Help from this draft-class is already fading (Williams DUI)

[Chandler#81]

You said this years draft but then added in players that were either previously drafted or traded for.

Lawson and Williams are the only ones worth mentioning of your going by the title of your own thread.

 

Yep. This thread was dead to me with the opening post. Now I'm just lurking..

[Ronin]

 

Okay, well when you're back, here's yet a 4th opportunity to respond to the same point I've made on Watkins and his supposed "inconsistency":

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-adam-harstad-on-sammy-watkins/

http://nysportsbiz.com/2016/01/04/sammy-watkins-arguably-nfls-top-wr-2nd-half-season/

 

2nd best WR in the NFL behind Antonio Brown for the last half of 2016. So sayeth the numbers. This on the team with the highest run percentage in the NFL.

 

And once again, the guy is running full speed 2 months before the season starts; the trepidation you show is overplayed.

 

As to Lawson, you are saying in the same sentence that even if he contributes he won't be a factor. That is, by literal definition, wrong. I also said what I did and did not expect out of him, so I'm not sure how and why you're confused.

 

What I am sure of, however, is that I'm done responding to you. There's no real discussion to be had if all you're wont to do is ignore what you don't like and carry on.

 

I'm back, and sorry if I'm missed a question on Watkins. I've seen almost no answers to any of the questions I've posed, at least not ones with any data to back them up. Point out where it was, but it if was as ridiculous as this one I can see why I didn't bother wasting my precious time.

 

Here's where you need help in your reasoning;

 

You cite my comment on Watkins' inconsistency, then you pull out a couple of pieces that address the "second half," which was really six games, of last season.

 

Why not just pull out all of his 100-yard games and use those? Seriously, why not? Would that make sense to you to slam comments on his inconsistency?

 

In the meantime, what about his 14 of his 29 games below 50 yards? Those don't factor into an inconsistency argument in your opinion?

 

I don't see how any objective person can possibly take you seriously. You have essentially said that his inconsistency, over two seasons that is, is BS because if you look at his last 6 games blah-blah.

 

OK, and if you look at his first 23 games then, he's averaged fewer than 4 catches per game, fewer than 60 yards/game, and one TD about every third game, and with only 5 100-yard gams among the 23. And you see no inconsistency issue?

 

Well, OK. Just don't expect me to respond to any more of these types of arguments, they're a waste of my precious time.

 

Why not just cite his games against Minny & Miami in 2014 and vs. KC, Washington, and Miami again in 2015 and be done with it.

 

As to Lawson "contributing," my definition of "contribute," which is clearly different than yours, is to play meaningful snaps. Nowhere in that definition is there anything about excelling, "being a factor."

 

I'm sure you'll disagree with that since most of you in this thread are clearly merely posting to "hang the messenger" as it were and because you don't care for my posts/style/whatever, so I'll nip this in the bud too.

 

Manny Lawson was on the field last year for 701 defensive snaps. He "contributed," at least by my definition. But was he a factor? Again, not by my definition. Perhaps he was by yours, but we really don't need "factors" like that. In fact, here's what Rotoworld says, which mimics my take which you'll slam and so now no doubt Rotoworld is a useless site by your opinion;

 

This is likely a case of a proven veteran who is slowing down and accepting a role as a rotational piece in one of the most talented defensive lines in the NFL.

 

I don't know, but that doesn't sound like he was much of a "factor" to me. Glad he was for you. Enjoy more of it.

Bang any passengers yet ?

 

 

OP Makes me miss BillsVet and BuffBillsforever.

 

Terrible job of wannabee NNN'r Too many holes in his game.

 

Funny, BillsVet and I are friends and have been for years. We have good laughs at the general posting mentality here. He and I pretty much see eye-to-eye. I've even gotten several e-mails by people knowing that I'm active in this thread having a pretty good laugh, ... not at me.

Oh dear the fifth round pick might miss some games. How will the franchise overcome this monumental setback?

 

Monumental?

