Things Taylor did on the field in 2016 that kept him around

[FireChan]

 

Taylor is the better passer.......for all of his deficiencies.........his deep ball is among the games very best and it is the throw which most complements their ground game.

Except for the pesky fact that we had the 5th least passing big plays in the NFL in 2016. So it's among the very best, except for half of his games when it's among the worst.

Edited March 16, 2017 by FireChan

[jeffismagic]

Except for the pesky fact that we had the 5th least passing big plays in the NFL in 2016. So it's among the very best, except for half of his games when it's among the worst.

 

And on the 2012 49ers Kaepernick had a 8.6 YPA while Tyrod last year had a lower 7.1 YPA.

[transplantbillsfan]

This is what scares me, having Sammy and another top WR hanging out in the end zone wide open while Tyrod runs for his life.

264/415 (63.6%), 3430 yards, 8.3 YPA, 27 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 105.2

 

vs

 

248/402 (61.7%), 2628 yards, 6.5 YPA, 10 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 82.8

 

 

One of those is Taylor's numbers with a real #1 & #2 NFL WR in Watkins and Woods. The other is with one or both missing. Guess which is which...

 

 

*Hint* It makes your post foolish

[transplantbillsfan]

I don't dispute the argument that we might be able to make the playoffs with Taylor. But in my mind that's the absolute height of our aspirations with him.

 

This argument stemmend from a poster who said the only reason to take Wentz over Taylor was their respective ages, which I completely disagree with. Wentz is the kind of prospect you build a franchise around, and Taylor simply isn't.

I gotta say people are too quick to label players.

 

Remember what seems like ages ago now when Ryan Tannehill and Colin Kaepernick and RG3 were constantly called "Elite" and Kirk Cousins was one of the worst QBs in football?

 

I'm sorry, but we're too quick to put these types of labels on players. It's utterly ridiculous to do it after one year.

 

Wentz has the potential, that doesn't mean he's going to meet it. He could bomb out like rg3 or Kaep.

 

And the fact that Taylor has almost 2 full NFL seasons under his belt and has been at the very least a competent NFL starter indicates Taylor has more potential, too. He could improve drastically like Cousins did.

 

 

In a vacuum, I take Wentz. But it's not as cut and dry as you're making it and not a quick decision.

[Patrick Duffy]

That's why it's such a waste of time discussing it.

 

He's our starter, lets embrace that, see what Dennison can do to improve his game, and hope for the best. We'll know soon enough.

 

I can be skeptical without dismissing EVERYTHING else he brings to the position. There's things to like about TT, after all.

 

You are exactly right about that. I am pro Tyrod myself. I do however know he has things to work on obviously, but I wanted him to be back this upcoming season and I'm glad he is. Now with that little being said ........

 

As far as the posters nagging back and forth repeating themselves I don't know why they continue to do it. They are not going to change each others mind on the topic so, why keep spewing out the same things over and over, repeating themselves? I've noticed some posters get annoyed by it, but it has gotten quite comical to me. Every once in a while one of them (rather it be pro Tyrod or anti Tyrod) will say some things that are entirely untrue o just plan off the wall non sense. And if anyone calls them on the nonsense or untrue statement, they get mad or tell you that you are stupid and they are right and you are wrong lol.

 

If things are slow sometimes I go to the threads and get a good laugh from time to time. Although I can admit that it does get old when the nonsense takes up over half of the front page on the message board. That hasn't happened here, yet. Don't think it will, but it was like that almost all the time over at BBMB since it came up with keeping Tyrod or letting him go. It would be thread upon thread of the SAME EXACT people with the SAME EXACT posts.

[Bill_with_it]

John, you might be lost but don't assume that life is as hard for everyone else.

 

The Bills were not going to pick up the option. Fact.

 

Bills were looking at Glennon and asking about Siemian. Fact

 

Tyrod took a significant paycut after his agent inquired what else was out there. Fact.

 

Tyrod got paid like a bridge QB. Fact.

 

Sean McDermott said Tyrod was the best move for the Bills "at this time". Fact.

Literally nothing u stated was fact nor do you have any substance to state such. FACT

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I was just trying to isolate the threat of an elite running QB which you were highlighting. The 49ers example shows that the threat from the run from QB doesn't necessarily improve the YPC.

