Bill from NYC Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Did uou see the franchise number for the CB position? Woodson signed an offer of 10 million dollars. Ironically, Law drove up that price and was cut. In any event, this all but takes away the option to tag Clements in 06. I like him a ton as a cb, AND he returns punts, but imo, cb is just the wrong position to allocate 10 mil. worth of cap space. Winfield got more than 30 million dollars. Clements is clearly superior, and he is a very good return man. What will HE want, 40 million? 50 million? It may work out, but I am thinking that the Bills need to draft a corner on day 1 of the draft. I would have loved to get Surtain as well. I think that TD should have tried last season to extend Nate. You know, maybe he did, but looking at the whole picture, I am thinking that 05 is it for Nate as a Buffalo Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCCEO Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 We'll see, but he was also TDs first pick as Buffalo GM so you know TD will be interested in keeping him around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Right -on Brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Word of the day---OPTIMISM---maybe the word of the season. I hate to say this but...look at the patsies--players stay to win. If JP comes out gunnin and we are contending (as we should) then there wont be a prob signing and keeping FA's because most players realize its more than the money. Winning is where its at. That said --- here's to winning and OPTIMISM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pm73 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Word of the day---OPTIMISM---maybe the word of the season. I hate to say this but...look at the patsies--players stay to win. If JP comes out gunnin and we are contending (as we should) then there wont be a prob signing and keeping FA's because most players realize its more than the money. Winning is where its at. That said --- here's to winning and OPTIMISM! 255234[/snapback] novel idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 The shutdown cover CB was negated by last seasons rules change. That eliminated the mugging that occured 5 yards after the line of scrimmage. NFL officials were throwing the flag quite freely on the CB's in 2004. People like Champ Bailey, Winfield etc. cashed in before the rules change. The Raiders were stupid to give Woodson the Franchise tag and were stung. Still, I can't see Clements expecting to cash in as big as Winfield or other overpaid CB's. Heck, the Pats won the SB with 2 backups playing CB, so teams will think "why kill your cap for cover CB's ? That's a thing of the past, prior to the rules change " Clements will never sign early and test the market. In the meantime, TD will probably draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd round in April, in anticipation of the move. Addition and subtraction is a way of life with the cap. I see many teams are returning to a 3-4 Defense so they can drop their LB's back in short zone coverage. This allows the CB's to play off the WR's and guard more against the deep ball. Everyone wants to copy the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Clements will never sign early and test the market. 255304[/snapback] why would he not sign an extension tomorrow if a fair market deal was offered? plenty of players sign extensions well before their free agency date........what makes nate so different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Word of the day---OPTIMISM---maybe the word of the season. I hate to say this but...look at the patsies--players stay to win. If JP comes out gunnin and we are contending (as we should) then there wont be a prob signing and keeping FA's because most players realize its more than the money. Winning is where its at. That said --- here's to winning and OPTIMISM! The only Bills player that I can remember turning down more $$$$$$$ from another team was Kent Hull. I know Kent Hull and Nate is no Kent Hull. Nate will go where ever the $$$$$$$$$ is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 The only Bills player that I can remember turning down more $$$$$$$ from another team was Kent Hull. I know Kent Hull and Nate is no Kent Hull. Nate will go where ever the $$$$$$$$$ is. 255331[/snapback] Amen to that. Even Frank Reich left for more money, but he was also going for a starting job. I'm trying to think of a another Bills player that stayed, just to stay. Didn't Bid Ted take a big pay cut (~$1 M) to stay an extra year? How about Tasker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Now is the time to sign him because the market will only go up next year. I have no problem paying him a 10-12M signing bonus. The more guaranteed money the more likely he is to stay and that also can be amortized over a longer time to make it less of a cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Now is the time to sign him because the market will only go up next year. I have no problem paying him a 10-12M signing bonus. The more guaranteed money the more likely he is to stay and that also can be amortized over a longer time to make it less of a cap hit. 255344[/snapback] actually, last year was the time to sign him -- BEFORE his breakout year....... but better late then never........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Amen to that. Even Frank Reich left for more money, but he was also going for a starting job. I'm trying to think of a another Bills player that stayed, just to stay. Didn't Bid Ted take a big pay cut (~$1 M) to stay an extra year? How about Tasker? 255341[/snapback] Frank did not leave for more money. He was selected by Carolina in the expansion draft by Carolina. Please do not put Frank Reich in same category as some of the current money-grabbing atheletes. Beebe, Reich and Metzelaars all stated they would rather remain in Buffalo even if they got more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 yup, nate doesnt exactly strike me as the type of player who puts the team first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Amen to that. Even Frank Reich left for more money, but he was also going for a starting job. I'm trying to think of a another Bills player that stayed, just to stay. Didn't Bid Ted take a big pay cut (~$1 M) to stay an extra year? How about Tasker? 