Dawgg Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 John, I'd agree with you... but if my grandma was under center in a Bills uniform you'd gush about her too. - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMMER07 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I think one thing that will hurt this team is to come down on JPL too hard when he does make a mistake, which he will. If the media and the fans destroy his confidence.. well, hello Ryan Leaf. 401135[/snapback] Come on Dude, be real. Losman is already better off than Ryan Leaf in all departments. He conducts himself like a gentleman, he is more athletic, and has worked harder in the last six months than Leaf did in two years. The media can not destroy a strong man's confidence, neither can fickle fans. He knows, we know, and the Bills FO knows he will make plenty of mistakes this year. Everyone needs to stop with this speculation on his abilities to play and lead after only two weeks of camp and one scrimmage, or at least the negative speculation. Get behind him 100% and realize he is human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Sure there was illegal contact but I don't see that as evidence of JP's coming greatness anymore than I see that pick he almost threw as reason enough to cancel my season tickets. The almost INT was just that, almost. The illegal contact on the play was real. I'm saying that if you want to call it an almost INT, then it was an almost TD on that other play. Nothing about his impending greatness either, just that throwing for 60% and not getting sacked is NOT "iffy," "bad," much less "terrible." I think its holding if it occurs before the ball is thrown and if the contact happens while it is in the air, it is PI. This occurred while the ball was in the air so my understanding is that it would be PI unless it was uncatchable or contact that was "incidental" though I think they have moved away from that "incidental" distinction in recent years. Put it this way, a flag SHOULD have been thrown because the defender had his arm around Lee's waist, and that's illegal. Whether it was holding versus PI is a judgement call on the refs, but it's not a matter of saying that since it happened while the ball was in the air, it's PI, but since it looked uncatchable, it wasn't PI. Especially now with the re-emphasis on DB's mugging WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 The almost INT was just that, almost. The illegal contact on the play was real. I'm saying that if you want to call it an almost INT, then it was an almost TD on that other play. Nothing about his impending greatness either, just that throwing for 60% and not getting sacked is NOT "iffy," "bad," much less "terrible." Put it this way, a flag SHOULD have been thrown because the defender had his arm around Lee's waist, and that's illegal. Whether it was holding versus PI is a judgement call on the refs, but it's not a matter of saying that since it happened while the ball was in the air, it's PI, but since it looked uncatchable, it wasn't PI. Especially now with the re-emphasis on DB's mugging WR's. 401374[/snapback] I don't think either of us knows why the call was not made. I do think the referee has the option of not calling PI when, in his judgment the pass was not catchable. That may have changed but last I knew, they can do that. I think that to assume JP would have thrown a TD had it not been for the interference, you would have to assume that the pass was on target and we don't know that it was. You also have to assume that Lee would make the catch and that he would not have been tackled. That pick was a pick if the guy hadn't dropped it when it was right in his hands. So I think he screwed up there no matter how you slice it. Believe me, in the film room I don't think the coaches are going to run that play and say "way to make him drop it JP". He made a mistake, he knows it, the coaches know it, the announcers know it, the team knows it, we all know it. I don't think it was that big a deal but you seem to find it necessary to excuse it or minimize it somehow. For my part, I am not faulting him at all or even downgrading him because of the result of the play with Evans. On the other hand, there is just no question in my mind that on that near pick, he was staring at the receiver right from the snap and because he did, the pass was read big time by the defender. He threw the ball anyway meaning he failed to see the defender right there and failed to realize that he had been staring at the guy tipping the play to begin with. It isn't the end of the world or anything, it is just a fact that he blew that play about as bad as it can be blown. It is a legitimate criticsm of his performance in that scrimmage. He definitely did some good things, no doubt, and you are right that for anyone to get too negative is just crazy but at the same time, he made some mistakes and that near pick was simply an awful play. I am prepared to see him make quite a few more of those as he develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I don't think either of us knows why the call was not made. I do think the referee has the option of not calling PI when, in his judgment the pass was not catchable. That may have changed but last I knew, they can do that. I think that to assume JP would have thrown a TD had it not been for the interference, you would have to assume that the pass was on target and we don't know that it was. You also have to assume that Lee would make the catch and that he would not have been tackled. That pick was a pick if the guy hadn't dropped it when it was