What's your personal line on Islamist Terror?

[OCinBuffalo]

By that I mean: what do they have to do for you to personally declare war on them? More specifically what data do you require, whether observed, as in the images tonight, or, their rhetoric, or whatever, to conclude that war, total war, on them, and more importantly: their ideology, is the only feasible/rational solution?

 

See, like with Global Warming, I believe that there is a distinct lack of intellectual honesty at work when it comes to this issue. In fact, I believe that for some, no such line exists for either issue. For some, there is no data set, no empirical evidence, no proof beyond all doubt...that will convince them.

 

This is because they were never honest about being convinced of anything in the first place. There are many reasons why they lie, to themselves and others, about being intellectually honest, some righteous, most nefarious. But, the reasons don't matter. Their dishonesty causes failure.

 

If one can claim "thinking person" status, then there has to be a decision point for them on every issue. Or in "Ben Franklin close" terms, a point where one side of the decision has so many pros that it completely outweighs the other side.

 

While I'm sure some of you crossed your line a long time ago, I am just as certain that others either keep moving theirs, or, simply do not have one. I am as sure that the latter two sets of people have all sorts of reasons why, as I am that those reasons are complete and utter BS.

 

Consider:

1. One cannot have a truly "open" mind if there is no closing mechanism, otherwise how can we know the difference?

2. One cannot have a "tolerant" mind if tolerances are not set, thus differentiating from what is within tolerance and what is not.

 

If one violates these simple, as they are truthful, tenets, they are simply a F'ing dumbass. Thus we must free ourselves of them, as they are intellectually useless.

 

So, I ask again: what is your line on this? What else do you need to see? Or, is your line ever moving/nonexistant? Perhaps its time to be honest with us, and more importantly: yourself.

Edited July 15, 2016 by OCinBuffalo

[DC Tom]

9/11

[bbb]

9/11

 

Yeah, I didn't like that at all.

[/dev/null]

[ALF]

Deterring someone who is going to commit suicide for his cause is a tough one.

[B-Large]

I can't afford to launch a personal war... But then again neither can our country at this point. I don't know what it would take to declare a personal Jihad. Allah Akbar!

[Cugalabanza]

...war on them?

 

Obviously, it's a huge problem. I just think that the terms "war" and "them" have to be understood in new, more complicated ways.

 

Up to now, for decades, we've sort of been dealing with the problem by throwing water on a grease fire. We have to concentrate our efforts against specific individuals and agencies and do what we can to not keep perpetuating this at-large cultural contention and hostility.

[FireChan]

 

Obviously, it's a huge problem. I just think that the terms "war" and "them" have to be understood in new, more complicated ways.

 

Up to now, for decades, we've sort of been dealing with the problem by throwing water on a grease fire. We have to concentrate our efforts against specific individuals and agencies and do what we can to not keep perpetuating this at-large cultural contention and hostility.

They hate the West. That ship has sailed. We will not walk back from that contention.

 

If two cultures are deemed incompatible, one will have to go.

[Cugalabanza]

They hate the West. That ship has sailed. We will not walk back from that contention.

 

If two cultures are deemed incompatible, one will have to go.

 

Who are "they" exactly? If you are talking in big general categories, then I think you are making a big mistake.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Who are "they" exactly? If you are talking in big general categories, then I think you are making a big mistake.

 

The arab world.

 

It's gotta be brought to heel. Permanently.

 

No more worries about human rights, just all out war till their civilization capitulates or we die.

[Cugalabanza]

 

The arab world.

 

It's gotta be brought to heel. Permanently.

 

No more worries about human rights, just all out war till their civilization capitulates or we die.

 

Ok. I can say one positive thing about your position: it's internally consistent

[FireChan]

 

Who are "they" exactly? If you are talking in big general categories, then I think you are making a big mistake.

Islamic fanatics.

 

You will not soften them by kitty footing around and being tolerant. They are zealous !@#$s who don't care. It will not be enough. It will not work.

Edited July 15, 2016 by FireChan

[Cugalabanza]

Islamic fanatics.

 

You will not soften them by kitty footing around and being tolerant. They are zealous !@#$s who don't care. It will not be enough. It will not work.

