Keon drops 60 in Damar's celebrity basktball gam

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t a pure defensive guy. He was a tremendous passer.  He also averaged over 1.25 3’s per playoff game. He wasn’t a great shooter by any means, but he hit clutch shots.   He was a key to 4 championships and a dynasty. Without him, they probably win none.  I watched every game over those years (as Harrison Barnes was my guy).  His defense and leadership in crunch time crucial to them winning titles. 
 

Tony Parker and Manu are in the HoF because they were instrumental in winning championships.
 

draymond will be in.  

Manu could have started on 29 teams across the league and was a real Superstar .. he selflessly came off the bench for pop

 

I remember long-haired manu at 26-27 years old Euro stepping and dunking on 7-footers 

 

Draymond is absolutely phenomenal but I still think he's even a step below a guy like Manu ginobili

 

But manu is a HoFr.. so I think Draymond is close 

Edited 5 hours ago by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Manu could have started on 29 teams across the league and was a real Superstar .. he selflessly came off the bench for pop

 

I remember long-haired manu at 26-27 years old Euro stepping and dunking on 7-footers 

 

Draymond is absolutely phenomenal but I still think he's even a step below a guy like Manu ginobili

 

But manu is a HoFr.. so I think Draymond is close 

Manu was great- I don’t disagree.  A better player than Draymond.   But Draymond will be in.  I have no doubt.  

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

My point that in Kerr's era, Green doesn't get in.  The bar is lower.  Green played  on a dynasty,  that's the most powerful item on his CV.  Solid defender. But the Warriors win all those rings with a lesser defender in his spot.  As for a facilitator, if he had his 5.6 assists, 2.3 TOs, and 8.9 points on the Knicks, Pelicans, Jazz, etc, he's not a HOFer. 

 

If almost 40% of the shots your opponent is taking are 3's, there's really not much defense to be played.  OKC was trounced in game 6 not because of a suffocating Indy Defense. It's because they made 27% of their 30 3 pointers.  That 91 points despite 30 3 point shots.  Unwatchable--how can you conclude you are watching a much higher skill level??

 

Teams take twice as many 3 pointer than they did even 17-18 years ago--but they are no better at it.   Transition game is cross half court, pull up and launch a 3.  So Offensive rebounds are down.  There's not the post up inside game anymore,  and if guys drive to the basket, then offense do so with impunity as there is little physical  enforcement in the lane--fouls called are down 35% from the Celts/Lakers heyday (yet the flops and whining for calls are at an all time high). 

 

All this science and training and youth game playing...and you still have a 5 team division without a winning record.  An higher overall skill level of player distributed around the league with mostly similar budgets, this should not happen.  5 teams with less than 25 wins.  In 1985, there was 1.  1995 there were 4.   Given an overall significant increase in size, speed and skill, shouldn't the wins be more evenly distributed, i.e. fewer awful teams? All boats lifted? 

I disagree. End

[Sierra Foothills]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

The game has changed to where it's almost unrecognizable.  No defense.  Incessant flopping and begging.  Fundamentals are gone---traveling and carries are allowed parts of the game now. Worst of all, the 3 point play is the basis of every offense.  20 years ago, 17% of teams shots were 3's.  Now every team is over 30%--the average 34%!  And they aren't better at it.  This was perfectly displayed in Game 1 of the Knicks/Celtics game.  Celts took 60 3's.....and hit 15 of them.  It's unwatchable.

 

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

If almost 40% of the shots your opponent is taking are 3's, there's really not much defense to be played.  OKC was trounced in game 6 not because of a suffocating Indy Defense. It's because they made 27% of their 30 3 pointers.  That 91 points despite 30 3 point shots.  Unwatchable--how can you conclude you are watching a much higher skill level??

 

Teams take twice as many 3 pointer than they did even 17-18 years ago--but they are no better at it.   Transition game is cross half court, pull up and launch a 3.  So Offensive rebounds are down.  There's not the post up inside game anymore,  and if guys drive to the basket, then offense do so with impunity as there is little physical  enforcement in the lane--fouls called are down 35% from the Celts/Lakers heyday (yet the flops and whining for calls are at an all time high). 

 

All this science and training and youth game playing...and you still have a 5 team division without a winning record.  An higher overall skill level of player distributed around the league with mostly similar budgets, this should not happen.  5 teams with less than 25 wins.  In 1985, there was 1.  1995 there were 4.   Given an overall significant increase in size, speed and skill, shouldn't the wins be more evenly distributed, i.e. fewer awful teams? All boats lifted? 

