There’s something different about McD this season…

[T.E.]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Seriously dude I respect you and your opinion I'm not one to discredit other people 

 

Yet it's a very lazy take for anybody to think Josh Allen becomes Josh Allen on all 31 other franchises.. that's literally not how the NFL works 

 

It takes an organization to groom a quarterback.. John elway passed up on Josh not because he didn't think he had tons of talent.. but because he didn't think he would be able to harness all that talent and groom him 

 

Nobody's passing up Josh Allen 

 

Sean McDermott has been a very consistent presence in this organization... Bill belichick had a huge part in grooming Tom Brady but he's not in offensive guy 

 

But he is a professional coach 

 

Sean has helped groom Josh into the steady Superstar we see today...

 

To think he would be this level on 31 other teams is not true and if it was he would have been the first overall pick guaranteed 

 

It could be true that he has tremendous talent and is the best player in the world but also that the bills helped groom him

 

 

LMAO, McDermott watched a QB competition between Allen and Nathan Peterman and thought Peterman won.

 

If you want to say he groomed defensive backs like Christian Benford or Jordan Poyer, be my guest, but he is borderline clueless when it comes to QB utilization. He has been trying for years to turn Allen into Ryan Tannehill, despite tons of evidence that Allen is at his best when the leash is off and they finally stop fretting about turnovers or balance on offense or anything else other than scoring points.

Edited 2 hours ago by T.E.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Seriously dude I respect you and your opinion I'm not one to discredit other people 

 

Yet it's a lazy take for anybody to think Josh Allen becomes Josh Allen on all 31 other franchises.. that's literally not how the NFL works ..  not even specifically you but if anybody thinks Josh is the best player in the world getting drafted by 31 other teams that's not how football works

 

It takes an organization to groom a quarterback.. John elway passed up on Josh not because he didn't think he had tons of talent.. but because he didn't think he would be able to harness all that talent and groom him 

 

Nobody's passing up Josh Allen 

 

Sean McDermott has been a very consistent presence in this organization... Bill belichick had a huge part in grooming Tom Brady but he's not in offensive guy 

 

But he is a professional coach 

 

Sean has helped groom Josh into the steady Superstar we see today...

 

To think he would be this level on 31 other teams is not true and if it was he would have been the first overall pick guaranteed 

 

It could be true that he has tremendous talent and is the best player in the world but also that the bills helped groom him

 

 

This has been addressed over and over 

 

It's SUCH a retelling of history that the Bills 'groomed' Allen when what they actually did was throw him into an absolutely pitiful QB room and were forced to play him after McDermott's Peterman experiment predictably capsized. His weapons were even worse than they are today and the oline was poor as well 

 

He succeeded in spite of McDermott and Beane, not because of them. I actually think it's easier to argue he'd have had MORE success had he been drafted to another team

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

This has been addressed over and over 

 

It's SUCH a retelling of history that the Bills 'groomed' Allen when what they actually did was throw him into an absolutely pitiful QB room and were forced to play him after McDermott's Peterman experiment predictably capsized. His weapons were even worse than they are today and the oline was poor as well 

 

He succeeded in spite of McDermott and Beane, not because of them. I actually think it's easier to argue he'd have had MORE success had he been drafted to another team

I'm on record for years as stating the best way to get a good quarterback is to sit them as long as possible 

 

Literally even first round picks used to sit for a time

 

Eli Manning was the number one pick and sat ... Philip Rivers was a top five pick and sat 

 

Again Sean didn't draft Peterman... But he did know that throwing Josh to the fire is never the correct call... We are lucky Josh survived it... That's more the history of the NFL

 

No offense dude I'm just never going to have a conversation with you again if you think he'd be better off on other franchises to start his career lol he could've been ruined by TONS of teams

 

Tom Brady would not have been Tom Brady on a 31 other teams 

 

Sorry man

 

The history of the league says where you get drafted and the coach you have determines way more than your own individual talent.. because there's tons of players with talent out the Ying Yang who don't reach that level and it's because circumstances

 

Tons of quarterbacks have had talent out the yin yang with good work ethics and flame out... Nobody is going to be successful on the Jets organization with how they've been structured for years 

 

They will ruin anybody

Edited 2 hours ago by Buffalo716

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm on record for years as stating the best way to get a good quarterback is to sit them as long as possible 

 

Literally even first round picks used to sit for a time

 

Eli Manning was the number one pick and sat ... Philip Rivers was a top five pick and sat 

 

Again Sean didn't draft Peterman... But he did know that throwing Josh to the fire is never the correct call... We are lucky Josh survived it... That's more the history of the NFL

 

No offense dude I'm just never going to have a conversation with you again if you think he'd be better off on other franchises lol

 