right in his hands. So I think he screwed up there no matter how you slice it. Believe me, in the film room I don't think the coaches are going to run that play and say "way to make him drop it JP". He made a mistake, he knows it, the coaches know it, the announcers know it, the team knows it, we all know it. I don't think it was that big a deal but you seem to find it necessary to excuse it or minimize it somehow. For my part, I am not faulting him at all or even downgrading him because of the result of the play with Evans. On the other hand, there is just no question in my mind that on that near pick, he was staring at the receiver right from the snap and because he did, the pass was read big time by the defender. He threw the ball anyway meaning he failed to see the defender right there and failed to realize that he had been staring at the guy tipping the play to begin with. It isn't the end of the world or anything, it is just a fact that he blew that play about as bad as it can be blown. It is a legitimate criticsm of his performance in that scrimmage. He definitely did some good things, no doubt, and you are right that for anyone to get too negative is just crazy but at the same time, he made some mistakes and that near pick was simply an awful play. I am prepared to see him make quite a few more of those as he develops. I've never said that almost INT was a good play. Just that it didn't hurt him and if anything taught him a lesson early-on in his young career. And since he's supposedly a fast learner, he won't make that same mistake again when it really counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 - I have the benefit of being able to watch it on NFL network..... - One thing that needs to be understood here.....every QB on the bills roster...EVERY QB EVEN GOLDSBERRY has had the benefit of more NFL playing time then Losman...... - With that being said...Losman is the future of this team....and I have seen a LOT of franchise rookie QB's go out and look a lot worse then Losman......hell....Eli Manning looked like crap last preseason I thought and was drafted well ahead of JPL...... - What I would like everyone to ask themselves....HAD LEE EVANS NOT BEEN HELD ON THAT THROW AND CAUGHT THAT BALL FOR A TOUCHDOWN WOULD YOU ALL STILL BE SO NEGATIVE (For those who are) - He showed the ability to get moving downfield....then he showed the ability to throw the short pass (something we could not do last year) then he showed the ability to get out of the pocket and make a play (something we could not do last year) - There is a reason why Goldsberry was not a starting QB - There is a reason why Kelly Holcomb kept getting benched then started in Cleveland - Same with the other QB JPL is just going to continue to get better.....in my humble opinion I think he deserves to wait until after preseason and probably 3 games in before we make our final evaluation....... 401131[/snapback] I will hold off judgement until game 6 of the regular season. I know he won't lead us into the playoffs. He just has to be the caretaker of the offense and make zero mistakes--then we're in. JP is still a rookie after all but alot of board members will take a dump on him if he doesn't take us to the SB! That's foolish. As it stands right now, JP is not better than Jimbo and it's ludicrous to expect that out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 One other thing I forgot to mention..... Please everyone should feel free to criticize or reserve judgement as they see fit.....but in the end I also agree that results are the most important thing..... There is a flipside to that arguement to.....if JPL is struggling....and we are still WINNING.......then I think everyone should also keep the end result in mind. Because that could very well be what is in store for us the beginning of the season...... I can very well envision some games where JPL will throw an untimely pick......but will also lead us to some scores.....the defense will win it in the end.....and we come out with the W with JPL not looking so hot..... What I take solice in is the fact that while I expect it to happen like this early....I think JPL will get better every week.....and by the time it comes time for playoffs.....JPL will have worked out some of the kinks.... My goal for this team this year is to make the playoffs...which we have NOT DONE IN YEARS we have had bad QB play for a while so we should be used to it...... 401185[/snapback] I agree with you about results determining for the most part his fate as a starter. I think he starts and remains starter unless we lose a bunch of games AND his play can be fairly directly sited as the reason for those losses. The most likely scenario (which I hope never happens again) for the unlikely occurence that he gets benched is that he gets hurt or nicked badly. There is a firm example of MM staying the course at QB even in the face of bad results of his keeping Bledsoe as the guy even after an 0-4 start (true there were few and no alternatives as Matthews was a the only other answer and he was a non-answer for us. However, there was not even a peep of looking at the waiver wire or assessing Matthews and I suspect even with an 0-4 start Losman starts game 5 anyway. I think one of the ironies is that the likelihood for JP playing is that as he learns the game his stats will probably be fairly Bledsoe like in terms of results. Just as the correct thing for MM to do in the face of Bledsoe's stats and play at 0-4 or 1-5 was to stick with the inadequate QB we had. I expect once the regular season begins JP will at least have a series of learning hiccups and actually will be reasonably judged inadequate as an NFL QB in 05, but given what I have seen from MM, TC, April and Gray the team can produce a winning record even with JP being inadequate as a QB while he learns the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Actually, when you consider that Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions as a rookie, a final evaluation of Losman is probably won't be possible for a couple of years. No one wants to hear that, but its the truth. 