2012-13 Seattle Seahawks Parallels

[Flip Johnson]

I think we are all wondering whether the Bills as currently constituted can sustain success.

 

Thinking about this took me back to something McCoy said earlier in the year. He made the comment at the very beginning of the season that the team was built to win like the old Seahawks.

 

As the season takes shape it is easy to see what he was talking about.

 

The 2012 Seahawks:

 

• Had a very mobile QB (rookie Russell Wilson) who attempted fewer than 400 passes but could hit big plays when necessary.
• They were the #3 rushing team in the league (led by Marshawn Lynch), and their rushing attempts outweighed passing attempts 536/404.
• Their WRs were a collection of random guys - no one on the team had more than 50 catches.
• The backbone of the team was its defense - only 245 points allowed.
• The defense was led by a ballhawking secondary and a strong front four.
• They played great special teams and minimized turnovers (only 18 on the season) and ended +13.
• Because of their limited passing attack, they played numerous games where it looked like they had no offense, especially early in the year (road losses by scores like 20-16, 19-13, 13-6)
• They dominated on their home field.

2012 turned into a wild card team, and was putting up big scores (remember the 50-17 game in Toronto?) by the second half of the year.

 

It was not until 2013 that the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl and won - by that time Wilson had developed as a passer and the Legion of Boom had fully developed.

 

Obviously, Seattle has managed to sustain success but the recipe has changed over the years as the defense has gotten older and Wilson has become a top-level talent.

 

Here are the stats from that season:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2012.htm

[BADOLBILZ]

I think we are all wondering whether the Bills as currently constituted can sustain success.

 

Thinking about this took me back to something McCoy said earlier in the year. He made the comment at the very beginning of the season that the team was built to win like the old Seahawks.

 

As the season takes shape it is easy to see what he was talking about.

 

The 2012 Seahawks:

 

• Had a very mobile QB (rookie Russell Wilson) who attempted fewer than 400 passes but could hit big plays when necessary.
• They were the #3 rushing team in the league (led by Marshawn Lynch), and their rushing attempts outweighed passing attempts 536/404.
• Their WRs were a collection of random guys - no one on the team had more than 50 catches.
• The backbone of the team was its defense - only 245 points allowed.
• The defense was led by a ballhawking secondary and a strong front four.
• They played great special teams and minimized turnovers (only 18 on the season) and ended +13.
• Because of their limited passing attack, they played numerous games where it looked like they had no offense, especially early in the year (road losses by scores like 20-16, 19-13, 13-6)
• They dominated on their home field.

2012 turned into a wild card team, and was putting up big scores (remember the 50-17 game in Toronto?) by the second half of the year.

 

It was not until 2013 that the Seahawks went to the Super Bowl and won - by that time Wilson had developed as a passer and the Legion of Boom had fully developed.

 

Obviously, Seattle has managed to sustain success but the recipe has changed over the years as the defense has gotten older and Wilson has become a top-level talent.

 

Here are the stats from that season:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/2012.htm

 

 

The formula is similar in that it runs contrary to the idea that you need a HOF pocket passer to win big.

 

Talent wise.........this Bills defense is not nearly as physical/dominant...........they give up a ton of yards........they aren't the "don't give up an inch of ground" smothering style of defense that Seattle had.

 

And the Bills run game is different........effective, but not as punishing/physical.

 

This Bills team is also a very old one..........second oldest team in the NFL.........that 2012 Seahawks team was the youngest in the league..

 

That's a big issue when you are built around defense.......because while a defense is easy to turn around, they are hard to sustain.

 

Age is probably the biggest reason why this and the "1988 Bills" comparisons that have been floated out there don't really fit.........this team isn't necessarily a launch point for anything long term, it's built to win now.

[BringBackOrton]

 

 

The formula is similar in that it runs contrary to the idea that you need a HOF pocket passer to win big.

 

Talent wise.........this Bills defense is not nearly as physical/dominant...........they give up a ton of yards........they aren't the "don't give up an inch of ground" smothering style of defense that Seattle had.

 

And the Bills run game is different........effective, but not as punishing/physical.

 

This Bills team is also a very old one..........second oldest team in the NFL.........that 2012 Seahawks team was the youngest in the league..

 

That's a big issue when you are built around defense.......because while a defense is easy to turn around, they are hard to sustain.

 

Age is probably the biggest reason why this and the "1988 Bills" comparisons that have been floated out there don't really fit.........this team isn't necessarily a launch point for anything long term, it's built to win now.

I get your point but right now, the play of the younger guys is the reason we're having success, not the older guys. In 2017, guys like Hyde, Poyer, White have been far more integral to our success than Wood, Kyle, etc.

[BADOLBILZ]

I get your point but right now, the play of the younger guys is the reason we're having success, not the older guys. In 2017, guys like Hyde, Poyer, White have been far more integral to our success than Wood, Kyle, etc.

 

 

Actually it's been a team effort predicated on being in position.