Tom Brady would not have been Tom Brady on a 31 other teams 

 

Sorry man

 

The history of the league says where you get drafted and the coach you have determines way more than your own individual talent.. because there's tons of players with talent out the Ying Yang who don't reach that level and it's because circumstances

 

Tons of quarterbacks have had talent out the yin yang with good work ethics and flame out... Nobody is going to be successful on the Jets organization with how they've been structured for years 

 

They will ruin anybody

😂😂What on earth

 

He definitely drafted Peterman 

He definitely threw rookie Allen into the middle a 47-3 week1 ass kicking 

 

Feel free to not have conversations w me, but get your facts straight first. Your argument is nonsense

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Like I said earlier in the thread I give McDermott credit for letting Allen win him the game. I don't mean that sarcastically. The best thing he and Beane can do moving forward is to build the team around Allen and get out of the way. He can gift them both a Hall of Fame legacy if they'll only let him. Some of McDermott's comments this year and his aggressiveness against Cincy give me hope that he's finally figured that out, and Beane goes as McDermott goes as far as I'm concerned.

 

This is something we've been discussing as far back as after the 2021 Divisional Round game and they've run it back or even doubled-down on the philosophy every year since then.  I still do not see McD and by connection Beane pivoting away from their basic operating strategy and abandoning how they see the game played.  Not when McD himself has been harping about running it better since 2020 ended.  Not when each UFA signing period goes defense first.  

 

One would think with this running game and putting so much into the defense they'd finally understand the way they see winning football is insufficient at key moments.  

 

One caveat...I don't see any team as dominant in the AFC and they well could advance if some things go their way.  Even then if they reach the SB, I agree the experiment in "complementary football" should end and they adjust to prioritizing the QB above everything else.   Anything's possible I suppose, but I'll believe that when I see it.  

[Billsfed1]

One thing I think people forget about too is Josh wasn’t Josh until his third year in the league.  So McDermott actually had average to below average quarterback play in his first three seasons as coach, but despite that had some winning seasons.

 

It’s another reason I don’t like the lazy take of “he has Allen”.  1/3 of his career to date he didn’t have super Josh.

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

This is something we've been discussing as far back as after the 2021 Divisional Round game and they've run it back or even doubled-down on the philosophy every year since then.  I still do not see McD and by connection Beane pivoting away from their basic operating strategy and abandoning how they see the game played.  Not when McD himself has been harping about running it better since 2020 ended.  Not when each UFA signing period goes defense first.  

 

Yeah I hear you. One reason I think this offseason will be different is the WGR rant shined a spotlight on the room. In retrospect I'm glad Beane did it, as stupid as it was. Before this year the national media wasn't paying much attention to the WR failings and the Bills were hiding behind elite offensive statistics. Now because of that rant everyone is paying attention and they can see that the emperor has no clothes. Games like this past week's where Allen has to pull a rabbit out of a hat over and over again just to keep them in it only makes the narrative louder. So out of self-awareness if nothing else they will HAVE to make a splash move next year. But hey, fool me a dozen times...

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I think you failed to see the parallel.

 

Mike McCarthy + Aaron Rodgers for their first 10 seasons missed the playoffs only one time. The first year Rodgers was starting.

 

Does that sound familiar?

 

McCarthy is fine. Good coach, sure. He’s nothing special. Neither is McDermott.  Rodgers was special. Josh is special.

A lot of these McD fans are whistling past the graveyard imo. 10 years from now, no one will admit to being a McD or Beane fan. Just like no one admits to being a big Marrone fan, or Rex Ryan fan or Tyrod Taylor fan.

 

McD and Beane are going to go down in history as our Pagano/Grigson. The shine of backing into the playoffs that one time with Tyrod and Kyle Williams will wear off eventually.

It's not a particularly subtle parallel.  I address it explicitly in my response.

 

Most coaches aren't anything special.  McVay is special.  Belichick was special until the game passed him by.

 

McDermott is very good, though, and plenty capable of winning a Superbowl if the cards line up right.  Welcome to football; that's how it is for the 30 to 31 out of 32 teams that aren't a dynasty at any given point in time.

57 minutes ago, T.E. said:

LMAO, McDermott watched a QB competition between Allen and Nathan Peterman and thought Peterman won.

 

If you want to say he groomed defensive backs like Christian Benford or Jordan Poyer, be my guest, but he is borderline clueless when it comes to QB utilization. He has been trying for years to turn Allen into Ryan Tannehill, despite tons of evidence that Allen is at his best when the leash is off and they finally stop fretting about turnovers or balance on offense or anything else other than scoring points.

