Prevent Offense

[Billsfan1972]

I saw it differently.  I saw mostly predictable play calling and little success.  

 

Rushing on First down in the second half -1 yards on 6 first down carries....... Passes they were 2-3 + 1 sack.....  

 

So as I see it 6 runs (long of which was 6 yards), 4 passing plays (21 & 16 yard completions) and a sack. 

 

This happens over and over come the second half of games.  

 

 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

I get that there's a difference between "complaining" and "criticizing", but the fact of the matter is that the Bills ended up WINNING THE GAME, and part of the reason is based on how the coaches called the 2nd half (obviously the defense made big plays at crucial times to help the cause). It may not have been to everyone's liking, and there were some questionable calls, but whether aggressive or conservative, it's one if those things where the coaches are either geniuses or dummies, but they won...and there was one point where instead of running the ball and bleeding clock, they passed on all three downs. It was frustrating, but they won. They also went for it on a couple 4th downs where the conservative approach would have been to kick FGs.

 

I think the terrible officiating (on both teams) was a bigger issue, although the bogus false start against Groy (which, btw, no one on offense moved early; watched it in slow motion) may have actually helped the Bills collect points. They were going to go for it on 4th down near the goal line, and may have walked away with no points on the drive. It was a "killer mentality", but they couldn't get in on the previous 3 plays. 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

I get that there's a difference between "complaining" and "criticizing", but the fact of the matter is that the Bills ended up WINNING THE GAME, and part of the reason is based on how the coaches called the 2nd half (obviously the defense made big plays at crucial times to help the cause). It may not have been to everyone's liking, and there were some questionable calls, but whether aggressive or conservative, it's one if those things where the coaches are either geniuses or dummies, but they won...and there was one point where instead of running the ball and bleeding clock, they passed on all three downs. It was frustrating, but they won. They also went for it on a couple 4th downs where the conservative approach would have been to kick FGs.

 

I think the terrible officiating (on both teams) was a bigger issue, although the bogus false start against Groy (which, btw, no one on offense moved early; watched it in slow motion) may have actually helped the Bills collect points. They were going to go for it on 4th down near the goal line, and may have walked away with no points on the drive. It was a "killer mentality", but they couldn't get in on the previous 3 plays. 

Again really?  They were gaining 0 when running on first down and Miami was prepared for it.  This was when Taylor was sacked, completed a nice 13 yard pass to Benjamin and Zay again dropped a crucial 3rd down pass.

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

13 run calls v 14 pass calls in the 2nd half.  Does't seem all that conservative to me.  They just didn't execute as well after half time.  

 

That's what came to my mind too.  

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again really?  They were gaining 0 when running on first down and Miami was prepared for it.  This was when Taylor was sacked, completed a nice 13 yard pass to Benjamin and Zay again dropped a crucial 3rd down pass.

 

The ball was knocked out, it wasn't dropped.

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

That's what came to my mind too.  

 

The ball was knocked out, it wasn't dropped.

Good receivers should come down with that pass.  He did a bad job securing the ball and allowed it to be knocked out.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Good receivers should come down with that pass.  He did a bad job securing the ball and allowed it to be knocked out.

 

You're right....good receivers always come down with a contested ball.

 

Why aren't you talking more about Sammy Watkins 2 catch, 7 yard performance yesterday?

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You're right....good receivers always come down with a contested ball.

 

Why aren't you talking more about Sammy Watkins 2 catch, 7 yard performance yesterday?

14 yards & Goff threw for 120 in a blowout.....  He caught both catchable passes in his direction.  Not the point at all, but thanks for reminding me......

 

If you saw the replay Zay did a piss poor job on that pass.  It was an easy catch for an NFL receiver to make.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

14 yards & Goff threw for 120 in a blowout.....  He caught both catchable passes in his direction.  Not the point at all, but thanks for reminding me......

 

Oh you're right.  14 yards makes it a great game.

It doesn't matter if it's the point at all...you've created 2 threads about a Rams player on a Bills message board.  Is there a point to that?

 

[The Now Moment]

9 hours ago, bobobonators said:

If you want to criticize Tyrod, turnovers and lack of trust in poor decision making is not warranted. Over the last 3 seasons he has a top 5 turnover/td ratio for a QB in the NFL. 

