bartshan-83 Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 I don't know who has heard the story of those MIT guys who developed a team play card counting technique, but it is an amazing story. The book came out a few years ago and I guess its been pretty hot. My roommate read it a few weeks ago so I took it down to Mexico and read it on the flights. Some crazy sh--. These guys basically took card counting and created a team concept and worked in groups. They took Vegas and many other casinos for several million dollars over the course of a few years (others before them probably made even more). To anyone who has ever played cards or gambled, it is exciting stuff. It has probably made Vegas some decent coin too since many people probably believe they can beat the system after reading it. Anyway, to those who read it, what did you think? And to those who have not, I would highly recommend as a nice easy, but exciting read. Really makes you wanna scheme and look for that quick dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Yep, i read that book last year and found it a pretty good read. The system they developed was pretty brilliant, and it was fascinating to read about how they carried it out. I can't help but wonder if some of the book was sensationalized, but that's just speculation on my part. Overall I found the book very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastabillz Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 I saw a short documentary on this on the History Channel the other night. The man who came up with the theory was Professer of Mathematics from MIT who used the schools old IBM punch card computer to prove a therom he formulated on the changing odds in blackjack. He published his findings in a peer reviewed journal but had yet to prove it in real life. He started getting press about the unusual subject matter of his research and finally professional gamblers began to contact him. He eventually linked up with a NYC gambler with mob ties. They went to Reno Neveda to try the system out. They succeeded in every casino eventually being kicked out of every casino under suspecion of cheating. That was the last time the MIT Professer tried out the system himself. He published the book which went on to be a best seller and evetually went on to develop hedge funds on Wallstreet where he made multi millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 I read it about a year ago Bart. Very entertaining book, reads like a spy novel. It's pretty interesting that a lot of the protections you see in place now in casinos are a result of these guys and other cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 for the record, counting cards is NOT cheating. Its just knowing the odds and numbers of cards remaining, and placing your bets accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 for the record, counting cards is NOT cheating. Its just knowing the odds and numbers of cards remaining, and placing your bets accordingly. 272991[/snapback] Tell that to the casinos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 for the record, counting cards is NOT cheating. Its just knowing the odds and numbers of cards remaining, and placing your bets accordingly. 272991[/snapback] Personally I agree with you, but the industry has been successful in making it a punishable offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 for the record, counting cards is NOT cheating. Its just knowing the odds and numbers of cards remaining, and placing your bets accordingly. 272991[/snapback] LOL, try it in real life and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 LOL, try it in real life and see what happens. 273351[/snapback] The casinos suck. You're not allowed to use your eyes or brain while playing their game? Or, you can play the game, but if you win you must be cheating? Heads we win, tails you lose? You all know the Golden Rule: those with the gold make the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 Personally I agree with you, but the industry has been successful in making it a punishable offense. 273020[/snapback] All the casinos can do is ask you to leave and never come back. It is NOT illegal to count cards, casinos just don't like it. They are within their rights to refuse you access to their casino though, and if you get caught going into a banned casino you can be arrested for trespassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 LOL, try it in real life and see what happens. 273351[/snapback] Actually, I have. It is relatively easy to do. The hard part is finding a single deck table with a limit in my price range. I dont have the bankroll necessary to do any damage. You have to place some SERIOUS bets to even get the attention of the pit boss. Those guys were placing huge bets in the + position and minimum bets in the - position, thus announcing to the place that they were counting. I might double or triple my bet in a good spot, but we are still talking like $20 as opposed to $5. Chump change to a casino. Those guys were laying thousands a hand, trying to score. I mostly play with my wife, and just want to have some fun, and a lot of booze.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Agreed. I went to college with those boys I don't know who has heard the story of those MIT guys who developed a team play card counting technique, but it is an amazing story. The book came out a few years ago and I guess its been pretty hot. My roommate read it a few weeks ago so I took it down to Mexico and read it on the flights. Some crazy sh--. These guys basically took card counting and created a team concept and worked in groups. They took Vegas and many other casinos for several million dollars over the course of a few years (others before them probably made even more). To anyone who has ever played cards or gambled, it is exciting stuff. It has probably made Vegas some decent coin too since many people probably believe they can beat the system after reading it. Anyway, to those who read it, what did you think? And to those who have not, I would highly recommend as a nice easy, but exciting read. Really makes you wanna scheme and look for that quick dollar. 