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Hapless Bills Fan

Run Blocking vs Titans - all 22

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12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Here's an example of a play that didn't work.  I can see what Daboll wanted to do, but I'm not quite sure what should have happened to adjust to the D coverage.  Your thoughts?  I have mine of course.

 

This is the 1st play of 2Q.  1-10 Bal41.  11 pers but Holmes is lined up inside the TE, fundamentally it's 12 pers.  Looks like Benjamin out wide, not sure who the slot is.  "No Sale #1": Fundamentally, the Titans have no concern about the WR on the weak side.  You can see before the snap that the CB opposite the slot guy is 100% focused on the line.  He could care less about the guy he's covering.  He's either gonna blitz, or he's gonna get in on some run tackling.

 

Spoiler: It's a run play, and he makes the tackle.

 

image.thumb.png.8569b2d182014bf9f52518a41566d2e6.png

 

Here's just after the snap.  Even before it, the CB was already three big steps towards the hashes.  As the slot receiver takes his first step, he's got no one covering him.

We can see Ducasse is gonna pull and Holmes is moving up to block.

image.thumb.png.5e3edde7265b33add2c0d781ca8c5a44.png

Holmes through the gap, Ducasse heading into it, Ivory still 2 yds back - but it looks like the CB is gonna get to the hole before Ivory does.

image.thumb.png.3aeebe6ea69e748b8954dd03c9c3d5a1.png

Here's a different view.  Holmes gamely taking on the LB, Ducasse heading for the hole with Ivory right behind him, but the CB closing fast.  Keep in mind this is forshortened, so you can't tell that Ducasse is still about 2 yds back from the hole and Ivory about 2 yds behind Ducasse, but you can tell by the blurry that Mr CB has a full head of steam on.

image.thumb.png.c33fd0cdf80f2fd53d2cdedc89f46d59.png

Timber!  That's Ivory at the L, being tackled by the CB who started the play lined up across from the slot guy. 

image.png.75de19006fa37d079047807da151fe47.png

At this point, the blocking across the line is breaking down.  Clay has lost his battle with his LB and been shoved back past the LOS.  Mills has been shoved right into the gap by his guy, so there isn't much gap left for Ducasse.  But the main issue is the CB charging over, who gets his mitts on Ivory to tackle for a loss (only, being Ivory, he fights his way back to the LOS)

 

What should have happened on this play?  Is it just a case of Ducasse and Ivory aren't fast enough to pull it off?  Or??

 

 

 

 

I would say this is just a classic example of the Defense dialing the right blitz up 

 

blitzers coming off the edge in the NFL are always a fraction away from stopping the runner behind the LoS, especially from the backside

 

i would say if the same play (offensive and defensive) were called 10 times in a row I don’t believe the blitzing corner makes that play more than 50% of the time 

 

i used to love blitzing off the edge but to shut down a strong side run off the weak side you gotta do a couple things perfectly 

 

creep down into the box, get a good angle and then jump the snap perfectly... Allen already has great voice inflection for a rookie so I think it will be hard to get a beat on his cadence consistently 

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20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Here's an example of a play that didn't work.  I can see what Daboll wanted to do, but I'm not quite sure what should have happened to adjust to the D coverage.  Your thoughts?  I have mine of course.

 

This is the 1st play of 2Q.  1-10 Bal41.  11 pers but Holmes is lined up inside the TE, fundamentally it's 12 pers.  Looks like Benjamin out wide, not sure who the slot is.  "No Sale #1": Fundamentally, the Titans have no concern about the WR on the weak side.  You can see before the snap that the CB opposite the slot guy is 100% focused on the line.  He could care less about the guy he's covering.  He's either gonna blitz, or he's gonna get in on some run tackling.

 

Spoiler: It's a run play, and he makes the tackle.

 

image.thumb.png.8569b2d182014bf9f52518a41566d2e6.png

 

Here's just after the snap.  Even before it, the CB was already three big steps towards the hashes.  As the slot receiver takes his first step, he's got no one covering him.

We can see Ducasse is gonna pull and Holmes is moving up to block.

image.thumb.png.5e3edde7265b33add2c0d781ca8c5a44.png

Holmes through the gap, Ducasse heading into it, Ivory still 2 yds back - but it looks like the CB is gonna get to the hole before Ivory does.

image.thumb.png.3aeebe6ea69e748b8954dd03c9c3d5a1.png

Here's a different view.  Holmes gamely taking on the LB, Ducasse heading for the hole with Ivory right behind him, but the CB closing fast.  Keep in mind this is forshortened, so you can't tell that Ducasse is still about 2 yds back from the hole and Ivory about 2 yds behind Ducasse, but you can tell by the blurry that Mr CB has a full head of steam on.

image.thumb.png.c33fd0cdf80f2fd53d2cdedc89f46d59.png

Timber!  That's Ivory at the L, being tackled by the CB who started the play lined up across from the slot guy. 

image.png.75de19006fa37d079047807da151fe47.png

At this point, the blocking across the line is breaking down.  Clay has lost his battle with his LB and been shoved back past the LOS.  Mills has been shoved right into the gap by his guy, so there isn't much gap left for Ducasse.  But the main issue is the CB charging over, who gets his mitts on Ivory to tackle for a loss (only, being Ivory, he fights his way back to the LOS)

 

What should have happened on this play?  Is it just a case of Ducasse and Ivory aren't fast enough to pull it off?  Or??

 

 

 

It was a very common corner blitz, you can see the safety coming down to cover the slot WR. It’s not that they don’t have any concern about the WR, it’s just that they didn’t want to give away their blitz and coverage scheme before the snap. 

