 318 completions 19 TDs 24 INTs 3 year total (just TDs to INTs since that was your point "just the facts") 37 TDs 39 INTs Just the facts, VA EDIT: Also, my point wasn't about Favre's TD-INT ratio (as I never mentioned TDs), it was simply about the high number of INTs. As you said, focus on only what you want to read 415369[/snapback] Sorry I thought he had 24 tds to 13ints that second year. Not 18. But 13 ints is not bad either, and not throing ints like they are going out of style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I'd be willing to bet that VA's scout friend is STILL clinging to the notion that JP will be a bust, and thus VA is as well. Sorry but the game film doesn't support that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 (edited) hey guys, ... he said "sorry"!!!! Going out of style was my impression/opinion of his first few years. And I still would contend that 39 INTs in his first 2 years plus 5 passes a lot. That would be my opinion. By comparison, Kelly threw a lot of INTs in his first 2 years. I remember thinking that he came to the game drunk. He had 41 INTs. That's a lot, too. EDIT: Sorry, I read the wrong column in Kelly's stats, he only threw 28 INTs in his first two campaigns, but it still seemed like a lot. Makes 39 look even bigger, eh? Edited August 23, 2005 by pkwwjd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 There is something to all of this. Losman averaged 4.5 yards per pass play against GB. I'm not sure he's going through all of his downfield reads - either that, or perhaps they've shortened up the field for him. What he does do, however, is force the defense to adjust how it plays - specifically, how it passrushes, and where it positions its linebackers (i.e., a "spy" likely is needed somewhere in the front 7). This is important - with Holcomb/Bledsoe, the d-line could just tee off and free up the rest of the D. We'll see after the first few games of the regular season whether JP will be able to remain patient through his reads and complete passes downfield. Overall, at this stage, I'd say he's produced mixed results - yes he's mobile, and yes he's put points on the board, but defenses will be able to load up the box if he doesn't start looking downfield more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 hey guys, ... he said "sorry"!!!! Going out of style was my impression/opinion of his first few years. And I still would contend that 39 INTs in his first 2 years plus 5 passes a lot. That would be my opinion. By comparison, Kelly threw a lot of INTs in his first 2 years. I remember thinking that he came to the game drunk. He had 41 INTs. That's a lot, too. EDIT: Sorry, I read the wrong column in Kelly's stats, he only threw 28 INTs in his first two campaigns, but it still seemed like a lot. Makes 39 look even bigger, eh? 415424[/snapback] Whats the big deal about INT's? I dont care how good you are/are going to be, all rookies throw INT's and thats a fact... Peyton threw 28 INT's his first season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Whats the big deal about INT's? I dont care how good you are/are going to be, all rookies throw INT's and thats a fact...Peyton threw 28 INT's his first season... 415438[/snapback] It simply goes back to my post that VA was bellyaching about ... I said that JP hasn't thrown any INTs in just over 1 full game of preseason work. I know he'll throw INTs, but my point is that he's not making poor reads (mental errors, boneheaded reads) that result in picks. All QBs, regardless of experience, throw picks. JP needs to avoid the dumb ones. I'll take an ocassional pick cuz he got hit or his confidence is slightly ahead of his skill (he forces one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 It simply goes back to my post that VA was bellyaching about ... I said that JP hasn't thrown any INTs in just over 1 full game of preseason work. I know he'll throw INTs, but my point is that he's not making poor reads (mental errors, boneheaded reads) that result in picks. All QBs, regardless of experience, throw picks. JP needs to avoid the dumb ones. I'll take an ocassional pick cuz he got hit or his confidence is slightly ahead of his skill (he forces one). 415441[/snapback] Ahh ok...good point...i agree, i'll live with the INTs that come from him trying to do too much and forcing one in when he should throw away (ala mad-bomber-early-career favre) but you are right, as long too many dont result from a misread or the D confusing him i'll be ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Ahh ok...good point...i agree, i'll live with the INTs that come from him trying to do too much and forcing one in when he should throw away (ala mad-bomber-early-career favre) but you are right, as long too many dont result from a misread or the D confusing him i'll be ok... 415445[/snapback] Favre got in the discussion when I said something about him throwing INTs like "they were going out of style" to which VA replied that he had a 2-1 TD-INT ratio his first season in GB. That has been soundly refuted, despite VA's claim that only he has been using facts in our discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Favre got in the discussion when I said something about him throwing INTs like "they were going out of style" to which VA replied that he had a 2-1 TD-INT ratio his first season in GB. That has been soundly refuted, despite VA's claim that only he has been using facts in our discussion. 415452[/snapback] yah i saw that...the problem with facts is that they can get in the way of a really good arguement/rant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I don't know how to evaluate his future ability. From what I have seen I am disappointed in his level of play so far. I see some good things and I see some bad things. The difference on whether he will be good or not is if he can overcome those bad things. 