Peterman did win, though.  And very clearly so.  Unfortunately, live bullets in the NFL are way faster than the preseason version and Peterman doesn't have the ability to make that jump.  There's a reason he's had a long and (relatively) lucrative career as a #3 QB, though.  The man has made like 8 million dollars to hold a clipboard and be excellent in the QB room despite not having the physical talent to see meaningful play at the pro level.

[GoBills808]

39 minutes ago, Billsfed1 said:

One thing I think people forget about too is Josh wasn’t Josh until his third year in the league.  So McDermott actually had average to below average quarterback play in his first three seasons as coach, but despite that had some winning seasons.

 

It’s another reason I don’t like the lazy take of “he has Allen”.  1/3 of his career to date he didn’t have super Josh.

😂😂Red Ryan didn't have Super Josh for 3/3 of his career and he still managed the same W/L as McDermott 

[Avisan]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂Red Ryan didn't have Super Josh for 3/3 of his career and he still managed the same W/L as McDermott 

Rex Ryan was coach of the Bills for two years and managed a 8-8 and 7-8 season (fired before wek 17) following a 9-7 Doug Marrone season.  McDermott was 9-7, 6-10 (5-6 with Allen playing and winning literally every game that Allen managed a passer rating above 80), and 10-6 in his first three years.  He was already above .500 before Allen became a consistently good QB.

 

Tyrod Taylor provided the Bills significantly better QB play than Allen by both passer rating and QBR prior to Allen's 2020 season, and the 2017 season with Tyrod was when he had become pretty figured out and started to decline both statistically and by the eyeball test.

 

TL;DR-- Your statement is factually incorrect.

[T.E.]

5 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Rex Ryan was coach of the Bills for two years and managed a 8-8 and 7-8 season (fired before wek 17) following a 9-7 Doug Marrone season.  McDermott was 9-7, 6-10 (5-6 with Allen playing and winning literally every game that Allen managed a passer rating above 80), and 10-6 in his first three years.  He was already above .500 before Allen became a consistently good QB.

 

Tyrod Taylor provided the Bills significantly better QB play than Allen by both passer rating and QBR prior to Allen's 2020 season, and the 2017 season with Tyrod was when he had become pretty figured out and started to decline both statistically and by the eyeball test.

 

TL;DR-- Your statement is factually incorrect.

Rex Ryan won road playoff games against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning with Mark Sanchez as his QB. McDermott still hasn't won on the road in the postseason with Josh Allen.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Rex Ryan was coach of the Bills for two years and managed a 8-8 and 7-8 season (fired before wek 17) following a 9-7 Doug Marrone season.  McDermott was 9-7, 6-10 (5-6 with Allen playing and winning literally every game that Allen managed a passer rating above 80), and 10-6 in his first three years.  He was already above .500 before Allen became a consistently good QB.

 

Tyrod Taylor provided the Bills significantly better QB play than Allen by both passer rating and QBR prior to Allen's 2020 season, and the 2017 season with Tyrod was when he had become pretty figured out and started to decline both statistically and by the eyeball test.

 

TL;DR-- Your statement is factually incorrect.

I know the records. I was mostly interested n whether someone would rush out 2 games better than Rex Ryan and Tyrod Taylor as their defense😂😂

[Avisan]

19 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Rex Ryan won road playoff games against Tom Brady and Peyton Manning with Mark Sanchez as his QB. McDermott still hasn't won on the road in the postseason with Josh Allen.

Yeah, he had a pretty rock-solid defense at the time and Sanchez played to his max potential for a hot minute.

 

Then his defense got figured out and he's a blowhard that couldn't adjust.  So now he's out of the league.

19 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I know the records. I was mostly interested n whether someone would rush out 2 games better than Rex Ryan and Tyrod Taylor as their defense😂😂

Better team performance despite functionally a tank year where they instead made the playoffs and worse quarterbacking than his predecessors is a pretty reasonable indication of higher quality, yes.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, constantly making provably wrong statements or (allegedly) going to all of the effort to know the correct information and then posting deliberately wrong things so that you can... gotcha somebody that points out that you're saying things that aren't true?

 

"I was only pretending to not know what I'm talking about" isn't the gotcha you think it is, chief

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Yeah, he had a pretty rock-solid defense at the time and Sanchez played to his max potential for a hot minute.

 

Then his defense got figured out and he's a blowhard that couldn't adjust.  So now he's out of the league.

Better team performance despite functionally a tank year where they instead made the playoffs and worse quarterbacking than his predecessors is a pretty reasonable indication of higher quality, yes.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, constantly making provably wrong statements or (allegedly) going to all of the effort to know the correct information and then posting deliberately wrong things so that you can... gotcha somebody that points out that you're saying things that aren't true?

 

"I was only pretending to not know what I'm talking about" isn't the gotcha you think it is, chief

It's all in fun. Besides, McDermott isn't going anywhere. You should be happy!