I didn't criticize his lack of turnovers and poor decision making, I criticized his lack of aggressiveness as a passer.  He seems to not trust his own arm at times.  If he did Benjamin would be targeted more in one on one situations.  He did a better job in the first half in being aggressive down the field.  He hasn't done that this year.  He hasn't trusted himself to make a play and attempt those throws up to this point in the year.  That's what I was criticizing.  The result of his conservative play has been his low turnovers.  My point was, it's hard to criticize the play calling when you have a QB that doesn't take chances throwing the ball unless the player is wide open.  That makes it difficult to be more aggressive in your play calling.  Tyrod did a better job of it in the first half but returned to his conservative passes in the second half.  There were play calls that had receivers running down the field but he didn't throw it...can't put all of the conservative play calling on the coaches

[Bills757]

It's obvious to me, when a coach goes conservative, the players know it.  The mentality of playing not to lose versus playing to win takes over.  The team get's tight and production slows.  McD allows this to happen.  If there's a year where you experiment and go for the jugular in games like these, this is the year.  There are certainly times when you go conservative to run the clock, but it appears McD is overly conservative too early in virtually every game when the Bills have a lead.  Why not try and step on Miami's neck, score a few more times and have some momentum going into NE?  As it stands now, even in the case of getting the W, the offensive unit has to feel at least a little dissatisfied with their second half performance which doesn't help their confidence going into next week.  

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

I didn't criticize his lack of turnovers and poor decision making, I criticized his lack of aggressiveness as a passer.  He seems to not trust his own arm at times.  If he did Benjamin would be targeted more in one on one situations.  He did a better job in the first half in being aggressive down the field.  He hasn't done that this year.  He hasn't trusted himself to make a play and attempt those throws up to this point in the year.  That's what I was criticizing.  The result of his conservative play has been his low turnovers.  My point was, it's hard to criticize the play calling when you have a QB that doesn't take chances throwing the ball unless the player is wide open.  That makes it difficult to be more aggressive in your play calling.  Tyrod did a better job of it in the first half but returned to his conservative passes in the second half.  There were play calls that had receivers running down the field but he didn't throw it...can't put all of the conservative play calling on the coaches

So it's the QB's fault that Dennison keeps running Shady up the gut for 3 yard losses?  It's the coach's responsibility to set the tone on offense, not the QB.  Dennison's play calling was very obviously conservative in the second half when the Bills had the lead.  The same has been said about Dennison when he was in Denver.  Taylor threw 18 passes in the first half and 11 in the second half.....that's 40% less opportunities through the air.

 

Whether Taylor sticks around or not next year, I'm not crazy about Dennison's approach and nor am I happy McD allows it to happen.  The turtle approach won't be bringing any championships to Buffalo, that's for sure.

[The Now Moment]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

This is exactly why the Benjamin and Watkins trades are so ill conceived. 

 

He also doesn't go downfield, because, who the !@#$ do you throw to downfield with any sense of reliability on this team? They have no deep threats, and they don't have guys running deep routes a lot of the time. 

Well...you throw to Benjamin.  He's open when he's covered.  He is used to winning one on one jump balls.  That's what he does.  However, Tyrod doesn't like taking any chances...hence he's conservative which leads to more conservative play calling to keep him comfortable.  His lack of aggressiveness in the passing game is the biggest reason we don't throw the ball down the field more.  It's not like they don't call passing plays, he just tends to hold onto the ball more and not throw those 50/50 balls to Benjamin that other QBs do.  

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, RJ (not THAT RJ) said:

Tyrod threw deep to Zay at least once, and threw deep to Clay on 4th down... Everyone is complaining about the conservative calls inside the 10 as if that was the whole half. It was not. Some things didn't work out. It happens.

We also went on 4 th twice. Both failed. At least that penalty when we were on the goaline saved a FG try which put us up 18.

[The Now Moment]

9 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

So it's the QB's fault that Dennison keeps running Shady up the gut for 3 yard losses?  It's the coach's responsibility to set the tone on offense, not the QB.  Dennison's play calling was very obviously conservative in the second half when the Bills had the lead.  The same has been said about Dennison when he was in Denver.  Taylor threw 18 passes in the first half and 11 in the second half.....that's 40% less opportunities through the air.

 

Whether Taylor sticks around or not next year, I'm not crazy about Dennison's approach and nor am I happy McD allows it to happen.  The turtle approach won't be bringing any championships to Buffalo, that's for sure.

It's not all Tyrod's fault but some of it is, yes.  Watching all 22 and even just the game live, he doesn't take many chances down the field.  He had Benjamin playing yesterday and didn't throw it up to him once...that's tough for a play caller to call a pass play if he doesn't want to throw it up. Tyrod was more aggressive in the first half but even when you got to the second half on those pass plays he stopped looking down field and dumped it to the running backs more and threw more underneath throws.  He isn't an aggressive QB through the air...that makes it hard to call more pass plays.

 

That was the first half all year Tyrod has been aggressive and thrown it down the field into somewhat tight coverage.  Hence is highest passing total all year in one half.

[Matt_In_NH]

Great title, says it all.  The Bills are total wusses with playcalling.  Hopefully this can get fixed by firing Dennison and its not driven by McDermott.   This can work against the Dolphins, but it will not against good teams.  

