DOJ Investigating Bribery for Pardons Conspiracy

[WideNine]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-department-investigating-bribery-conspiracy-scheme-presidential-pardon-documents

 

 

[TBBills]

Why am I not surprised... Corruption breeds corruption.

[Tiberius]

Interesting on several levels. DOJ was doing its job under Barr. I bet once Biden is in office, they find tons of crap like this.

[WideNine]

18 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Interesting on several levels. DOJ was doing its job under Barr. I bet once Biden is in office, they find tons of crap like this.

 

If the evidence is solid it is hard to ignore, bury, or obfuscate like he did with the Mueller report without being found complicit in the crime itself.

 

Particularly when they clean house and put objective career law folks back on the DOJ payroll and in leadership roles.

 

Barr may start to distance himself from the Trump dumpster fire. He's not dumb, just an unethical POS.

 

I also think career law guys can smell a crook a mile away and Trump sets off every radar.

 

There are likely a lot of Jr and mid-level guys who would keep working cases even if they involve Trump. Kind of think Barr forced a kind of covert DOJ within the DOJ.

 

Just my guess seeing how there were guys resigning under protest all through his tenure there.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by WideNine

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

13 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

If the evidence is solid it is hard to ignore, bury, or obfuscate like he did with the Mueller report without being found complicit in the crime itself.

 

Particularly when they clean house and put objective career law folks back on the DOJ payroll and in leadership roles.

 

Barr may start to distance himself from the Trump dumpster fire. He's not dumb, just an unethical POS.

 

I also think career law guys can smell a crook a mile away and Trump sets off every radar.

 

There are likely a lot of Jr and mid-level guys who would keep working cases even if they involve Trump. Kind of think Barr forced a kind of covert DOJ within the DOJ.

 

Just my guess seeing how there were guys resigning under protest all through his tenure there.

 

 

 

This type of skullduggery, if true and if these anonymous sources (::yawn::) prove correct, it's egregious.  Everyone knows the presidential pardon process is as pure as the driven snow, with wrongs made right and no quid pro quo of any sort ever.

 

What concerns me is the precedent.  Soon, we'll have presidential candidates bribing highly 'educated' individuals by offering to wipe their personally-incurred college debt clean (as if by magic, and/or passing it on to someone else) in exchange for their vote. 

[Tiberius]

19 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This type of skullduggery, if true and if these anonymous sources (::yawn::) prove correct, it's egregious.  Everyone knows the presidential pardon process is as pure as the driven snow, with wrongs made right and no quid pro quo of any sort ever.

 

What concerns me is the precedent.  Soon, we'll have presidential candidates bribing highly 'educated' individuals by offering to wipe their personally-incurred college debt clean (as if by magic, and/or passing it on to someone else) in exchange for their vote. 

Same with tax cuts? Or is that different? 

[JaCrispy]

45 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Same with tax cuts? Or is that different? 

I would say it’s different...Funds for debt relief have to be taken from someone else...whereas taxes are taken from you...

 

So, if you are bribed with a tax cut, you are only getting back what is legally yours, anyway...On the flip side, when someone enters into a financial agreement (student loans) and is bribed with debt relief, those funds used to pay for said debt relief does not belong to you...

 

So, in that regard, I would say there is a difference...

Edited December 2, 2020 by JaCrispy

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

16 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Same with tax cuts? Or is that different? 

Well , it's only different in the sense that it's not anything like a tax cut at all.  

 

 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Well , it's only different in the sense that it's not anything like a tax cut at all.  

 

 

Still an offer of support. Same with Trump promising to keep those stupid give aways to the Iowa farmers for ethanol. 

 

Offer of brides is still illegal, though 

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

I would say it’s different...Funds for debt relief have to be taken from someone else...whereas taxes are taken from you...

 

So, if you are bribed with a tax cut, you are only getting back what is legally yours, anyway...On the flip side, when someone enters into a financial agreement (student loans) and is bribed with debt relief, those funds used to pay for said debt relief does not belong to you...

 

So, in that regard, I would say there is a difference...

is it "already theirs" if the money is still going to be spent? So I have to pay off the debt for the tax cuts to the wealthy? Twisted logic there, but ok. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Still an offer of support. Same with Trump promising to keep those stupid give aways to the Iowa farmers for ethanol. 

 

Offer of brides is still illegal, though 

is it "already theirs" if the money is still going to be spent? So I have to pay off the debt for the tax cuts to the wealthy? Twisted logic there, but ok. 

Illegal or not, if you're offering your bride, send pics! 

 

As for 'offer of support', people keeping a bit more their hard-earned money  is nothing at all like a promise to magically resolve debt that never should have been taken by saddling others with said debt.   One rewards hard work, the other rewards abject stupidity. 