255341[/snapback] I seem to remember that Big Ted reworked his contract so as to provide $$$ and cap space to keep Pat Williams. The 2 were very tight friends at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 The shutdown cover CB was negated by last seasons rules change. That eliminated the mugging that occured 5 yards after the line of scrimmage. NFL officials were throwing the flag quite freely on the CB's in 2004. People like Champ Bailey, Winfield etc. cashed in before the rules change. The Raiders were stupid to give Woodson the Franchise tag and were stung. Still, I can't see Clements expecting to cash in as big as Winfield or other overpaid CB's. Heck, the Pats won the SB with 2 backups playing CB, so teams will think "why kill your cap for cover CB's ? That's a thing of the past, prior to the rules change " Clements will never sign early and test the market. In the meantime, TD will probably draft a CB in the 2nd or 3rd round in April, in anticipation of the move. Addition and subtraction is a way of life with the cap. I see many teams are returning to a 3-4 Defense so they can drop their LB's back in short zone coverage. This allows the CB's to play off the WR's and guard more against the deep ball. Everyone wants to copy the Pats. 255304[/snapback] Couldn't agree more. The rule change requires more attention be given the game-breaking wide-out in the defensive gameplan. The system has to support the player, rather than the other way 'round. Also, because LBs are a mainstay on STs, the personell required for a core 3/4 lend itself to other areas. BTW I'd love to see that 5yd holding penalty be reduced to that of D offsides - no automatic 1st downs. It would still accomplish what it set out to, but it was called so inconsistently (CBs 'feeding' the WR to the S with little contact ) it turned too many 3rd and longs into 1st and 10s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgun Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Did uou see the franchise number for the CB position? Woodson signed an offer of 10 million dollars. Ironically, Law drove up that price and was cut. In any event, this all but takes away the option to tag Clements in 06. I like him a ton as a cb, AND he returns punts, but imo, cb is just the wrong position to allocate 10 mil. worth of cap space. Winfield got more than 30 million dollars. Clements is clearly superior, and he is a very good return man. What will HE want, 40 million? 50 million? It may work out, but I am thinking that the Bills need to draft a corner on day 1 of the draft. I would have loved to get Surtain as well. I think that TD should have tried last season to extend Nate. You know, maybe he did, but looking at the whole picture, I am thinking that 05 is it for Nate as a Buffalo Bill. 255231[/snapback] QUOTE(Bill from NYC @ Feb 27 2005, 08:23 PM) >>>I will miss Jonas and Pat--but I think resigning them to big contracts are more like "Jerry O and John Holocek" moves than they are "Moulds, Schobel and Pat Williams first extension like" moves..... <<< BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the difference in style between Mr Butler and TD. With respect to Mr Butler, he was at least as good on draft day as was TD. I think that he was better. TD is a better cap man. There is ZERO reason to sign these two at a huge cap cost. They do NOT deserve to be paid like Pace and Seymour. They are not nearly as good. TD will let them walk if need be, and I respect him for it. Yes Neither of the two warrant big money. There is a person that does deserve lots of bling bling, he is the biggest play maker on our D forget the 4th downer. He is Nate Clements. The more I read into this Jonas/Pat dilemma, the more i see #22 walking right through the front door without any contract being offered to him. Come on TD show the man the money he is rightfully due!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like I said yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Oh, and as far as NC and the rest of our '06 FAs go, I guess that's why TD is playing his cards so close to the vest with Williams and Jennings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 One point about Woodson's $10.5 M. The cost of the tag for a CB is much less than that. However, after he was designated with the tag (as an exclusive rights franchise player to boot) last year, his 2004 salary was inflated -- and he commanded an increase of 20% over what he made last year, which is greater than what the franchise tender would have been this year. So, if we tag Nate, it would likely "only" be in the $7-$8 M range next year. And if some other team wants to shell out two number ones for him, that is OK too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 28, 2005 Author Share Posted February 28, 2005 One point about Woodson's $10.5 M. The cost of the tag for a CB is much less than that. However, after he was designated with the tag (as an exclusive rights franchise player to boot) last year, his 2004 salary was inflated -- and he commanded an increase of 20% over what he made last year, which is greater than what the franchise tender would have been this year. So, if we tag Nate, it would likely "only" be in the $7-$8 M range next year. And if some other team wants to shell out two number ones for him, that is OK too. 255861[/snapback] That is interesting. I hope that you are correct. What I do know is that this number was inflated by the HUGE cap cost of Ty Law. If your numbers are correct, Woodson had more than an 8 million dollar cap hit last season. Although I am not doubting you, this does seem high. Then again, Mike Williams already counts at the obscene figure of 9.17 mil. Do you remember when Woodson was selected in the first round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike32282 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I pray that TD locks him up this offseason. but if he doesn't...he will be slapped with the franchise tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 We have to keep Nate... I think he is only starting to show his brillance. He may be selfish at times, but he is an elite corner... A shut down corner... the most important (arguably) position in football today. Show Me the money... I mean, show NC the money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I'm positive about Woodson's contract situation. Last year the Raiders designated him with the Exclusive Rights tag, which cost them about $2M more than the Non-exclusive rights tag would have (namely because the ER Tag is based on the April 15 average top 5 salary). This year when they used the franchise tag again, Woodson was guaranteed either top 5 money -- or 120% of last year's salary, whichever was greater. Since he made over $8 M last year, the latter was clearly the greater number. You are right, however, that Ty Law's contract did inflate the CB franchise tag number this year. The basic cost of applying the tag on a CB was about $8.8 M this year. My guess (purely a guess) is that the tag would cost between $7 and $8 M next year, assuming no other inflated contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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