 

I agree. I just wanted to stress that you have to separate the zealots who kill innocent people from the general category "the Arab world." If you fail to do that, you only succeed in becoming a zealot yourself.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Cugalabanza

[FireChan]

 

I agree. I just wanted to stress that you have to separate the zealots (and take them out) from the general category "the Arab world."

While you and Obama and Hilldawg worry about stressing how careful we are with our language, we have trucks plowing into crowds and mass beheadings every week.

 

How has it been working? We've "stressed" tolerance and acceptance for the last 8 years as a government. ISIS went from JV to out of control. I say you are focusing on the wrong issue.

 

How long must we play by different rules with our enemies? How long must guys like Joe get **** on and we plead that he doesn't represent all of us, for zealots to not care and kill indiscriminately?

 

You are just as likely as Joe to die from terror. Plead all you want. They don't have lines. They don't see us as mostly good guys with bad apples. Why should we do the same?

Edited July 15, 2016 by FireChan

[Cugalabanza]

While you and Obama and Hilldawg worry about stressing how careful we are with our language, we have trucks plowing into crowds and mass beheadings every week.

 

How has it been working? We've "stressed" tolerance and acceptance for the last 8 years as a government. ISIS went from JV to out of control. I say you are focusing on the wrong issue.

 

Ok, this is where we depart. Good discussion.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

I agree. I just wanted to stress that you have to separate the zealots who kill innocent people from the general category "the Arab world." If you fail to do that, you only succeed in becoming a zealot yourself.

 

The arab world is the cradle from which this extremism is born.

 

If you want to end the extremism, you HAVE to make sure the consequence of extremism is even more extreme.

[4merper4mer]

 

Ok. I can say one positive thing about your position: it's internally consistent

 

 

Although it is sad, it cannot be totally dismissed as a possible outcome.

 

One alternative is to figure out a way to root out the bad apples from the basket and keep them out. There are a lot of bad apples in there and it is not always obvious which ones are the bad ones. There isn't anyone who has figured out how to do this and the problem is snowballing. IMO the best chance is for people within the religion to actively crack down on the messaging that leads to this. I said the religion and not the ME because it is clear that the anti-western messages are being taught in western countries as well. Christianity had a reformation centuries ago. It can happen. All of this is not an easy or quick fix. Many more westerners will die and it may be that the terror attacks escalate to the point that they are not discernible from traditional battles in traditional wars. What would the role of the west be in this scenario? It is hard to determine because the more the western involvement, the more messaging and recruitment can be done by the radicals.

 

The west cannot simply stand, watch and capitulate as has been the Los Gatos foreign policy of Obama and his doormat of a SoS. The "moderate" Islamic world will sadly be brought to heel one way or the other if the current trajectory is allowed to proceed for too long. The question is whether it will be brought to heel by the West, the Jihadists, or even a third party such as Russia/China. The "moderate" Islamic world has to stand up if it does not want to be brought to heal.

[LeviF]

 

I agree. I just wanted to stress that you have to separate the zealots who kill innocent people from the general category "the Arab world." If you fail to do that, you only succeed in becoming a zealot yourself.

 

You're sympathetic to LGBT rights and feminist principles, aren't you? Do I really have to point out the disconnect between these two views you seem to hold?

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Since I signed on the dotted line because of 9/11, yes I would say that did it.

 

I've acknowledged a war against radical Islam at that point.

 

Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, they are at war with us. We're fools to not take it seriously.

 

Wait till there is a beslan school style massacre here, God forbid that is a horrible fear. Wait till they get their evil hands on weapons of mass destruction. They don't care. They want to kill us, western civilized society or anyone else who doesn't subscribe to their insanity(even including terrorizing peaceful muslims).

 

I would describe radical Islam as a virus. It wants to quickly replicate itself, spread its influence, kill healthy cells and eventually kill the host, it is incompatible with civilization.

[Cugalabanza]

 

You're sympathetic to LGBT rights and feminist principles, aren't you? Do I really have to point out the disconnect between these two views you seem to hold?

 

Do you really have to assign beliefs to people you don't even know and then point out inconsistencies between these viewpoints (that, again, you have assigned), in the middle of a discussion about an issue that has nothing to do with those other issues? What are you talking about and what is the point? You seem to be in a big hurry to label me as a liberal so that you can dismiss what I have to say out of hand, on any topic.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Cugalabanza