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

Now, to clarify, this is only a scandal for Trump if the redacted person ends up being Flynn who he did pardon. It isnt the Presidents fault that someone donated a lot of money to his campaign, and then emailed his team saying they expected a pardon for that donation. And this DID happen. They DO have the emails.

 

The crime here, as it stands, is the attempt to make the bribe.

 

However, if the redacted party is Flynn, who WAS given a pardon, then this jumps to a whole new level.

 

My favorite part of this is that Joe Exotic, Tiger King, is also being investigated after allegedly spending $10,000 in Trump hotels thinking that would get him a pardon as well.

 

https://www.wusa9.com/video/entertainment/joe-exotic-tiger-king-netflix-president-trump-pardon-dc-trump-hotel/65-24c8b22f-f9f8-4c1c-94ce-9233867a7d94

[JaCrispy]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Still an offer of support. Same with Trump promising to keep those stupid give aways to the Iowa farmers for ethanol. 

 

Offer of brides is still illegal, though 

is it "already theirs" if the money is still going to be spent? So I have to pay off the debt for the tax cuts to the wealthy? Twisted logic there, but ok. 

A politician running on cutting taxes is not considered offering an illegal bribe...to think so is taking a major leap...

 

So here’s how it works...when you start a business or agree to provide services for wages, everything you gross is your money...whatever you net is your money minus what the government has taken from you...therefore, a tax cut is essentially the government taking less of your money...

 

There is no debt, specifically from tax cuts, because the funds are always there...There is only debt when the government chooses to spend money they do not have...and it is important to remember, government has no money unless they take it from you.

[shoshin]

Those who are quick to think this is an investigation of Trump area way out ahead of their skis. All we know is that there's an investigation into groups who wanted to buy pardons--not that anyone in the admin was complicit in accepting and acting on them. I do not believe Trump would do this--a few hundred thousand dollars aren't moving Trump's moral compass.

 

(Hell, the best way to ensure Trump would pardon Flynn was just for the left to constantly say that Trump doing so would be the worst thing he could do! Boom, saved bribe risk.) 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Those who are quick to think this is an investigation of Trump area way out ahead of their skis. All we know is that there's an investigation into groups who wanted to buy pardons--not that anyone in the admin was complicit in accepting and acting on them.

 

Absolutely.

 

Quote

I do not believe Trump would do this--a few hundred thousand dollars aren't moving Trump's moral compass.

 

Here's where you lose me. Trump has no moral compass other than getting himself as much money as possible. He'd absolutely sell anyone and anything out for even a few thousand dollars.

 

I dont think this thing made it as far as Trump tho. The only way it blows back on him is if it was Flynn, which I dont think it was.

[shoshin]

7 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Here's where you lose me. Trump has no moral compass other than getting himself as much money as possible. He'd absolutely sell anyone and anything out for even a few thousand dollars.

 

 

He just made 170M off donors "legally," and has huge paychecks coming as he leaves office from more donors and other avenues. When OANN or News-whatever rebrand as Trump News Network, that'll make him a fortune.

 

He doesn't need the risk of pardon bribes. And again, getting Trump to pardon someone or do anything is easy. Start any sentence, "You know what will make liberals on Twitter crazy? If you did this: ______." And voila, done. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by shoshin

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

He doesn't need the risk of pardon bribes.

 

$170M doesnt even pay off half of his debt. And just because he doesnt need to, doesnt mean he WONT. He'll chase down every penny he can.

[Tiberius]

19 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

A politician running on cutting taxes is not considered offering an illegal bribe...to think so is taking a major leap...

 

 

Agreed. And politicians trying to win votes by saying they will spend my tax dollars on a stupid and useless wall isn't a bribe either. 

 

Offering to sell pardons for favors is a crime, though. 

34 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Illegal or not, if you're offering your bride, send pics! 

 

As for 'offer of support', people keeping a bit more their hard-earned money  is nothing at all like a promise to magically resolve debt that never should have been taken by saddling others with said debt.   One rewards hard work, the other rewards abject stupidity. 

Are you not trying to excuse Trump's possible criminal act by comparing it to a campaign promise? Seems like that to me. 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Agreed. And politicians trying to win votes by saying they will spend my tax dollars on a stupid and useless wall isn't a bribe either. 

 

Offering to sell pardons for favors is a crime, though. 

Are you not trying to excuse Trump's possible criminal act by comparing it to a campaign promise? Seems like that to me. 

 

 

Well, if it seems to you that I am not trying to excuse something, we agree.  Thank you Tibsy. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Well, if it seems to you that I am not trying to excuse something, we agree.  Thank you Tibsy. 

Oops, try to. Not, "not trying to." 

 

So back to not agreeing, lol 

 

😎

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

My favorite part of this is that Joe Exotic, Tiger King, is also being investigated after allegedly spending $10,000 in Trump hotels thinking that would get him a pardon as well.