 

Actually, as I've said many times in many other threads, I think the data in the same offense suggests that Taylor is the better player than Alex Smith and Kaep.

 

But it is to be mentioned that the Niners didn't have a Watkins, Gillislee or McCoy.....big play elements........they had a group of possession WR and Frank Gore who really should have been a low ypc back at that point.

 

If you think you've isolated something then lay it down.......

[jeffismagic]

 

Actually, as I've said many times in many other threads, I think the data in the same offense suggests that Taylor is the better player than Alex Smith and Kaep.

 

But it is to be mentioned that the Niners didn't have a Watkins, Gillislee or McCoy.....big play elements........they had a group of possession WR and Frank Gore who really should have been a low ypc back at that point.

 

If you think you've isolated something then lay it down.......

 

I'll post this again as it might have dropped off for some. Here is where I isolate the running threat at QB in a Greg Roman offense and the variables explained.

 

 

 

Ok, so we have heard over and over how TT is responsible for our great running game. Bandit tried to quantify that by using 2015 games where EJ started. He shows that games where TT started the running game was better by .5 yard. Now that is a sample size of 2, very small. I didn't want to use the 2016 finale as that game the team had quit.

So I found a perfect opportunity to test the Elite QB runner helps the running backs theory.

The 2012 San Francisco 49ers. Greg Roman as offensive coordinator. Colin Kaepernick as a more dangerous runner than TT. Alex Smith as the other QB who was mobile but not a scary running threat. As it happens, we have a decent sample size for each as Alex started the year and Kap finished it off.

I decided to use Frank Gore the feature back's numbers under each to keep random noise lower.

First 8 games where Alex Smith started: Frank Gore 199 carries, 656 yards. 5.51 yards per carry

The next game Alex and Colin shared a lot of snaps, so I discounted it.

Final 7 game where Kaepernick started: Frank Gore 118 carries, 461 yards. 3.91 yards per carry

So here is a Greg Roman offense, similar to the Bills, where we have a large sample size of half a season for effects of running threat for QB. Yet the running QB had much worse yards per carry for Frank Gore!

http://www.pro-footb...ms/sfo/2012.htm

[Patrick Duffy]

Except for the pesky fact that we had the 5th least passing big plays in the NFL in 2016. So it's among the very best, except for half of his games when it's among the worst.

 

Except for the fact that in 2015 we were among the top teams in big passing plays in the NFL. Don't really know why they didn't throw the ball long that much in 2016. Could have been the play calling, could have been due to the number of injuries at the WR position. But either way i certainly think Taylor can connect on the long ball again, that's why some people say (I'm one of them) that he has one of the prettiest deep balls.

[BADOLBILZ]

Except for the pesky fact that we had the 5th least passing big plays in the NFL in 2016. So it's among the very best, except for half of his games when it's among the worst.

 

This is the typical Tyrod Taylor hater take:

 

"Yeah we ran for 200 yards and scored time and again..........but look.......Tyrod didn't throw for 300 yards again!"

 

The Bills were one of the highest scoring teams in the league but even higher in the rankings for offensive TD's scored than just overall scoring.

 

The complaints about Bills TD's scored running INSTEAD of passing rings kinda' hollow........especially when Tyrod ran 6 of them in himself and was greatly impacting the overall run game stats.

 

I'm afraid that as long as the NFL alternates possessions it's going to remain difficult to throw a TD pass a minute after you just ran one in for a TD..........especially if your ST's and defense are bad opposite you.

 

And yeah, the real downtime for Tyrod was when Watkins was out and not back to health. He's lost without talent at WR........but he makes up for that deficiency by covering up for bad OL play and pumping up RB stats.

[BillsFan130]

Well, that's the thing, isn't it ... there weren't a lot of great options out there (although I think Wentz doesn't belong on this list, and Mike Glennon does)

I was going by last years starters. Glennon was the back up, and wentz struggled his first year. Going forward I agree though, I would rather wentz than tyrod but tyrod over glennon

Edited March 17, 2017 by billsfan11

[xRUSHx]

At this point, nobody is going to change their minds on Tyrod until games are actually played. This bickering is approaching BBMB territory.

Right on man, they can't change my mind on Tyrod no matter how many times they try. He is what he is, he has one season make or break, sadly he will take the GM and new staff down with him if he doesn't do better with this staff.