 

This is my last basketball post in this topic... I don't want to hijack anymore.

 

To make the playoffs and advance in the NBA, teams absolutely have to play defense and to your point about 3 pointers, defenses know they have to defend the arc so they have more court to defend. If a shooter is left open from the arc, defenders have to closeout on the shooter leaving the entire team vulnerable to a drive. Even if the ball handler isn't someone who finishes at the rim, on a closeout play the shooter has the opportunity to exploit the mid-range.

 

Besides having to be able to defend on the ball, teams now have to also be proficient at switch and help defense.

 

Team defense is much more important and coordinated today than it was in the days of man to man defenses.

 

JMO.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Manu was great- I don’t disagree.  A better player than Draymond.   But Draymond will be in.  I have no doubt.  

I disagree. End

feelings…

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

feelings…

I can’t stand Draymond.  i was a warriors fan, but he didn’t get along with my boy Barnes.  I can’t stand that he cost Barnes another title by hitting LeBron in the nuts.   Draymond does some of the dumbest things.  I just don’t let my feelings taint my view of him.  He’s was such integral piece of that teams success, he has to make it.  His accomplishments altered basketball history by way of adding another dynasty to nba history 

Edited 2 hours ago by NewEra

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

This is my last basketball post in this topic... I don't want to hijack anymore.

 

To make the playoffs and advance in the NBA, teams absolutely have to play defense and to your point about 3 pointers, defenses know they have to defend the arc so they have more court to defend. If a shooter is left open from the arc, defenders have to closeout on the shooter leaving the entire team vulnerable to a drive. Even if the ball handler isn't someone who finishes at the rim, on a closeout play the shooter has the opportunity to exploit the mid-range.

 

Besides having to be able to defend on the ball, teams now have to also be proficient at switch and help defense.

 

Team defense is much more important and coordinated today than it was in the days of man to man defenses.

 

JMO.

 

 

 

 I respect your opinion.  

 

But given the low success rate of the 3 pointer (38% of shots taken this season by all teams were 3's and only 36% of those were successful) these guys don't defend the arc like you think--why would they?  With the way guys kick out and get cheap 3 free throws or 4 point plays...why would they.  Sure the might guard the best 3 point shooters, but in the history of the 3 point shot, only 5 players have shot over .500.  There's a bunch of guys with over 400 attempts who have made less 1/3 of them.  Why step up on them?  Fair better value play is get in the lane for the defensive rebound.  And this is what you see--as I showed above, offensive rebounds are up and defensive rebs up.  This is all easily seen watching the game.  The 3 point shot has relaxed, not increased defensive requirements.  Indy could have simply watched the Thunder chuck up another 30 3's and still won, given how badly they were missing. 

 

Alos, Free Throw attempts have dropped by almost 27% since the mid 80's----it's not the refs are "just letting them play", it's that there's much less tough D in the paint.  Guy drive to the hoop unmolested.

 

I understand everyone wants to draw a straight line from "kids play more, training is better", etc. to "the league has more talent top to bottom today".  But the data (and observation) don't support this conclusion.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I can’t stand Draymond.  i was a warriors fan, but he didn’t get along with my boy Barnes.  I can’t stand that he cost Barnes another title by hitting LeBron in the nuts.   Draymond does some of the dumbest things.  I just don’t let my feelings taint my view of him.  He’s was such integral piece of that teams success, he has to make it.  His accomplishments altered basketball history by way of adding another dynasty to nba history 

 

My son  and I were at that nut punch game.  So stupid.  I would have tried to trade his selfish azz after that.  Would have won the Finals they won without him.

 

Kerr was as integral to the Bulls dynasty.  One of the best  3 point shooters of his day. 6th MOTY twice. Championship winning shot '97. Played all 82 games 4 of 5 seasons with the Bulls. 3 rings.  He's not getting in. 

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

My son  and I were at that nut punch game.  So stupid.  I would have tried to trade his selfish azz after that.  Would have won the Finals they won without him.

 

Kerr was as integral to the Bulls dynasty.  One of the best  3 point shooters of his day. 6th MOTY twice. Championship winning shot '97. Played all 82 games 4 of 5 seasons with the Bulls. 3 rings.  He's not getting in. 

Ok-  you’re obviously not interested in having a real conversation.  
 

6th man of the year twice vs 5 1st team all defense, 4 2nd team all defense, all star x4, DPOY, all nba 2nd team and 3rd team x1.    
 

please.