415297[/snapback] How many QBs who haven't even started a single NFL regular season game and have 5 passes on their regular season resume have only good things? In the history of the NFL I don't think there has been one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I watched the delayed broadcast yesterday and Losman seems like a spider on a gridle. Run Forrest run. Oh look a reciever.On the other hand Holcomb drops, plants, and fires. OK, I'll duck now. 415093[/snapback] I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt now but if in 3 years he hasn't learned to become comfortable in the pocket and succeed, then it's time for a new QB. Simple as that. The thing about having a competent O-line doesn't even matter--at least on this board it doesn't. It's funny but pocket passers take their teams to the playoffs and actually win SB's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt now but if in 3 years he hasn't learned to become comfortable in the pocket and succeed, then it's time for a new QB. Simple as that. The thing about having a competent O-line doesn't even matter--at least on this board it doesn't. It's funny but pocket passers take their teams to the playoffs and actually win SB's! 415531[/snapback] Not that I disagree with you, I just thought it was funny as hell that somebody has said the line "then its time for a new QB" regarding JP when the guy hasn't started a single regular season game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 umm, losman is the starter until he brakes something. Holcomb is decent, but come on he could not even play for cleveland. 415399[/snapback] I definitely don't agree with this statement. Evryone keeps pulling up stats on great QBs earily in their career. All of those QBs and the teams they were playing for were rebuilding, we are not. Big difference. TD didn't sign a guy with the experience and price tag of Holcomb to hold a clip board. He signed him as an insurance policy so another season doesn't get flushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I'd say he's produced mixed results - yes he's mobile, and yes he's put points on the board, but defenses will be able to load up the box if he doesn't start looking downfield more often. I still don't get this thread/thinking! Before the Bills played a down against an opponent, everyone, the JP non-lovers included, were saying that they hoped he kept the mistakes (i.e. turnovers) to a minimum. Well that's what he's BEEN doing! But now that he's shown a penchant for not turning the ball over, it's "he needs to pass it deeper" or "he needs to stay in the pocket because he COULD get hurt." I don't know, I guess I'll take that as a sign that people are expecting more out of JP because of what he's shown, and that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I still don't get this thread/thinking! Before the Bills played a down against an opponent, everyone, the JP non-lovers included, were saying that they hoped he kept the mistakes (i.e. turnovers) to a minimum. Well that's what he's BEEN doing! But now that he's shown a penchant for not turning the ball over, it's "he needs to pass it deeper" or "he needs to stay in the pocket because he COULD get hurt." I don't know, I guess I'll take that as a sign that people are expecting more out of JP because of what he's shown, and that's a good thing. 416132[/snapback] Isn't the answer, BOTH? He has to keep his mistakes to a minimum, and he also has to spread out the D a bit by looking downfield. The two things are not exclusive of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Isn't the answer, BOTH? He has to keep his mistakes to a minimum, and he also has to spread out the D a bit by looking downfield. The two things are not exclusive of each other. I think keeping the mistakes to a minimum was the most we should have been expecting of him. And in doing that, I expected to see dinks and dunks, not long, low-percentage, throws. However I think that the Bills are purposely trying not to show teams that they intend on passing deep once the regular season starts, and JP has had more than a few deep throws, but most of the one's I've seen have either been dropped or subject to PI that isn't called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booya2 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 It seems to me that JP is having trouble finding his receivers right now, which isn't a huge surprise. It should take him a while to get comfortable and see things back there. That said, I think it's going to really open up for him, because he can scramble so well. Defenses can't send everyone up the middle crashing the pocket or pay full attention to coverage down field, because JP will simply tuck it and move the chains every time. Defenses aren't going to be able to play as aggressively and rush the passer, nor are they going to be able to turn their backs and cover down field with no threat of the QB taking off and running, so JP is going to get more time and receivers are going to get better separation. Of all the QB's we've had in recent years, this guy could (once he "gets it" ) be Flutie with better size and an arm, which could be scary. This just seems to be night and day with how teams played Drew and Rob the past 5 years, and it's fun to watch. It's not to say we won't take our lumps this year at times, but ultimately I think we're a playoff team again when it's all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 25, 2005 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I agree JP needs some work (big surprise there) but I predict when his career is over what will be remembered most about JP is his will to win, a la Jim Kelly. That counts for a lot and I'm glad we have a QB with a raging competitive fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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