272838[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Agreed. I went to college with those boys 273416[/snapback] get the hell outta here!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Yep, in fact saw one of them this weekend. get the hell outta here!? 273428[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Yep, in fact saw one of them this weekend. 273508[/snapback] Which team? The book was about the first team. The History Channel special was about the second team. Very interesting story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 the best is how the super dork with money suddenly was dating nfl cheerleaders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Tell that to the casinos... 273011[/snapback] Casinos do not kick people out because the system operators are taking them to the cleaners. Casinos kick these people out because they are taking money from the other rubes who play the game and no casino wants to develop a rep as a place where card counters can easily take the rubes because then the rubes would tend to avoid that casino in large enough numbers that it would impact the casinos take. The casino does not make money by knowing the odds and beating the player. The casino makes beaucoup bucks by having lots of folks place bet and skimming a percentage of the money which changes hands off for heir services. For example, take an example that most people are familar with, The World Series of Poker. The casinos do not care at all who wins or whether folks play well or not. They have already made tons of dollars by having thousands of people pay $10,000 bucks to enter and then they skim whatever percentage of this pool for themselves off the top and redistribute the majority of these funds to the winners. The players are not competing against the casino, they are competing against each other and the casino is taking a hefty cut for providing a venue for this activity. Likewise with football betting. The lines are set not to judge which team is better, but to attract betters so that as close as possible to 50% bet on each team. In most cases, a team is judged to be signficantly better so you have to give the team judged the lesser a point advanatage to achieve the 50% breakdown and attract even more betters to the opportunity and thus have more money flow through the casino for them to skim their cut. The only way they can get hurt is if their line is so bad it does not attract near the same numbers to each bet, the larger number of betters win and even then the amount would need to exceed the casinos cut for handling the transaction in order for them to lose money. Casinos are businesses and they do not gamble. They take their cash off the top and let you gamble. They make a show of keeping the folks who win with a system which the rubes cannot use out of the casino so you will come spend your money, but could not care less that someone is taking rubes to the cleaners as long as the rubes keep coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I got married and had 3 kids. That's enough of a gamble for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Casinos do not kick people out because the system operators are taking them to the cleaners. Casinos kick these people out because they are taking money from the other rubes who play the game and no casino wants to develop a rep as a place where card counters can easily take the rubes because then the rubes would tend to avoid that casino in large enough numbers that it would impact the casinos take. The casino does not make money by knowing the odds and beating the player. The casino makes beaucoup bucks by having lots of folks place bet and skimming a percentage of the money which changes hands off for heir services. For example, take an example that most people are familar with, The World Series of Poker. The casinos do not care at all who wins or whether folks play well or not. They have already made tons of dollars by having thousands of people pay $10,000 bucks to enter and then they skim whatever percentage of this pool for themselves off the top and redistribute the majority of these funds to the winners. The players are not competing against the casino, they are competing against each other and the casino is taking a hefty cut for providing a venue for this activity. Likewise with football betting. The lines are set not to judge which team is better, but to attract betters so that as close as possible to 50% bet on each team. In most cases, a team is judged to be signficantly better so you have to give the team judged the lesser a point advanatage to achieve the 50% breakdown and attract even more betters to the opportunity and thus have more money flow through the casino for them to skim their cut. The only way they can get hurt is if their line is so bad it does not attract near the same numbers to each bet, the larger number of betters win and even then the amount would need to exceed the casinos cut for handling the transaction in order for them to lose money. Casinos are businesses and they do not gamble. They take their cash off the top and let you gamble. They make a show of keeping the folks who win with a system which the rubes cannot use out of the casino so you will come spend your money, but could not care less that someone is taking rubes to the cleaners as long as the rubes keep coming. 273863[/snapback] There are only three endeavors in the casino in which you are not betting against the house: Poker, Horse racing and Sports books. Blackjack you most DEFINITELY are competing with the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 There are only three endeavors in the casino in which you are not betting against the house: Poker, Horse racing and Sports books. Blackjack you most DEFINITELY are competing with the house. 273906[/snapback] Bingo, and just to confirm it is not illegal to count cards. However, it used to be punishable offence, but not in the eyes of the law, but rather at the hands of Paully Walnuts, if ya know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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