 

Its funny that the same 3 from BBMB are the ones dominating this thread trying real hard to justify Tyrod to the new board the same way they did it on the BBMB. I'm surprised they haven't made 15 Tyrod love threads yet. I do like that this board is open to everyone's opinions over the bashing one would get on the BBMB when anyone would post a negative about Tyrod.

Edited March 17, 2017 by xRUSHx

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

This is the typical Tyrod Taylor hater take:

 

"Yeah we ran for 200 yards and scored time and again..........but look.......Tyrod didn't throw for 300 yards again!"

 

The Bills were one of the highest scoring teams in the league but even higher in the rankings for offensive TD's scored than just overall scoring.

 

The complaints about Bills TD's scored running INSTEAD of passing rings kinda' hollow........especially when Tyrod ran 6 of them in himself and was greatly impacting the overall run game stats.

 

I'm afraid that as long as the NFL alternates possessions it's going to remain difficult to throw a TD pass a minute after you just ran one in for a TD..........especially if your ST's and defense are bad opposite you.

 

And yeah, the real downtime for Tyrod was when Watkins was out and not back to health. He's lost without talent at WR........but he makes up for that deficiency by covering up for bad OL play and pumping up RB stats.

Particularly bad at forcing turnovers once AW went down too. They had forced 12 turnovers in the first 7 games, then AW goes down and they force 6 in the final 9 games.

[Patrick Duffy]

Particularly bad at forcing turnovers once AW went down too. They had forced 12 turnovers in the first 7 games, then AW goes down and they force 6 in the final 9 games.

 

And in those first 7 games the Bills were 5-2.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'll post this again as it might have dropped off for some. Here is where I isolate the running threat at QB in a Greg Roman offense and the variables explained.

 

 

 

Ok, so we have heard over and over how TT is responsible for our great running game. Bandit tried to quantify that by using 2015 games where EJ started. He shows that games where TT started the running game was better by .5 yard. Now that is a sample size of 2, very small. I didn't want to use the 2016 finale as that game the team had quit.

So I found a perfect opportunity to test the Elite QB runner helps the running backs theory.

The 2012 San Francisco 49ers. Greg Roman as offensive coordinator. Colin Kaepernick as a more dangerous runner than TT. Alex Smith as the other QB who was mobile but not a scary running threat. As it happens, we have a decent sample size for each as Alex started the year and Kap finished it off.

I decided to use Frank Gore the feature back's numbers under each to keep random noise lower.

First 8 games where Alex Smith started: Frank Gore 199 carries, 656 yards. 5.51 yards per carry

The next game Alex and Colin shared a lot of snaps, so I discounted it.

Final 7 game where Kaepernick started: Frank Gore 118 carries, 461 yards. 3.91 yards per carry

So here is a Greg Roman offense, similar to the Bills, where we have a large sample size of half a season for effects of running threat for QB. Yet the running QB had much worse yards per carry for Frank Gore!

http://www.pro-footb...ms/sfo/2012.htm

 

 

I think for data that small you may have to look at the game logs for your answer there.

 

The first thing that pops out at me was that they had a game against the Bills where the produced close to 700 yards of offense.....worst day for a Bills defense in their team history........ in the "Alex Smith" portion of the season. Gore got fat that day and in others against the soft portion of their schedule.

 

The Smith portion of the season contained their easier opponents and easier venues......that changed in the game where Smith got knocked out......a loss at Arizona.

 

The second half they had games AT New England, AT Seattle and AT St. Louis.........

 

And fwiw.......you can't really leave out the playoffs that year where he rushed 63 times for 319 for a 5.1 ypc and 4 TD's.....including 2 100+ yard games and a 90.....with Kaep as his QB.

[FireChan]

 

Except for the fact that in 2015 we were among the top teams in big passing plays in the NFL. Don't really know why they didn't throw the ball long that much in 2016. Could have been the play calling, could have been due to the number of injuries at the WR position. But either way i certainly think Taylor can connect on the long ball again, that's why some people say (I'm one of them) that he has one of the prettiest deep balls.

Are you going to keep telling me things I already directly reference in my posts?

 

 

This is the typical Tyrod Taylor hater take:

 

"Yeah we ran for 200 yards and scored time and again..........but look.......Tyrod didn't throw for 300 yards again!"