 

https://www.wusa9.com/video/entertainment/joe-exotic-tiger-king-netflix-president-trump-pardon-dc-trump-hotel/65-24c8b22f-f9f8-4c1c-94ce-9233867a7d94

 

No one wants to talk about Joe Exotic jumping in the mix with his dumbass plan? Cmon, thats hilarious no matter where you land on the political spectrum!

[WideNine]

I readily admit guilt regarding speculation with this news report, but where Teflon Don is concerned I expect him to act like a mob boss trading illegal "favors".

 

Did some digging and the redacted memo here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/doj-pardon-investigation-court-filing/index.html

 

They mention a court motion for District of Columbia that appears to be this:

https://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/In_re_Grand_Jury_Investigation_19-15_Memorandum_Opinion_ECF_No_45.pdf

 

This motion deals with a "target" that had violated FARA and in its fine print at the bottom of the documents it mentions the law firm in question as Skadden.

 

Manafort was a partner of Skadden:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-17/skadden-law-firm-to-pay-4-6-million-to-u-s-over-ukraine-work

 

 

Not sure if I connected the dots or not - but it was fun trying.

Edited December 2, 2020 by WideNine

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

He just made 170M off donors "legally," and has huge paychecks coming as he leaves office from more donors and other avenues. When OANN or News-whatever rebrand as Trump News Network, that'll make him a fortune.

 

He doesn't need the risk of pardon bribes. And again, getting Trump to pardon someone or do anything is easy. Start any sentence, "You know what will make liberals on Twitter crazy? If you did this: ______." And voila, done. 

Yet every huge criminal who gets caught already has tons of money... And they keep taking that risk for more.

Edited December 2, 2020 by TBBills

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

If the evidence is solid it is hard to ignore, bury, or obfuscate like he did with the Mueller report without being found complicit in the crime itself.

 

Particularly when they clean house and put objective career law folks back on the DOJ payroll and in leadership roles.

 

Barr may start to distance himself from the Trump dumpster fire. He's not dumb, just an unethical POS.

 

I also think career law guys can smell a crook a mile away and Trump sets off every radar.

 

There are likely a lot of Jr and mid-level guys who would keep working cases even if they involve Trump. Kind of think Barr forced a kind of covert DOJ within the DOJ.

 

Just my guess seeing how there were guys resigning under protest all through his tenure there.

 

 

 

 

My experience in public service on the state level leads me to agree with you.  Career civil servants in junior and middle levels of government are the people who make government agencies work.  They owe their loyalty to the state (or to the United States in the case of federal employees) not to a particular governor or POTUS.   The political appointees in high up the political food chain are the individuals beholden to the current office holder and who do the current office holder's bidding.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that untermenschen in the FBI, DHS, DOD etc have knowledge/evidence of wrong doing that they've collected/assembled and passed on to their superiors via emails that have been buried in those superiors' archived emails.   My guess is that the fear of what might come to light under a Biden administration is what is behind the discussions about pardons for the Baby Trumps and Crazy Rudy.

 

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

Now, to clarify, this is only a scandal for Trump if the redacted person ends up being Flynn who he did pardon. It isnt the Presidents fault that someone donated a lot of money to his campaign, and then emailed his team saying they expected a pardon for that donation. And this DID happen. They DO have the emails.

 

The crime here, as it stands, is the attempt to make the bribe.

 

However, if the redacted party is Flynn, who WAS given a pardon, then this jumps to a whole new level.

 

My favorite part of this is that Joe Exotic, Tiger King, is also being investigated after allegedly spending $10,000 in Trump hotels thinking that would get him a pardon as well.

 

https://www.wusa9.com/video/entertainment/joe-exotic-tiger-king-netflix-president-trump-pardon-dc-trump-hotel/65-24c8b22f-f9f8-4c1c-94ce-9233867a7d94

 

I think that if Flynn was the person who attempted to make this bribe, that his pardon is likely voided, and Trump may also be criminally liable for participating for granting it.

[WideNine]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

My experience in public service on the state level leads me to agree with you.  Career civil servants in junior and middle levels of government are the people who make government agencies work.  They owe their loyalty to the state (or to the United States in the case of federal employees) not to a particular governor or POTUS.   The political appointees in high up the political food chain are the individuals beholden to the current office holder and who do the current office holder's bidding.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that untermenschen in the FBI, DHS, DOD etc have knowledge/evidence of wrong doing that they've collected/assembled and passed on to their superiors via emails that have been buried in those superiors' archived emails.   My guess is that the fear of what might come to light under a Biden administration is what is behind the discussions about pardons for the Baby Trumps and Crazy Rudy.

 

 

I think that if Flynn was the person who attempted to make this bribe, that his pardon is likely voided, and Trump may also be criminally liable for participating for granting it.

 

 

See my post above where I followed the bread crumbs from the redacted Court records and they lead to motions that involve the Skadden law firm - if my follow the bread-crumbs is right we are looking at Manafort as the principle.