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Lean and Mean, or No? [thread about Bills Defense]


Shaw66
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7 hours ago, P Riv said:

We're not built for smash mouth teams, but we are built to slow or stop the best passing offenses in the league (KC, TB, etc.).  If we ever find ourselves behind a smash mouth type of team, we might be SOL (Titans come to mind).  

We'll get a tough test right out of the gate in week 1.  

 

Smashmouth like the Ravens?

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My biggest concern and frustration for that matter on D is how the regime continues to disregard the secondary with a quality CB2. 

 

This has evolved into a Pass Happy league and yes, the Bills are a big part of that movement. 

 

Prioritizing needs.

 

They love their D line. Addison, Jefferson, Butler. They were underwhelming at best. Epenesa last year. Rousseau and Basham this year.

 

Rush game lacking? 3rd Rd Singletary, 3rd Rd. Moss. No team feared that combo. Not good enough? Ok, sign Matt Breida. 

 

But immediate need at CB? *crickets*......

 

 

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I often fall back to what the Patriots did.    The Patriots succeeded on defense without a lot of great players.   They succeeded by being really smart, really well prepared, and really intense.  They'd have a shut-down corner, and maybe a really good linebacker.   And for a while they had Wilfork.  But that defense was a good year after year, and as the personnel changed, the defense was good.   

 

I think McDermott believes he can do something similar.   They are going to be smart, determined, and aggressive.  

 

We'll see if it works. 

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7 hours ago, P Riv said:

We're not built for smash mouth teams, but we are built to slow or stop the best passing offenses in the league (KC, TB, etc.).  If we ever find ourselves behind a smash mouth type of team, we might be SOL (Titans come to mind).  

We'll get a tough test right out of the gate in week 1.  

 

Why do you think we'll get a "tough test right out of the gate" in Week 1 vs Pittsburgh?

 

Pittsburgh was last in the league in rush yards last season, and 28th in attempts meaning they were beyond worst.

 

What's changed this season to make them "smashmouth" (honest question, I dunno)?

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21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

What's changed this season to make them "smashmouth" (honest question, I dunno)?

I agree.  I doubt they will ever be known as smashmouth.  Just tough and prepared.  Never out of position.  Not missing tackles. Just solid and intense, always fighting. 

 

Scrappy.  

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I hate to say it but this version of the Bills reminds me an awful lot of the Super Bowl era Bills. Back then we got pushed around and beat up by the AFC East four straight years. I really want our defense to get tougher at all three levels but I’m not convinced we’re built for that. And although we’re no longer the K Gun offense, this is about as close to high powered (not smash mouth) as we’ve seen since back then.

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35 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I hate to say it but this version of the Bills reminds me an awful lot of the Super Bowl era Bills. Back then we got pushed around and beat up by the AFC East four straight years. I really want our defense to get tougher at all three levels but I’m not convinced we’re built for that. And although we’re no longer the K Gun offense, this is about as close to high powered (not smash mouth) as we’ve seen since back then.

Good comparison. I think this defense will be tougher.  This defense is going to be a well organized gang. 

Edited by Shaw66
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2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why do you think we'll get a "tough test right out of the gate" in Week 1 vs Pittsburgh?

 

Pittsburgh was last in the league in rush yards last season, and 28th in attempts meaning they were beyond worst.

 

What's changed this season to make them "smashmouth" (honest question, I dunno)?

 

What changed?  The Steelers have been talking about getting back to the run game, balance, etc. all offseason.  Then they drafted Najee Harris with pick 24, 6'2' 230lbs, 4.45 sec 40. type of guy.  I'd say their planning to run it, a lot.   There's that and also the fact that they don't lack talent and were averaging over 30 points a game before injuries, etc. caught up to them after starting 11-0.  

 

Edited by P Riv
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I think based on our first 2 draft pics, we will be able to do anything we want on that line at any given time.. Offensive lines will have a harder time game planning the Bills and because of that... I think we will be way better on defense this year... Everything starts on the line and filters backwards... both sides of the line..

 

Domino effect

 

Our line will be better

Our LBS will look better

Our CB's won't have to cover forever

We wont have to Blitz as much

 

Making this defense way more efficient, prepared, in better position for tackling... hit the gaps better... It all starts at the line..

 

I CANT WAIT for football this year..

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53 minutes ago, P Riv said:

What changed?  The Steelers have been talking about getting back to the run game, balance, etc. all offseason.  Then they drafted Najee Harris with pick 24, 6'2' 230lbs, 4.45 sec 40. type of guy.  I'd say their planning to run it, a lot.   There's that and also the fact that they don't lack talent and were averaging over 30 points a game before injuries, etc. caught up to them after starting 11-0. 

 

Najee Harris is a very promising rookie.  6'2", 230 - He might be the next Derrick Henry. 

What did the Steelers do for their OL?  Do they have a top run blocking OL now?

 

Maybe they can run it now, maybe they can't, but the Steelers got to 11-0 by passing the hell out of the ball last season

They're smashmouth now when they prove they're smashmouth

 

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2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I think based on our first 2 draft pics, we will be able to do anything we want on that line at any given time.. Offensive lines will have a harder time game planning the Bills and because of that... I think we will be way better on defense this year... Everything starts on the line and filters backwards... both sides of the line..

