With the 12th Pick Bills select

[John from Riverside]

Just now, USABuffaloFan said:

Yes very true, they are not. Tyrod is accurate, doesn't throw INT's, has a winning record in the NFL and yet he isn't good enough. You keep telling me I need to watch tape, I seen enough checking him out online. He doesn't know how to sit under Center, drop back and throw. All QB's that are consistent winners in the NFL can do this. You can't say Lamar can do this so he is at best a huge project. Losman hit 2 80+ yard passes in a Houston game coming from behind. You tell me why Lamar is worth being in Buffalo at 12 and 22, I do not see it.

Baker Mayfield doesnt sit behind center either.....is he also a huge project?

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Yes very true, they are not. Tyrod is accurate, doesn't throw INT's, has a winning record in the NFL and yet he isn't good enough. You keep telling me I need to watch tape, I seen enough checking him out online. He doesn't know how to sit under Center, drop back and throw. All QB's that are consistent winners in the NFL can do this. You can't say Lamar can do this so he is at best a huge project. Losman hit 2 80+ yard passes in a Houston game coming from behind. You tell me why Lamar is worth being in Buffalo at 12 and 22, I do not see it.

Lot of NFL players think Jackson will be good.  Lots of NFL D coaches don't want him in their division.  I am not certain he will reach his potential.  Maybe he'll bust, but there must be something genuine about his ability for current players and coaches to speak highly of him.  I think he could be good Mike Vick at best.  He does need time.  Not my first or second choice, but I think he's less of a project than you surmise.

[USABuffaloFan]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Baker Mayfield doesnt sit behind center either.....is he also a huge project?

Baker Mayfield

Year	Team	Games		Passing									Rushing
		GP	GS	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yards	Y/Att	Long	TDs	Int	Sacked	Att	Yards	Avg	TD
2013	Texas Tech	8	5	228	340	64.1	2,315	6.8	60	12	9	24	88	190	2.2	3
2015	Oklahoma	13	13	269	395	68.1	3,700	9.4	76	36	7	39	141	405	2.9	7
2016	Oklahoma	13	13	254	358	70.9	3,965	11.1	88	40	8	18	78	177	2.3	6
2017	Oklahoma	13	12	262	369	70.5	4,340	11.5	84	41	5	26	97	311	3.2	5
College Totals		47	43	1,003	1,462	68.6	14,320	9.8	88	129	29	107	404	1,083	2.7	21

 

Lamar Jackson

 

NCAA collegiate career statistics
Louisville Cardinals
Season	Passing							Rushing
	Comp	Att	Pct	Yards	TD	Int	Rate	Att	Yards	Avg	TD
2015	135	247	54.7	1,840	12	8	126.8	163	960	5.9	11
2016	230	409	56.2	3,543	30	9	148.8	260	1,571	6.0	21
2017	254	430	59.1	3,660	27	10	146.6	232	1,601	6.9	18
NCAA career totals	619	1,086	57.0	9,043	69	27	142.9	655	4,132	6.3	50

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Baker Mayfield

Year	Team	Games		Passing									Rushing
		GP	GS	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yards	Y/Att	Long	TDs	Int	Sacked	Att	Yards	Avg	TD
2013	Texas Tech	8	5	228	340	64.1	2,315	6.8	60	12	9	24	88	190	2.2	3
2015	Oklahoma	13	13	269	395	68.1	3,700	9.4	76	36	7	39	141	405	2.9	7
2016	Oklahoma	13	13	254	358	70.9	3,965	11.1	88	40	8	18	78	177	2.3	6
2017	Oklahoma	13	12	262	369	70.5	4,340	11.5	84	41	5	26	97	311	3.2	5
College Totals		47	43	1,003	1,462	68.6	14,320	9.8	88	129	29	107	404	1,083	2.7	21

 

Lamar Jackson

 

NCAA collegiate career statistics
Louisville Cardinals
Season	Passing							Rushing
	Comp	Att	Pct	Yards	TD	Int	Rate	Att	Yards	Avg	TD
2015	135	247	54.7	1,840	12	8	126.8	163	960	5.9	11
2016	230	409	56.2	3,543	30	9	148.8	260	1,571	6.0	21
2017	254	430	59.1	3,660	27	10	146.6	232	1,601	6.9	18
NCAA career totals	619	1,086	57.0	9,043	69	27	142.9	655	4,132	6.3	50

I am missing the part where Baker sits behind center

[USABuffaloFan]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am missing the part where Baker sits behind center

Neither played under Center your the one trying to compare these QB's. I will take Baker's over Lamar's easily. Lamar is like Allen, inaccurate.

