Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: In regards to universal healthcare I implore you to be against it. In any society where something important does not carry a financial incentive to be "better" it will ultimately stagnate at best and likely regress. 1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said: So you would rather everyone get poor care than some get great care? You would rather have someone else decide your healthcare needs than do it yourself? In my area we have about 20 dentists of which 4 are top notch, 10ish are good, and the rest are garbage. I pay extra to stay with my top notch guy because I don't want deal with the garbage, why is that a problem to you? it's a problem for several reasons. CEO's are making medical decisions. Both in clinics/hospitals and the big buildings in Connecticut that house insurance companies. It's wasted money going for profit that should be going for care.It's a big reason the US pays the most for healthcare (and drugs) and has low tier outcomes on many measures. The other reason is availability of care for the working poor. Often they just go without. Finally, the current system is diluting talent. We now have midlevels with online degrees acting as doctors. Guess what the impetus for that is? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 5 hours ago, redtail hawk said: it's a problem for several reasons. CEO's are making medical decisions. Both in clinics/hospitals and the big buildings in Connecticut that house insurance companies. It's wasted money going for profit that should be going for care.It's a big reason the US pays the most for healthcare (and drugs) and has low tier outcomes on many measures. The other reason is availability of care for the working poor. Often they just go without. Finally, the current system is diluting talent. We now have midlevels with online degrees acting as doctors. Guess what the impetus for that is? So your solution is to have politicians who you can't sue make medical decisions, have politicians make money off our healthcare, and make sure everyone has limited availability? Specifically your issue seems to be that my choice to pay extra for the good dentist benefits someone at the insurance company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said: So your solution is to have politicians who you can't sue make medical decisions, have politicians make money off our healthcare, and make sure everyone has limited availability? Specifically your issue seems to be that my choice to pay extra for the good dentist benefits someone at the insurance company. you can't sue CEO's or insurance companies. They say they make financial, not medical decisions concerning care. But there are effectively making medical decisions if they don't pay. My point re concierge care is that tiered care will help sway public opinion towards universal care as it becomes more obvious and it becomes more difficult fort he average person to get quality care. you seemed to have missed the point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 2 hours ago, redtail hawk said: you can't sue CEO's or insurance companies. They say they make financial, not medical decisions concerning care. But there are effectively making medical decisions if they don't pay. My point re concierge care is that tiered care will help sway public opinion towards universal care as it becomes more obvious and it becomes more difficult fort he average person to get quality care. you seemed to have missed the point. So you agree with me? Are you just playing devil's advocate? Not sure if you are arguing for universal healthcare or simply trying to point out that idiots believe it will make healthcare better in our country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Orlando Tim said: So your solution is to have politicians who you can't sue make medical decisions, have politicians make money off our healthcare, and make sure everyone has limited availability? Specifically your issue seems to be that my choice to pay extra for the good dentist benefits someone at the insurance company. We are born with the right to vote for politicians are we not? And we can vote them out every two, four and six years, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 On 1/26/2023 at 11:35 AM, redtail hawk said: so refute the article, chief. is the math wrong? No, the math appears correct- but what’s important to remember is that the GOP ran 2 terrible candidates against Obama…And Trump won 1 of 2 presidential elections recently… On top of that, a higher percentage of black and Latino voters seem to be voting for the GOP than normal, due to Democrat woke politics (ie Florida the biggest example)…So, i don’t really see demographics playing as big a role as the article would like to think…And again, it’s a Left leaning publication so they are likely going to try to make race a bigger deal than it is imo… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said: We are born with the right to vote for politicians are we not? And we can vote them out every two, four and six years, no? So how is his solution better than mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 9 hours ago, Orlando Tim said: So how is his solution better than mine? https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/ 27.5 million Americans say hi...or something less nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/ 27.5 million Americans say hi...or something less nice. Obamacare expanded Medicaid and made it available to a lot more people, why are the uninsured not on Medicaid? It actually is the one thing Obamacare did that was proper. Even the report you cite mentions that many of the uninsured are here illegally and then mentions cost. I can't speak for every state but in Florida if you make about 50k per year then insurance is $25 a month for your family. That is reasonable for anyone. I do notice all your solutions include taking away something that works for 90% of people to give to a few, so I doubt we will ever agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 I’ll trade universal health care for a flat tax. Anyone want to make that trade? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I’ll trade universal health care for a flat tax. Anyone want to make that trade? No, but I do want a flat tax or a national sales tax vs current income tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said: Obamacare expanded Medicaid and made it available to a lot more people, why are the uninsured not on Medicaid? It actually is the one thing Obamacare did that was proper. Even the report you cite mentions that many of the uninsured are here illegally and then mentions cost. I can't speak for every state but in Florida if you make about 50k per year then insurance is $25 a month for your family. That is reasonable for anyone. I do notice all your solutions include taking away something that works for 90% of people to give to a few, so I doubt we will ever agree granted, we will never agree. but 'i'll still challenge the premise that it works for 90% of the people: https://www.thebalancemoney.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729 btw, if anyone wants to help people in their community with medical debt, this is a great org to work with. I have experience working with them for my community (heard about them on NPR). https://ripmedicaldebt.org Edited January 29, 2023 by redtail hawk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 13 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: No, but I do want a flat tax or a national sales tax vs current income tax You have to be willing to give up something in a negotiation. I’m willing to make that trade. If everyone wants these ‘free’ services from their country, then EVERYONE has to pay for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 On 1/26/2023 at 12:06 PM, BillStime said: He can't... lolz. Demographics are not on the cults side, and they know it. Young people showed in record numbers and will continue to do so... Americans and young people specially, are tired of the MAGA fringe. It's a dying party and they know it - just look at their desperation. Yup. Pretty much. The policy platform of the GOP is firmly rooted in Reaganomics and Christian nationalism, both of which have become deeply unpopular in America and particularly among Gen Z’ers and Millenials. It’s what polling data confirms and what the 2022 election results indicate. I assume the GOP is banking on the idea that Americans typically become more politically conservative as they age. Millenials, however, are strongly bucking any supposed historical trend to that effect. Such is life in late-stage neoliberalism, with a little bit of Dobbs v Jackson sprinkled in for good measure. In order to remain electorally viable, the GOP now focuses almost exclusively on Democratic Party corruption, real or imagined. That and some good old-fashioned LGBTQ bigotry for the angry Fox News viewership. Anything, basically, to avoid having to articulate palatable solutions to well-defined problems that are of any practical relevance to Americans. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 1 hour ago, redtail hawk said: granted, we will never agree. but 'i'll still challenge the premise that it works for 90% of the people: https://www.thebalancemoney.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729 btw, if anyone wants to help people in their community with medical debt, this is a great org to work with. I have experience working with them for my community (heard about them on NPR). https://ripmedicaldebt.org No thanks. I already subsidize others "free" healthcare via exorbitant monthly premiums with crazy deductibles that is more than my mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 49 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: No thanks. I already subsidize others "free" healthcare via exorbitant monthly premiums with crazy deductibles that is more than my mortgage. so the current system is working well for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 Just now, redtail hawk said: so the current system is working well for you? Sure. If paying ridiculous premiums with 20k deductibles for what amounts to a catastrophic health insurance plan, so that others can have "free" coverage is what you want to categorize as "working well". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: Sure. If paying ridiculous premiums with 20k deductibles for what amounts to a catastrophic health insurance plan, so that others can have "free" coverage is what you want to categorize as "working well". uh huh. So wouldn't a Canadian type system be better? Does this make you satisfied with your premiums? The 80/20 Rule generally requires insurance companies to spend at least 80% of the money they take in from premiums on health care costs and quality improvement activities. The other 20% can go to administrative, overhead, and marketing costs. The 80/20 rule is sometimes known as Medical Loss Ratio, or MLR. Rate Review & the 80/20 Rule | HealthCare.gov Edited January 29, 2023 by redtail hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 29, 2023 Share Posted January 29, 2023 27 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: uh huh. So wouldn't a Canadian type system be better? Does this make you satisfied with your premiums? The 80/20 Rule generally requires insurance companies to spend at least 80% of the money they take in from premiums on health care costs and quality improvement activities. The other 20% can go to administrative, overhead, and marketing costs. The 80/20 rule is sometimes known as Medical Loss Ratio, or MLR. Rate Review & the 80/20 Rule | HealthCare.gov It all Russian disinformation man! How about the latest episode of the Twitter files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted January 29, 2023 Author Share Posted January 29, 2023 11 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said: It all Russian disinformation man! How about the latest episode of the Twitter files? uh huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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