 

The Bills were one of the highest scoring teams in the league but even higher in the rankings for offensive TD's scored than just overall scoring.

 

The complaints about Bills TD's scored running INSTEAD of passing rings kinda' hollow........especially when Tyrod ran 6 of them in himself and was greatly impacting the overall run game stats.

 

I'm afraid that as long as the NFL alternates possessions it's going to remain difficult to throw a TD pass a minute after you just ran one in for a TD..........especially if your ST's and defense are bad opposite you.

 

And yeah, the real downtime for Tyrod was when Watkins was out and not back to health. He's lost without talent at WR........but he makes up for that deficiency by covering up for bad OL play and pumping up RB stats.

No, it's adding context to your already grossly exaggerated point. TT had a great deep ball in 2015. It dried up in 2016.

 

Now you're shifting to "TD's" when the point was big plays, nice pivot.

 

And you're pretending like we didn't have a bad ST and defense in 2015 or that we weren't the #1 rushing offense in 2015, when Taylor managed to be 19th in TD's thrown and 12th in big passing plays. He seemed to do better even with the "alternate possessions" thing, I think that was a rule instituted before 2016.

 

Please tell me again that TT got way worse in 2016 because he had a great rushing attack and bad defense.

Edited March 17, 2017 by FireChan

[BADOLBILZ]

Are you going to keep telling me things I already directly reference in my posts?

 

No, it's adding context to your already grossly exaggerated point. TT had a great deep ball in 2015. It dried up in 2016.

 

Now you're shifting to "TD's" when the point was big plays, nice pivot.

 

And you're pretending like we didn't have a bad ST and defense in 2015 or that we weren't the #1 rushing offense in 2015, when Taylor managed to be 19th in TD's thrown and 12th in big passing plays. He seemed to do better even with the "alternate possessions" thing, I think that was a rule instituted before 2016.

 

Please tell me again that TT got way worse in 2016 because he had a great rushing attack and bad defense.

 

 

I've been down this path and beaten you a hundred times already.

 

The Bills lead the NFL in big plays in 2016........and in 2015.

 

They had more big pass plays in 2015.......Sammy was healthy.

 

They had less big pass plays in 2016........Sammy was not healthy.

 

But YES.......this is a run based offense........their passing game design was a running joke............Taylor has never been comfortable throwing the ball in shotgun after taking snaps from center all his life.

 

This stuff has all been touched on numerous times in argument, in detail by Cover 1 etc..

Edited March 17, 2017 by #BADOL

[FireChan]

 

 

I've been down this path and beaten you a hundred times already.

 

The Bills lead the NFL in big plays in 2016 despite being bottom 5 in passing big plays........and in 2015.

 

They had more big pass plays in 2015.......Sammy was healthy.

 

They had less big pass plays in 2016........Sammy was not healthy.

 

But YES.......this is a run based offense........their passing game design was a running joke............Taylor has never been comfortable throwing the ball in shotgun after taking snaps from center all his life.

 

This stuff has all been touched on numerous times in argument, in detail by Cover 1 etc..

And here comes the excuses. TT gets sacked 10% of the time under center on 40+ snaps and suddenly he should've been executing 3 step drops under center for years.

[BADOLBILZ]

And here comes the excuses. TT gets sacked 10% of the time under center on 40+ snaps and suddenly he should've been executing 3 step drops under center for years.

 

I think it was like 20% of the time actually.......and they ran like 260 times and only passed 40 times with TT under center.

 

An argument can be made that since the Bills rarely passed with Taylor under center that defenses were able to key on penetration to disrupt the run.

 

That sack by Amstead in the Niners game that was linked the other day was a prime example.........when you run from a formation 7 out of every 8 times teams are going to start cheating up.

[jeffismagic]

 

I think it was like 20% of the time actually.......and they ran like 260 times and only passed 40 times with TT under center.

 

An argument can be made that since the Bills rarely passed with Taylor under center that defenses were able to key on penetration to disrupt the run.

 

That sack by Amstead in the Niners game that was linked the other day was a prime example.........when you run from a formation 7 out of every 8 times teams are going to start cheating up.

 

Badol, I disagree with your views on Tyrod but I respect the thought process behind it. Where do you think he ranks in 2017?