[USABuffaloFan]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am missing the part where Baker sits behind center

Lamar's biggest issue will be his measurements and whether he can withstand NFL punishment. RGIII won't help this outlook. Noone will go out on the line and say this kid has the body for the NFL. Lots of great things to say about him but I have read 10 articles on him and they say he compares with Mike Vick and Randall Cunningham. He has play making ability but no one is sure he will stay healthy and be accurate.

 

"Lamar Jackson was a hell of a college quarterback, but his ability to read the complex coverage of the NFL a total unknown. And although he was able to rack up some serious numbers at Louisville, his accuracy is also in question. Jackson's not a bad guy, but he's definitely not an NFL-caliber quarterback."

 

 

"There is no getting around the fact that Lamar Jackson is rail thin (6-foot-3, 205 pounds, per school measurements). He will have to continue to add more muscle and bulk to his frame. While dialing back his rush attempts can help protect Jackson's lean frame, the hits sustained in the pocket can also be damaging if a quarterback doesn't have the build to absorb those shots. While it hasn't become a problem this season, ball security was a big concern for Jackson last year and will need to be monitored moving forward. There are still some inconsistencies with Jackson's throwing velocity, but that might be something he can improve upon with technique work. From an accuracy standpoint, Jackson has shown improvement, but he still has work to do with his short-throw accuracy. He needs to a better job of leading receivers instead of making them adjust to his throws. It will be interesting to see if Jackson's pocket poise and ability to keep from staring down targets will continue to hold up as teams get more tape on him and adjust their game plans."

 

"Evaluating Jackson against the NFL standards for the position will cause him to come up short. However, he has rare speed and athleticism and can single-handedly win games. Jackson's accuracy is clearly spotty and teams must decide the level of accuracy they are willing to live with relative to his ability to create explosive plays. Jackson may need to operate in an offense ready to integrate RPOs (run/pass options) along with heavy play-action. Like Deshaun Watson in 2017, Jackson has the ability to counter mental mistakes and turnovers with a high number of explosive, touchdown-making plays. He has star potential, but his success will rest heavily upon his ability to stay healthy."

 

 

"The question moving forward will be a matter of whether or not Jackson can bulk up and improve his accuracy.

Only so much can be accomplished in one offseason, but Jackson would benefit greatly from showing signs of improvement in both regards. A sturdier frame will imply that he can remain healthy in the NFL, while improved accuracy will temper some of the concerns about his arm.

Jackson has the raw ability to be one of the best players in the 2018 NFL Draft, but failing to improve in those two areas could severely damage his draft stock."

 

 "Jackson has a ways to go to develop into a consistently accurate passer. He has a bad habit of locking out his front leg, screwing himself into the ground and falling off throws. This dramatically affects his ball placement and touch. He flashes the ability to work to Nos. 2-3 in his progression, but usually if No. 1 isn't there, he looks to run. In his defense, the pass protection at Louisville was terrible at times (see Houston game).

The other major concern about Jackson is his thin frame. He is very wiry and he'll need to add some bulk to withstand a 16-game schedule at the next level. The same things were said about Deshaun Watson early in his college career. He packed on plenty of bulk before leaving Clemson and hopefully Jackson will do the same."

 

 

[John from Riverside]

30 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Neither played under Center your the one trying to compare these QB's. I will take Baker's over Lamar's easily. Lamar is like Allen, inaccurate.

Excuse me but YOU brought up the under center part.  I stated that they dont...it has absolutely nothing with productivity between the two as the offenses are different...if anything you could say that Lamar plays in a more pro ready style offense of the two.