 

LOL

 

Did I say that anywhere? Or was my OP a general comment on the draft maybe? Think that over and look at the OP for more than a fraction of a second and see if you can't make a little bit more sense out of it.

 

Seems to me that as a result of this DWI, JW has significantly decreased his chances of making this team. Otherwise, given Shady's injury, one that any football fan over the years recognizes as potentially problematic throughout the season, and in light of Karlos showing up like a slob and also possibly working himself off the roster if not for the poor planning of the team otherwise, JW was supposed to be an option.

 

Either way, 1st out, 5th with issues already, our 4th a joke, our 3rd a depth-player at best although one poster took issue with me and insists that that team has said that he'll start alongside Kyle and Dareus (whatever), leaving essentially Ragland as Dragonborn10 shrewdly and accurately pointed out, unless of course you have faith in our 6th rounders, who no doubt will "be a factor" if a poll here were to be taken. LOL

 

I mean yeah, issues with this draft so soon, I don't see any. LOL

 

What about Lawson, Shaq that is? Do you see the circumstances surrounding his status as possibly a monumental setback? Not sure I'd quite say "monumental," but you get the point.

 

See what happens when you take things well out of their original context. Same thing that happens when you assume. Also, horrible polemics!

This made me laugh. I think that TG thought he was doing a great job of playing devil's advocate but he's pretty terrible at it. He thinks by writing a lot his opinion becomes a fact. He has no data to support anything but is positive that he's right. Also, he backs down when challenged. BillsVet and BB4E would go down swinging; they'd never run away.

 

LOL

 

Right, I don't include facts. Apparently you've missed quite a few posts. Seriously?

 

To the contrary, we have people like bandit27 calling me out on suggesting that Sammy's totally inconsistent as he cites as his evidence 6 games taken from 29 played while ignoring the other 23.

 

ROFLMAO ... you really can't make this stuff up.

 

Meanwhile, so many responses are just like yours, not addressing the topic at all, certainly providing no data yourself, just a post out of pure emotion slamming me. That's fine, I can take it, really, actually, and oddly, I enjoy this stuff, I really do.

 

Forums, sports forums in general, are absolutely fantastic case-studies on human nature and social media.

 

Backs down when challenged?

 

Yep. This thread was dead to me with the opening post. Now I'm just lurking..

 

Really, just lurking?

 

What was that? Looked like a post to me. Oh well, I guess it's just a hallucination.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

Did the JWill DWI thread get merged into this one? They weren't the same IMO. This one was an opinion apparently about several rookies and other players. We have no idea whether "Hope is fading" with this draft class in relation to his DWI. It may not affect his contrubutions at all this year. JWill wasnt even in the title. The other thread was a news story was about him getting a DWI yesterday.

 

@thadbrown7

Our sister station in ARK, @KARK4News got in touch with agent for #Bills RB Jonathan Williams. No comment on rookie's arrest last night.

Edited July 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Ronin]

Did the JWill DWI thread get merged into this one? They weren't the same IMO. This one was an opinion apparently about several rookies and other players. We have no idea whether "Hope is fading" with this draft class in relation to his DWI. It may not affect his contrubutions at all this year. JWill wasnt even in the title. The other thread was a news story was about him getting a DWI yesterday.

 

@thadbrown7

Our sister station in ARK, @KARK4News got in touch with agent for #Bills RB Jonathan Williams. No comment on rookie's arrest last night.

 

Might have been merged, that's my thought.

 

Well, his DWI isn't a good sign. Perhaps he'll fight it and win, who knows.

 

But at least one poster has said no suspension if convicted. I doubt that, he'll get suspended even if for one or two games.

 

Either way, JW, contrary to some opinions here, was hardly a prolific rusher, he hasn't run for two seasons, and if one ventures anywhere outside of Bills forums the sentiment is the same, this is not good for his chances of making the team.

 

The single thing that he has going for him is that the team, due to its grand shortsightedness and lack of vision over the past few seasons, has no solid options behind Shady right now if his hammy lingers. Right. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

 

Karlos, even at his best was massively inconsistent last season posting a pair of monster games in his homestate of Florida but being relatively pedestrian at best otherwise with 6 completely lackluster games. Now he's overweight and out of condition to the extent that his coach doubts that he'll be ready by the time the season opens much less for camp.

