Fezmid Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 Maybe CW would have been better had he spent more time on stusdying film and learning to play safety and less time on burning bills DVD's... hehehe or am i mixing the 2 of them up? 275463[/snapback] Until I'm cut, THIS IS STILL MY TEAM!!!!! CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 I for one do NOT wish to go into the season with only Milloy and Vincent as starters, and Rashard Baker and some no name rookie as our only back-ups. PP was a valuable player because he played special teams and played both safety positions in a pinch. Wire is the same. They need one of those guys even if they are cut and brought back at a reduced rate. PP is a little safer, IMO. He won't be a playmaker but he doesn't make many mistakes. Wire is hit or miss, literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I for one do NOT wish to go into the season with only Milloy and Vincent as starters, and Rashard Baker and some no name rookie as our only back-ups. PP was a valuable player because he played special teams and played both safety positions in a pinch. Wire is the same. They need one of those guys even if they are cut and brought back at a reduced rate. PP is a little safer, IMO. He won't be a playmaker but he doesn't make many mistakes. Wire is hit or miss, literally. 275879[/snapback] I expect the Bills to draft a safety and expect at least one other will be signed after June 1st (if not more). I would much rather have PP back at reduced salary than Wire. Hopefully they see something in Baker and he has progressed enough to potentially be better than both of them (combined? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 PP was a valuable player because he played both safety positions in a pinch. Wire is the same. 275879[/snapback] You've got a loose definition of "played" - I'd have used "lined up at" or "were listed as." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 You don't get better by committing too much of your cap to special teamers. Unless a guy is a great return man or the second coming of Steve Tasker, he has to be able to backup a position on the team. Especially if he is going to make more than the vet minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 You don't get better by committing too much of your cap to special teamers. Unless a guy is a great return man or the second coming of Steve Tasker, he has to be able to backup a position on the team. Especially if he is going to make more than the vet minimum. 275970[/snapback] Both Wire and PP back-up two positions, not one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Both Wire and PP back-up two positions, not one. 275978[/snapback] You left off the word "poorly" - right before the comma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 You left off the word "poorly" - right before the comma. 275985[/snapback] I honestly think PP is a pretty valuable player. I never saw him as being terrible. He didn't get beat terribly often, IMO, he just never made big plays. Granted, you want big plays out of your safeties, especially FS, and he rarely did. But as a back-up you could count on him not being totally abused. You could not count on Wire or Baker for that. Baker, despite a few nice plays, and a lot of potential, got toasted repeatedly. Far more than I ever saw PP in comparable playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I honestly think PP is a pretty valuable player. I never saw him as being terrible. He didn't get beat terribly often, IMO, he just never made big plays. Granted, you want big plays out of your safeties, especially FS, and he rarely did. But as a back-up you could count on him not being totally abused. You could not count on Wire or Baker for that. Baker, despite a few nice plays, and a lot of potential, got toasted repeatedly. Far more than I ever saw PP in comparable playing time. 275994[/snapback] But, Baker deserves a chance to sink or swim and has had enough moments to easily displace Wire and (at least to me) be on the chart ahead of PP. We saw the same things from the Pats' safeties the early part of last season and they ended up being pretty damn good. He's shown football savvy and the willingness to get his nose dirty. His biggest problem is his aggression and lack of experience. Aggression isn't easy to teach, as Izell Reese proved while seemingly skipping through the meadows last season, costing us a playoff birth in the process. PP looked damn good his first season here but has regressed on defense ever since. It's almost bizarre. At the same time he's become a force on special teams. If he doesn't sign elsewhere I think he'd be fine for the minimum - if no one better is out there. To be honest I think his value is really his leadership but I REALLY don't want to see him playing regular snaps on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 But, Baker deserves a chance to sink or swim and has had enough moments to easily displace Wire and (at least to me) be on the chart ahead of PP. We saw the same things from the Pats' safeties the early part of last season and they ended up being pretty damn good. He's shown football savvy and the willingness to get his nose dirty. His biggest problem is his aggression and lack of experience. Aggression isn't easy to teach, as Izell Reese proved while seemingly skipping through the meadows last season, costing us a playoff birth in the process. PP looked damn good his first season here but has regressed on defense ever since. It's almost bizarre. At the same time he's become a force on special teams. If he doesn't sign elsewhere I think he'd be fine for the minimum - if no one better is out there. To be honest I think his value is really his leadership but I REALLY don't want to see him playing regular snaps on defense. 