 

And what are they afraid of?  Taylor more than any QB ever takes care of the ball, call it agressively, the results would be better.

[Bills757]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Well...you throw to Benjamin.  He's open when he's covered.  He is used to winning one on one jump balls.  That's what he does.  However, Tyrod doesn't like taking any chances...hence he's conservative which leads to more conservative play calling to keep him comfortable.  His lack of aggressiveness in the passing game is the biggest reason we don't throw the ball down the field more.  It's not like they don't call passing plays, he just tends to hold onto the ball more and not throw those 50/50 balls to Benjamin that other QBs do.  

So why is it that Dennison called 40% less pass plays in the second half and continually ran McCoy after so many negative run plays?  Why is it that Denver fans complained about the same approach by Dennison that we're discussing now?  Taylor wasn't the QB in Denver.

 

The fact your'e trying to blame the conservative play calling on the QB is laughable.  Dennison calls the plays and it's not a coincidence he goes into his shell when the Bills have a lead.  

Edited December 18, 2017 by Bills757

[xRUSHx]

33 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

It's obvious to me, when a coach goes conservative, the players know it.  The mentality of playing not to lose versus playing to win takes over.  The team get's tight and production slows.  McD allows this to happen.  If there's a year where you experiment and go for the jugular in games like these, this is the year.  There are certainly times when you go conservative to run the clock, but it appears McD is overly conservative too early in virtually every game when the Bills have a lead.  Why not try and step on Miami's neck, score a few more times and have some momentum going into NE?  As it stands now, even in the case of getting the W, the offensive unit has to feel at least a little dissatisfied with their second half performance which doesn't help their confidence going into next week.  

So it's the QB's fault that Dennison keeps running Shady up the gut for 3 yard losses?  It's the coach's responsibility to set the tone on offense, not the QB.  Dennison's play calling was very obviously conservative in the second half when the Bills had the lead.  The same has been said about Dennison when he was in Denver.  Taylor threw 18 passes in the first half and 11 in the second half.....that's 40% less opportunities through the air.

 

Whether Taylor sticks around or not next year, I'm not crazy about Dennison's approach and nor am I happy McD allows it to happen.  The turtle approach won't be bringing any championships to Buffalo, that's for sure.

.

"Systems don't win, players do."

"There will be many failures sprinkled among the successes you enjoy."

MLevy

Edited December 18, 2017 by xRUSHx

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Happy with the win first and foremost. Not happy with not putting away a team that you had outplayed all game. No excuse for not playing the exact same offense all second half that you started with. We have a QB with one of the lowest interception rates in the league, do we not trust him to take care of the ball and not throw interceptions I don't understand the logic at all and I guess that's why I don't make the big bucks.

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

So why is it that Dennison called 40% less pass plays in the second half and continually ran McCoy after so many negative run plays?  Why is it that Denver fans complained about the same approach by Dennison that we're discussing now?  Taylor wasn't the QB in Denver?

 

The fact your'e trying to blame the conservative play calling on the QB is laughable.  Dennison calls the plays and it's not a coincidence he goes into his shell when the Bills have a lead.  

Again sir, I said it is not all Taylor's fault but he certainly doesn't make it easy to call a pass play.  He is not the passing QB type.  He is the conservative QB type who relies on the run game.  He is not a guy who is willing to throw the ball down the field like Stafford, Ryan, Brees, even Wilson who he's been compared to by some posters...he isn't as aggressive through the air.  He tends to throw the underneath dump passes over threading the needle down the field.  That makes it harder to call pass plays that are designed for that threading the needle type throws down the field.  

 

He did a better job throwing it down the field and being more aggressive yesterday in the first half and that's why he ended with 165 yards passing in the first half.  He returned to his conservative underneath throws in the second half even with guys down the field just like he had in the first half yesterday.  He's a conservative passer...helps with limiting turnovers but doesn't push the ball down the field.  

[Bills757]

14 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

Schemes don't win players do.

MLevy

IMO you're missing the point.  Scheme and approach are two very different concepts.  Whether it's a WCO or a traditional passing attack isn't the issue.  It's the calls within the schemes that set the tone for an offense.  You can go conservative in pretty much any type of scheme. 

[xRUSHx]

6 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

IMO you're missing the point.  Scheme and approach are two very different concepts.  Whether it's a WCO or a traditional passing attack isn't the issue.  It's the calls within the schemes that set the tone for an offense.  You can go conservative in pretty much any type of scheme. 

IMO If the players can not get the play done that is called it is on the players.

All about execution, you either do or you do not.

 

It is all about having the right players, ones that get the job done. Look at Roman he was attacked when here the same way and now his new team is executing the same stuff as when he was here.

Edited December 18, 2017 by xRUSHx