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10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I would say this is just a classic example of the Defense dialing the right blitz up 

blitzers coming off the edge in the NFL are always a fraction away from stopping the runner behind the LoS, especially from the backside

i would say if the same play (offensive and defensive) were called 10 times in a row I don’t believe the blitzing corner makes that play more than 50% of the time 

i used to love blitzing off the edge but to shut down a strong side run off the weak side you gotta do a couple things perfectly 

creep down into the box, get a good angle and then jump the snap perfectly... Allen already has great voice inflection for a rookie so I think it will be hard to get a beat on his cadence consistently 

 

Great stuff, and great point that this play is a difficult blitz and requires a very speedy CB with great burst to get there.  It was pretty D and fun to watch (except that I'm a Bills fan of course so @#&% the @#$er!)

 

Couple questions:

1) If Allen saw the blitz coming, should he have been able to check into options?  If so what would be your guess?  I can't pick out who that is in the slot - Zay, I think - but he woulda been wide open just after the snap.  Would re-directing Ducasse from pulling, to blocking the CB have also been an option? 

 

Or, is the play at risk as soon as the blitzer lights his jets because it's too low probability to worry about?

 

2) You'd have to go to the film for this but my concern at the end was just how slow to develop it all seemed.  Everything has to be timed to Ducasse.  Is one of the reasons run plays with him as the lead blocker seem not to work, is because he's not fast enough when he pulls?

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4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great stuff, and great point that this play is a difficult blitz and requires a very speedy CB with great burst to get there.  It was pretty D and fun to watch (except that I'm a Bills fan of course so @#&% the @#$er!)

 

Couple questions:

1) If Allen saw the blitz coming, should he have been able to check into options?  If so what would be your guess?  I can't pick out who that is in the slot - Zay, I think - but he woulda been wide open just after the snap.  Would re-directing Ducasse from pulling, to blocking the CB have also been an option? 

 

Or, is the play at risk as soon as the blitzer lights his jets because it's too low probability to worry about?

 

2) You'd have to go to the film for this but my concern at the end was just how slow to develop it all seemed.  Everything has to be timed to Ducasse.  Is one of the reasons run plays with him as the lead blocker seem not to work, is because he's not fast enough when he pulls?

 

Duccasse is an enigma.. He has great size, quickness and strength but he doesn’t process the game super fast

 

when he does process what he should do, he usually looks pretty good... when he doesn’t he gets lost

 

thats why he has such a drastic difference in how he plays sometimes 

 

he is better is a crowd than in space... his athleticism should allow him to pull and execute fairly well but he just gets too upright  when moving laterally and that hurts him and he isn’t good in space 

 

he is at his best with a man on him and allowing him to use his strength and he is at his worst with stunts and twists because he just doesn’t process it fast enough 

 

and I guess you could check to a pass play on that one if you saw it coming but that was just a good defensive play... maybe it took a little to long to develop and that’s why it got stopped in the back 

Edited by Buffalo716
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19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not sure what info I'm "divulging".  If I were a coach, I could see it on broadcast film.  I'm not, I need the crutch of all-22 to slow things down, look at them from different angles.  Then they become much clearer.

 

No "Football Brain Trust" or advanced football acumen was needed to perceive the SNAFU on many of our run plays, I'm sorry to say.  When you got 3 OLmen cut blocking, and it winds up with 3 OLmen eating dirt while three DLmen hurdle them towards the RB, coaching chops ain't needed to say "well that was a Fail".  When you watch the LG trying to pull and he appears to trip over the center's feet, ditto.  When I tap someone who is a coach and who does scout and ask him "help a pal and tell me WTF that was supposed to be 'cuz I just can't figure it out" and he gets back to me saying "well I watched it about 15 times and I think they were trying to...."....yeah, that's AFU.

 

You should try it, it's fun.  Well, not as fun when watching something like the Packers game.  But generally fun.

 

I agree with the principle Just Win Baby, and I'm perfectly happy playing dink-n-dunk grind it out football, but if they can't diversify I feel we will quickly get stuffed.   Even when they have their Superchargers revved up, we don't have the quality of OLmen overall who can face a D that knows exactly what they're gonna do and force their will anyway.   

 

Finding out Ducasse and Bodine have issues with cut blocking and pinpulling? I would never know that unless I studied the all 22 so that's new information "divulged" for me at least.

Like I said I think they can pull of the dink & dunk routine if Allen is able to hit one over the top of the defense a couple times a game and keep them good n honest.

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1 minute ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Finding out Ducasse and Bodine have issues with cut blocking and pinpulling? I would never know that unless I studied the all 22 so that's new information "divulged" for me at least.

Like I said I think they can pull of the dink & dunk routine if Allen is able to hit one over the top of the defense a couple times a game and keep them good n honest.

 

Issues with cut blocks not limited to Ducasse and Bodine.   All our OLmen seem to struggle with it. 

See Buffalo716 this thread on Ducasse pulling - if he sees it, it's there. 

Eric Wood had some stuff in an interview about why it's harder to pull as a center.  I'm not sure it was ever Bodine's thing.

 

The first 4 weeks, the more successful run plays involved:

1) stay on your feet (no cut blocks)

2) stay home (no pulling)

3) extra blockers in the form of a fullback, TEs, or a WR (holmes)/OL playing as a TE, sometimes serving as lead blockers.

4) or, duo-type schemes - one or more double-teams to open and hold bigger holes, but the back's on his own in the second level

Usually these showed up late in the 2nd half.  It seemed early, after a few plays of -1, -2, -5 Daboll would say "it's not working" and bail on the run.  He kind of acknowledged that in this week's presser.

 

What we finally saw last week against Houston was to call the more successful run schemes in the 1st half, then stick with the run. 

 

Why this took until week 5 is kind of a mystery to me.

 

 

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