billsfan1959 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: I understand what you're saying, and given this didn't happen in a vacuum, it's NOT a crowd. It's a couple guys, they arrested the one and shoved the other. Please explain to me why they did not arrest both men? What part of protocol justified pushing this man given the lack of a crowd? If anything, he should have been the one most likely to be arrested. I also take exception to your assertion that the man clearly reached his right hand toward an officer's belt. He did not. He had his cell phone in his hand and clearly motioning with his hand around the officer. I don't have a problem with how the man received medical attention. There clearly was a plan in place and the lead officers were instructed not to break ranks while others attended. In this situation, I believe the officers did have the luxury to assess and simply arrest him after warning. Protocols need to change. I get that in other situations they may not and shoving people aside can be warranted. "It's ok because in other situations it would be ok" just doesn't cut it. People are sick of it. The officers are in crowd control formation and moving toward an area. It doesn't matter if they have encountered a crowd yet or not. And, whether there was a crowd at that point or not has no bearing on why they pushed the man. They pushed him because he placed himself in a position to be considered a threat. You might want to watch the video again. Not only did he reach his right hand toward the officer's belt, he did it twice. It doesn't matter if he had a cell phone in his hand or not. If you approach an officer, in any situation, much less this one, and get within 1-2 feet of him and reach your hand toward his belt, regardless of what you have in your hand, you will get the same response. As you should. When in the world did it ever become all right for a person to walk up to within 1-2 feet of an officer and reach toward that officer for any reason? He initiated it. He engaged in actions that resulted in him being pushed back. He stumbled and fell. As I said before, had he not stumbled and fallen and persisted, he would have been arrested as well. And no, officers in that situation do not have the luxury of taking the time to assess whether or not the man poses a real threat or not. Once he placed himself that close to officers and reached his hand in the direction of an officer's belt, he has to be assumed to be a risk. I won't bother to post situations in which police officers have been injured and killed because they didn't assume somebody getting that close to them posed a threat. I somehow don't think it would really matter to you. You are welcome to your opinion. Edited June 18, 2020 by billsfan1959 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: If you approach an officer, in any situation, much less this one, and get within 1-2 feet of him and reach your hand toward his belt, regardless of what you have in your hand, you will get the same response. As you should. When in the world did it ever become all right for a person to walk up to within 1-2 feet of an officer and reach toward that officer for any reason? and of course 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 26 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Not even in the ballpark of the situations I am talking about. Of course, you know that. Maybe one day you might actually add something substantive to a discussion. Until then, you just keep being you, Gary... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 47 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: If you approach an officer, in any situation, much less this one, and get within 1-2 feet of him and reach your hand toward his belt, regardless of what you have in your hand, you will get the same response. As you should. Thank god you're not training cops anymore. This is what is wrong with policing. in any situation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Thank god you're not training cops anymore. This is what is wrong with policing. in any situation Hey, next time you are walking down the street and see an officer, walk up to 1-2 feet of him/her and reach your hand toward his/her belt. Let us all know how it turns out.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Hey, next time you are walking down the street and see an officer, walk up to 1-2 feet of him/her and reach your hand toward his/her belt. I've shaken a cops hand before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: I've shaken a cops hand before. My guess it was after he agreed to let you go after that little restroom incident at the truckstop... You really are sooo adorable when you try to participate in adult conversations 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: in any situation Your words, not mine, cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Warren Zevon said: Your words, not mine, cop. Really? This is the best you could come up up with? You are just not very good at this Gary... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Your words, not mine, cop. You’re mentally ######ed. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 hours ago, GaryPinC said: I understand what you're saying, and given this didn't happen in a vacuum, it's NOT a crowd. It's a couple guys, they arrested the one and shoved the other. Please explain to me why they did not arrest both men? What part of protocol justified pushing this man given the lack of a crowd? If anything, he should have been the one most likely to be arrested. I also take exception to your assertion that the man clearly reached his right hand toward an officer's belt. He did not. He had his cell phone in his hand and clearly motioning with his hand around the officer. I don't have a problem with how the man received medical attention. There clearly was a plan in place and the lead officers were instructed not to break ranks while others attended. In this situation, I believe the officers did have the luxury to assess and simply arrest him after warning. Protocols need to change. I get that in other situations they may not and shoving people aside can be warranted. "It's ok because in other situations it would be ok" just doesn't cut it. People are sick of it. Even more the reason they simply should have arrested him if they truly felt he was trying to take their weapons. Seems like a great reason above and beyond curfew. You are making little sense. And again, there were 2 protesters in the vicinity, not a crowd. They arrested the other guy. Why couldn't they just have arrested Gugino? You refuse to give me a reason. Gugino was playing a stupid game, on that we agree. Why didn't they arrest him? The reason I can't answer that is because I wasn't inside their head. Can I speculate? Sure. Maybe their first reaction was "don't touch me...move along or we will arrest you!" Then he got knocked to the ground. Arresting him at that point would have been a very back visual. Regarding the bold. I've always say stupid should hurt. Guess what? It did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: You’re mentally ######ed. Cool. You're mentally mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Warren Zevon said: and of course Yup those are the exact same situation that was in Buffalo. Oy............. 23 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: I've shaken a cops hand before. Were they in riot gear? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Chef Jim said: Yup those are the exact same situation that was in Buffalo. Oy............. The former cop said 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: in any situation that's the point fat lunch man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: The former cop said that's the point fat lunch man. I don't give a flip what the former cop said. I'm referring to the pictures you posted vs what happened in Buffalo. And who is this fat lunch man you're talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Chef Jim said: I don't give a flip what the former cop said. I'm referring to the pictures you posted vs what happened in Buffalo. The situations are drastically different - you are right. Now if you would like to contribute to the context of the conversation (you're terrible at this) feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 No I see what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying. And clarify this for me. Who is this fat lunch guy you keep talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 55 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Hey, next time you are walking down the street and see an officer, walk up to 1-2 feet of him/her and reach your hand toward his/her belt. Let us all know how it turns out.... Actually, the true test comes when someone else violates his personal space and reaches toward his n*ts. It's easy to be judgemental when someone else's n*ts are in play. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 nuts It's okay to say nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: nuts It's okay to say nuts. Gary is nuts. Hey you're right. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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