 

Old farts like Hughes, Humber and Alexander have been indispensible on defense.

 

Two of the three biggest problem players on the starting units(along with Jordan Mills) have been rookies Zay and Dawkins.........if Matt Milano has to play a lot.......that doesn't bode well at all from what he's shown.

 

3D White has been great and Yarbrough has flashed pass rush and Shaq is doing well in run defense but as for really "young" players.......that's about it.

 

Guys like Poyer and Hyde are 26 already, NFL middle-aged for their positions. They don't bring the Bills average age down. If you average 26 years old as a team......you are old.

 

Brown, Matthews and Gaines are all free agents and I'd be mildly surprised to see any of them back. McD has had a hot hand picking up vets so I would expect he'll take his chances on cheap, seemingly under-utilized players from elsewhere.

 

I would expect that the Bills will be the OLDEST team in the NFL next year.........they will add some rookies but I don't expect McD to be willing to take a step back so expect more veteran signings and most of the starters to just be the same guys a year older.

[Augie]

It's hard too think of us as an old team. I think that will change pretty quickly in the next 2 years.

[Flip Johnson]

 

 

The formula is similar in that it runs contrary to the idea that you need a HOF pocket passer to win big.

 

Talent wise.........this Bills defense is not nearly as physical/dominant...........they give up a ton of yards........they aren't the "don't give up an inch of ground" smothering style of defense that Seattle had.

 

And the Bills run game is different........effective, but not as punishing/physical.

 

This Bills team is also a very old one..........second oldest team in the NFL.........that 2012 Seahawks team was the youngest in the league..

 

That's a big issue when you are built around defense.......because while a defense is easy to turn around, they are hard to sustain.

 

Age is probably the biggest reason why this and the "1988 Bills" comparisons that have been floated out there don't really fit.........this team isn't necessarily a launch point for anything long term, it's built to win now.

 

The formula is my point.

 

The difference between the average age of the Bills (26.7) and the league middle Broncos (26.0) is basically negligible.

[GunnerBill]

I don't think this team is as deep or as talented as that Seahawks one defensively. Do they play a similar style? Sure, but they are not as good.

 

Equally people love to rundown that Seattle receiving group but both Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin are 1B type receivers and both would be the best receiver on this team.

 

I hadn't considered the age thing that Badol raises but it is another important difference.... though I disagree on whether we see some guys back. I think EJ Gaines and Preston Brown would interest them long term at the right price. Matthews I agree on though. Doubt he is a Bill in 2018.

[snafu]

So you're saying that if we just get Percy Harvin we will be all set?

[BringBackOrton]

 

 

Actually it's been a team effort predicated on being in position.

 

Old farts like Hughes, Humber and Alexander have been indispensible on defense.

 

Two of the three biggest problem players on the starting units(along with Jordan Mills) have been rookies Zay and Dawkins.........if Matt Milano has to play a lot.......that doesn't bode well at all from what he's shown.

 

3D White has been great and Yarbrough has flashed pass rush and Shaq is doing well in run defense but as for really "young" players.......that's about it.

 

Guys like Poyer and Hyde are 26 already, NFL middle-aged for their positions. They don't bring the Bills average age down. If you average 26 years old as a team......you are old.

 

Brown, Matthews and Gaines are all free agents and I'd be mildly surprised to see any of them back. McD has had a hot hand picking up vets so I would expect he'll take his chances on cheap, seemingly under-utilized players from elsewhere.

 

I would expect that the Bills will be the OLDEST team in the NFL next year.........they will add some rookies but I don't expect McD to be willing to take a step back so expect more veteran signings and most of the starters to just be the same guys a year older.

I accidentally deleted my response.

 

Suffice it to say I think if you ranked players separately on offense and defense in order of inportance to our success, the top 5 or 6 guys aren't going to be the oldest.

[BADOLBILZ]

I accidentally deleted my response.

 

Suffice it to say I think if you ranked players separately on offense and defense in order of inportance to our success, the top 5 or 6 guys aren't going to be the oldest.

 

The top 5 performers on defense have been fairly clear:

 

Hughes

Lorax

Hyde

Poyer

3D

 

Humber and Gaines are probably a toss-up for 6th considering their production and availability.

 

So of that 7.......3 over 30, 2 middle aged by NFL standards and just 1 young and under team control and one who is a young but a pending UFA.

 

Offense:

 

Taylor

McCoy

Clay

Wood

Incognito

Matthews

 

That is a VERY old offensive core by NFL standards and the one young guy is a pending UFA with relatively light production.

 

Any way you slice it this is NOT a young team and it's not lead by young players.........what I am saying isn't news......moving on from young players like Watkins, Darby, Kujo and Ragnuts was getting rid of the 4 of the top 5 players that the team drafted in the 3 years prior..........so yeah, the core is not surprisingly older.

[GunnerBill]

I'd put Gaines in and take Lorax (who has been very up and down I'd actually have Preston as our best linebacker) out and I think Wood has been pretty average but otherwise I agree with Badol's lists.