 

But I dont hear you bitching about Baker Mayfield not playing under center...it seems to only be a thing with Lamar.

 

My first choice is Rosen......of course its gonna cost a mint to get there.

[USABuffaloFan]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Excuse me but YOU brought up the under center part.  I stated that they dont...it has absolutely nothing with productivity between the two as the offenses are different...if anything you could say that Lamar plays in a more pro ready style offense of the two.

 

But I dont hear you bitching about Baker Mayfield not playing under center...it seems to only be a thing with Lamar.

 

My first choice is Rosen......of course its gonna cost a mint to get there.

Baker at least played the spread in shotgun and threw allot for good completion percentage, just as accurate on the run throwing. Has good size and weight for being 6'. Great yards/ catch, High TD to Int ratio, High IQ for football, Spread is used in the NFL, not many teams play the Option. Kelly played allot of spread and did shotgun, Thurman was awesome with those delayed handoffs out of that formation, see McCoy doing the same. Also no one is saying Baker can't play under center or in the pocket. Young, Elway, Favre, Rodgers all move around allot. Jackson is a GREAT athlete but at 6'3" and 200lbs and has extremely thin legs. Seems a stretch for the first round, 2-3 worth the risk.

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Baker at least played the spread in shotgun and threw allot for good completion percentage, just as accurate on the run throwing. Has good size and weight for being 6'. Great yards/ catch, High TD to Int ratio, High IQ for football, Spread is used in the NFL, not many teams play the Option. Kelly played allot of spread and did shotgun, Thurman was awesome with those delayed handoffs out of that formation, see McCoy doing the same. Also no one is saying Baker can't play under center or in the pocket. Young, Elway, Favre, Rodgers all move around allot. Jackson is a GREAT athlete but at 6'3" and 200lbs and has extremely thin legs. Seems a stretch for the first round, 2-3 worth the risk.

 

Congrats....you have managed to cover every paroted perceived weakness of Lamar Jackson while managing to avoid every perceived weakness of the QB you are championing.......you probably thought nobody noticed that.

 

 

[USABuffaloFan]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

 

Congrats....you have managed to cover every paroted perceived weakness of Lamar Jackson while managing to avoid every perceived weakness of the QB you are championing.......you probably thought nobody noticed that.

 

 

John, you brought up Lamar, I said he wasn't good enough, doesn't play under center. You brought up Baker doesn't play under center so I showed you Baker and Lamar's stats and why they are different. I never brought up Baker is the guy I want picked. actually if you go back to the beginning you will see I am perfectly OK with McCarron and would like Bills to get Lauletta before NE gets him at 53 (way higher than projected but this kid is good), also suggested a strong arm candidate in Falk with 166 pick. One of McCarron, Peterman, Lauletta and Falk are bound to step out as the guy next 2 years. If not pick another next year 1-3 rounds. Keep a good number on your roster or practice squad till you get this right.

Edited April 8, 2018 by USABuffaloFan

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said:

John, you brought up Lamar, I said he wasn't good enough, doesn't play under center. You brought up Baker doesn't play under center so I showed you Baker and Lamar's stats and why they are different. I never brought up Baker is the guy I want picked. actually if you go back to the beginning you will see I am perfectly OK with McCarron and would like Bills to get Lauletta before NE gets him at 53 (way higher than projected but this kid is good), also suggested a strong arm candidate in Falk with 166 pick. One of McCarron, Peterman, Lauletta and Falk are bound to step out as the guy next 2 years. If not pick another next year 1-3 rounds. Keep a good number on your roster or practice squad till you get this right.

If this team is going to improve then the quality of the QBs has to improve.

 

I am a Rosen guy.....but I like a guy who improved every year of college as a plan B pick.

[swnybillsfan]

without knowing who is on the board, and assuming the big 4 are all gone...i will say mason rudolph. his stature, production, and character all seem to be in line with what this staff is looking for in a qb. he is also described as intelligent and coachable, and i believe he is a faith based guy as well. he seems to fit in the room, he is a pocket passer,  and he is far from flashy or exciting. these things all lead me here. but...i could be way off on this.