401137[/snapback] Yes, it certainly is the truth. I like the kid, but imo it would be something of a miracle if JP, on opening day, is ready to lead the Bills to a 10 win season. Could it happen? Yes, but it is anything but a given. All we can do is support this kid and hope for the best. If he doesn't work out, it will NOT be because he didn't work hard enough. In that sense, JP has already "won me over." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OBXBILLSFAN Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Good God, I can't believe how negative some people are after what was actually a very nice debut by JP. This "Let's bring in Holcomb" nonsense is absolutely ludicrous. I guess the Hot Pockets generation wouldn't be content with anything less than 15 of 15 for 300 yards and 2 TD passes in his 2 series. It was a scrimmage after less than one week of camp, folks. Why doesn't the lynch mob just unsaddle their horses, put away their rope, go home, and relax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30dive Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 So the experts are saying that JP was "iffy", not that good, lucky to have the backs, recievers, D and special teams around him. He was "average", I'll take that, I'll take the fact that he outperformed a Hall of Fame QB, he actualy ran a pretty good offense, and most importantly he "looked" like a leader. From where I sat, he threw only one really bad pass that should have been 6 for the Pack; and yes he could've tucked the ball in the red-zone and scored six himself. When the season starts, and he has four pre-season games under his belt he will have conditioned himself to make that choice, however, on Friday all he is hearing is "pass, pass, pass, avoid running with the ball and look for the receiver. Had he tucked it and ran for six, all the "experts" would be going on about how JP can't do that, "he has to look for the receiver, he is not a Tulane anymore." All in all not a bad performance by JP. Average at best you say...average at worst I say. Peters may very well be the starting LT this season. He once again looked very good for a TE from Arkansas. His size, smarts, youth and the coaching he is getting make him a good bet for a long career protecting JP's backside. Off to Indy, if I can say the same about JP next week, I think things will be just fine at One Bills Drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 The only "experts" I've heard about who have said JP didn't look good/promising are Clayton and Kiper, both guys who never played football and who don't have near the clout of someone like Dan Reeves. And again based on what I saw and his stats, how anyone can say he didn't look good/promising is beyond me! But hey, that's JUST me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 His size, smarts, youth and the coaching he is getting make him a good bet for a long career protecting JP's backside. 401806[/snapback] I'm open to the idea that Peters is smart, and has some oher reason (semi-literate?) he scores in the single digits on his Wonderlic test. So long as he has the street smarts to do what it takes in the trenches.... At very least, he's fun to watch. He does seem to be picking up his new role quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 My expectations for Losman are extremely low. That is not an indictment of his abilities but rather an indictment of his predecessor. I don't want to make this a bash Bledsoe thread, but I truly believe Shane Matthews could have went 9-7 last year with that team. As long as Losman doesn't turn the ball over I will be happy. He has all the tools to keep defenses honest. If he can keep the turnovers down, the Bills will have a better offense because it will be less predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Losman will take his lumps. He's young and inexperienced at the NFL level. I'd be more worried if he has a similar year to Roethlisberger last year (set the world on fire through most of the season, then play very badly in the playoffs, ultimately costing your team its best shot at a Super Bowl, perhaps for years to come). Big Ben is looking squarely at a HUGE sophomore jinx season. I just want JP to be consistent, to play hard, and not try to win games all by himself. He's not there...yet. Hand the ball to Willis and make smart play-action passes and adjustments on the run. JP can already run better than Big Ben, so he's got an advantage there. But I'm not comparing the two QB's. For those of you looking for that Big-Ben type season...forget it. The Bills aren't going 15-1 this year. I'd be happy with 10-6 and a wildcard, which they are perfectly capable of doing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djh Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Amen...... Reports were that JP was smiling ear to ear. Coaches were happy.......He definitely did not suck. First game just happened to be in front of 60,000 on the road vs his idol (Favre). JP more than held his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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