 

Domino effect

 

Our line will be better

Our LBS will look better

Our CB's won't have to cover forever

We wont have to Blitz as much

 

Making this defense way more efficient, prepared, in better position for tackling... hit the gaps better... It all starts at the line..

 

I CANT WAIT for football this year..

Not so sure the draftees will have that kind if impact, but that is the idea,

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9 hours ago, P Riv said:

The whole Defense concerns me, personnel, scheme, all of it.  We have a championship caliber offense and special teams, but the D is our handicap.  This article is telling: https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/scoring-defense-the-key-stat-for-super-bowl-contention

The severely overmatched Patriots held Mahomes and Co. to 17 points last year and probably would have won with even decent QB play.  All because of how they played the Chiefs offense from a scheme standpoint.  Why can't we crack that code???? https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/recap/NFL_20201005_NE@KC/

That and they ran the ball all over them...  

 

 

It wasn't "all because of how they played the Chiefs offense from a scheme standpoint." That surely was a factor, but so was the fact that they did a good job rushing the passer, that Mahomes had a bad game, that Watkins fumbled a ball away in the red zone ...

 

The Chiefs didn't appear to have much of a sense of urgency and were noticeably off in this game that was delayed by a COVID outbreak. When they needed points near the end, they got them, and they had no reason to fear that the Pats were going to score enough to win. The Chiefs were ahead the whole game, though the Pats kept it close.

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6 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  I doubt they will ever be known as smashmouth.  Just tough and prepared.  Never out of position.  Not missing tackles. Just solid and intense, always fighting. 

 

Scrappy.  

 

I was asking P Riv about his description of the Steelers offense as "smashmouth" and a good opening day test for our D.

 

While it's possible they may become "smashmouth" with a great run-it-down-your-throat run game, that's not who they were last season

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7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I hate to say it but this version of the Bills reminds me an awful lot of the Super Bowl era Bills. Back then we got pushed around and beat up by the AFC East four straight years. I really want our defense to get tougher at all three levels but I’m not convinced we’re built for that. And although we’re no longer the K Gun offense, this is about as close to high powered (not smash mouth) as we’ve seen since back then.

 

 

I think you have a fair comparison here.

 

Both were built to stop the pass first.

 

But that older D was really really small through the middle. They had no Star Lotulelei. Jeff Wright played on the nose for them ... at 274 pounds. Even for the time, that was small for any DT, and outright tiny for a 3-4 nose tackle. Wright was a penetrator more than a space eater.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It wasn't "all because of how they played the Chiefs offense from a scheme standpoint." That surely was a factor, but so was the fact that they did a good job rushing the passer, that Mahomes had a bad game, that Watkins fumbled a ball away in the red zone ...

 

The Chiefs didn't appear to have much of a sense of urgency and were noticeably off in this game that was delayed by a COVID outbreak. When they needed points near the end, they got them, and they had no reason to fear that the Pats were going to score enough to win. The Chiefs were ahead the whole game, though the Pats kept it close.

 

A sloppy game for sure, NE had 4 turnovers and were within one score early in the 4th.  Whenever they play Mahomes they are able to hold the Chiefs down better than anyone else (aside from TB obviously).  So what's the deal with that?  Its obviously scheme, so why can't we template it?

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Najee Harris is a very promising rookie.  6'2", 230 - He might be the next Derrick Henry. 

What did the Steelers do for their OL?  Do they have a top run blocking OL now?

 

Maybe they can run it now, maybe they can't, but the Steelers got to 11-0 by passing the hell out of the ball last season

They're smashmouth now when they prove they're smashmouth

 

 

They don't need to be smash mouth, just balanced.  Injuries derailed their momentum last year and we're getting them week one, so I expect they will be healthy and pretty potent offensively.  Thus the tough test on opening day comment.  

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5 minutes ago, P Riv said:

They don't need to be smash mouth, just balanced.  Injuries derailed their momentum last year and we're getting them week one, so I expect they will be healthy and pretty potent offensively.  Thus the tough test on opening day comment.  

 

I agree with the first sentences. 

 

You posted:

Quote

We're not built for smash mouth teams, but we are built to slow or stop the best passing offenses in the league (KC, TB, etc.).  If we ever find ourselves behind a smash mouth type of team, we might be SOL (Titans come to mind).  

We'll get a tough test right out of the gate in week 1.  

 

That appears to imply the Steelers would be a tough test because they're a "smash mouth type of team". 

 

My only point is that they weren't last year, they were heavily reliant on the passing game.  I agree they should be better balanced this year, and actually it's the balance that will make them a test.

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49 minutes ago, P Riv said:

 

A sloppy game for sure, NE had 4 turnovers and were within one score early in the 4th.  Whenever they play Mahomes they are able to hold the Chiefs down better than anyone else (aside from TB obviously).  So what's the deal with that?  Its obviously scheme, so why can't we template it?

 

It is intelligence.   Not if players or coaches but similar to military intelligence.  They know lots of little things from film study, legal and illegal, including tendencies of zebras.  Fortunately Director of Spying is retiring (supposedly) soon.

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2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

It is intelligence.   Not if players or coaches but similar to military intelligence.  They know lots of little things from film study, legal and illegal, including tendencies of zebras.  Fortunately Director of Spying is retiring (supposedly) soon.

 

Ya, what's his name, Ernie something... He was replaced by failed HC Patricia.  Maybe he sucks at Intel too.  

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