[gonzo1105]

I think the reason their not going to select Jackson is by their actions. They met with Jackson at the combine but haven’t had him come in for a visit to the facility or privately worked him out etc. 

 

On the the other hand the Bills have met with Rosen, Mayfield, and Rudolph. 3 guys that have been talked about as being within the Bills range at 12. There was an article today, I can’t remember where that said Rosen is dropping in the lead up to the draft(obviously could be false).

 

I think the Bills haven’t privately met with Darnold and Allen because those 2 guys are out of their range. I think they have been told by teams at the top it’s not happening. 

[BuffaLoko]

On 3/12/2018 at 6:33 PM, Stank_Nasty said:

Why would beane do all this work over the last year for the long game only to stop at 12 and not guarantee they get their man. 

 

Dont be foolish, OP. 

Stan; I get your argument that the work is not done until they get their guy, however we are all assuming who ¨their guy¨ is, so we have a bunch of  different opinions here..

[USABuffaloFan]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

If this team is going to improve then the quality of the QBs has to improve.

 

I am a Rosen guy.....but I like a guy who improved every year of college as a plan B pick.

100% but what do you think of McCarron? We do need 2 more QB's for camp one way or another because you have Primary and secondary offense and defense. Competition is best and may the best player win. We need 2-3 LB's too, especially middle and at least 2 WR's. Would love to move up for Darnold or Rosen but it would ruin what the Bills did in the offseason. They can be pretty good if they fill a few holes. I am pretty sure McCarron is starting unless someone really surprises everyone.

1 hour ago, swnybillsfan said:

without knowing who is on the board, and assuming the big 4 are all gone...i will say mason rudolph. his stature, production, and character all seem to be in line with what this staff is looking for in a qb. he is also described as intelligent and coachable, and i believe he is a faith based guy as well. he seems to fit in the room, he is a pocket passer,  and he is far from flashy or exciting. these things all lead me here. but...i could be way off on this.

Just not at 12

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

2 hours ago, USABuffaloFan said:

Neither played under Center your the one trying to compare these QB's. I will take Baker's over Lamar's easily. Lamar is like Allen, inaccurate.

YOU'RE

[USABuffaloFan]

22 minutes ago, BuffaLoko said:

Stan; I get your argument that the work is not done until they get their guy, however we are all assuming who ¨their guy¨ is, so we have a bunch of  different opinions here..

 

22 minutes ago, BuffaLoko said:

Stan; I get your argument that the work is not done until they get their guy, however we are all assuming who ¨their guy¨ is, so we have a bunch of  different opinions here..

There guy at 12 could be Smith or Edmunds at MLB. That is a huge need of theirs and limited at 21 or 22 at the time to Evans or Esch. I haven't even seen Bill bring in Evans. 

1 minute ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

YOU'RE

Damn spell check changed it, lol.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Baker Mayfield doesnt sit behind center either.....is he also a huge project?

Please don't compare Mayfield to Jackson completely different players.  I realize u were trying to make a pt but its just not fair to Mayfield he's a top notch passer that's so accurate he hardly misses his target. 

 

Btw i got something for your argument.  QB'S have passed the ball from shotgun over 80% of the time last yr. 

[John from Riverside]

10 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Please don't compare Mayfield to Jackson completely different players.  I realize u were trying to make a pt but its just not fair to Mayfield he's a top notch passer that's so accurate he hardly misses his target. 

 

Btw i got something for your argument.  QB'S have passed the ball from shotgun over 80% of the time last yr. 

I think Mayfield is a outstanding player (he may end up being out of our reach)

 

This was in response to the poster's complaint that Jackson doesnt work from behind center (even though he runs a pro style offense)

 

 

[USABuffaloFan]

I now believe Buffalo with the 12th pick grabs Rudolph. Darnold is gone at 1st pick, no way Cleveland takes a chance like Manziel. Baker has too many questions at 1st overall. Jets get Rosen or Allen. Bills are serious and want 1st round talent that is Rudolph, he has really no issues and allot of production. Soft touch can be taught. He is a outstanding individual and very smart.

Edited April 26, 2018 by USABuffaloFan