276000[/snapback] Not advocating PP on the depth chart ahead of Baker at all. I think Baker could be good and definitely deserves the time. What I dont want is 2 30 year olds with recent injury histories as starters and just Baker as a back-up with a 6th round pick or another UFA. Especially if someone (Clements or McGee) goes down at corner for the season and we may have to put Vincent back there. That is why a guy like PP is very valuable, even at 1 million, because he saves a roster spot. He can play three positions and is very good on special teams, and like you said, a leader. I don't want him to play much or expect him to play much but you arent shot if he is forced to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I don't want him to play much or expect him to play much but you arent shot if he is forced to. 276005[/snapback] The biggest heartache I have is he couldn't beat out Ike Reese - who may have been the worst starting veteran safety in NFL history. Something VERY weird there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Both Wire and PP back-up two positions, not one. 275978[/snapback] Why do you consider Wire a FS back-up? After the short-lived ridiculous absurd miserable doomed catostrophic disasterous failed experiment of him at FS I don't think they let him get near there the rest of the year. I remember having discussion w/ you early in the year regarding the worthiness of Wire (which for me was worthless). You seemed pretty confident he could be a player at that time - sounds like you may have had some change of heart (or brain? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 Why do you consider Wire a FS back-up? After the short-lived ridiculous absurd miserable doomed catostrophic disasterous failed experiment of him at FS I don't think they let him get near there the rest of the year. I remember having discussion w/ you early in the year regarding the worthiness of Wire (which for me was worthless). You seemed pretty confident he could be a player at that time - sounds like you may have had some change of heart (or brain? ) 276011[/snapback] I definitely think that Wire blew his chance, and simply didn't make the necessary strides at FS or SS for that matter. I never thought he was great or even good, but I did think that he could do it when he put some time into it, which never panned out. I wouldn't care if they gave up on him, because I was wrong and he missed too many plays. Again, what I care about is losing Reese, PP AND Wire, all three of which have started in Bills games at both safety spots. Even though Wire and Reese and PP were not productive players, they were decent and we never got killed on a lot of long balls and long plays with them. Surely we could do better. But until that better player is actually there playing, I am not comfortable with no back-up SS whatsoever and the only back-up FS a very raw UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 I definitely think that Wire blew his chance, and simply didn't make the necessary strides at FS or SS for that matter. I never thought he was great or even good, but I did think that he could do it when he put some time into it, which never panned out. I wouldn't care if they gave up on him, because I was wrong and he missed too many plays. Again, what I care about is losing Reese, PP AND Wire, all three of which have started in Bills games at both safety spots. Even though Wire and Reese and PP were not productive players, they were decent and we never got killed on a lot of long balls and long plays with them. Surely we could do better. But until that better player is actually there playing, I am not comfortable with no back-up SS whatsoever and the only back-up FS a very raw UFA. 276016[/snapback] I agree with you on PP - I never thought he was as bad as some think and I would not be upset if he came back at a lower salary. Wire I do not want back period - even if he comes cheap - he just doesn't have the skills and tools to do the job - regardless of how much time he gets (which has been at least 1 year too many IMHO). I'm still confident TD will pick up some servicable experienced safety help with the The June 1st cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasontixfromcleve Posted March 16, 2005 Share Posted March 16, 2005 y'all are forgetting 2 things here. Steve tasker was not only a great special teamer but also a great team leader as well as a better third reciever then we currently have. Coy Wire - Look at the tape of the Jacksonville game. we lost, Coy wasnt there to make the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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