 

Same with Sammy, if either go out we're screwed this season. We have a dearth of talent at both positions after both of those players.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

@JaySkurski

The preliminary report after #Bills rookie RB Jonathan Williams was arrested for DWI on Thursday in Arkansas.

 

Might have been merged, that's my thought.

 

Well, his DWI isn't a good sign. Perhaps he'll fight it and win, who knows.

 

But at least one poster has said no suspension if convicted. I doubt that, he'll get suspended even if for one or two games.

 

Either way, JW, contrary to some opinions here, was hardly a prolific rusher, he hasn't run for two seasons, and if one ventures anywhere outside of Bills forums the sentiment is the same, this is not good for his chances of making the team.

 

The single thing that he has going for him is that the team, due to its grand shortsightedness and lack of vision over the past few seasons, has no solid options behind Shady right now if his hammy lingers. Right. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

 

Karlos, even at his best was massively inconsistent last season posting a pair of monster games in his homestate of Florida but being relatively pedestrian at best otherwise with 6 completely lackluster games. Now he's overweight and out of condition to the extent that his coach doubts that he'll be ready by the time the season opens much less for camp.

 

Same with Sammy, if either go out we're screwed this season. We have a dearth of talent at both positions after both of those players.

I agree he will get suspended.Might be next year, but he will get 2 games based on the new rules. If he's not convicted, maybe it will be one game. I didn't think the two threads were the same enough to merge so thought it was surprising but no big deal.

[Ronin]

 

@JaySkurski

The preliminary report after #Bills rookie RB Jonathan Williams was arrested for DWI on Thursday in Arkansas.

I agree he will get suspended.Might be next year, but he will get 2 games based on the new rules. If he's not convicted, maybe it will be one game. I didn't think the two threads were the same enough to merge so thought it was surprising but no big deal.

 

 

I think his court date is in August, I don't think that was a hearing, I think it was his trial, I could be wrong tho, it's in the info. But if he's convicted before the season begins I suspect that the suspension will be this season.

[YoloinOhio]

 

I think his court date is in August, I don't think that was a hearing, I think it was his trial, I could be wrong tho, it's in the info. But if he's convicted before the season begins I suspect that the suspension will be this season.

IMO it would be better for him to be suspended this season.

[Mr. WEO]

 

@JaySkurski

The preliminary report after #Bills rookie RB Jonathan Williams was arrested for DWI on Thursday in Arkansas.

I agree he will get suspended.Might be next year, but he will get 2 games based on the new rules. If he's not convicted, maybe it will be one game. I didn't think the two threads were the same enough to merge so thought it was surprising but no big deal.

 

 

 

"strong odor of intoxicants"---they call that "deodorant" at the Ralph.

 

And hey, they put his cell number in there for us!

[Ronin]

 

Okay, well when you're back, here's yet a 4th opportunity to respond to the same point I've made on Watkins and his supposed "inconsistency":

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-adam-harstad-on-sammy-watkins/

http://nysportsbiz.com/2016/01/04/sammy-watkins-arguably-nfls-top-wr-2nd-half-season/

 

BTW Bandit, regarding your absurd "analysis" of Sammy's consistency citing 6 of 29 games, one more thing that I've hammered on Sammy for was his lack of YAC.

 

Here a couple of pieces substantiating that along with stats/data;

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636124/article/deandre-hopkins-wants-to-fix-his-yac-problem

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/2015-yac

 

"We have mentioned a few times this offseason about DeAndre Hopkins and Sammy Watkins being notoriously poor in YAC, but thanks to adjusting for where the ball was thrown, they do not bring up the very rear of our YAC+ list. Still, it's not a strength in their games, although Watkins has more potential there."

 

According to ESPN's statistics, Watkins ranked 177th in YAC last season.

 

Watkins was proflific in YAC at Clemson, something that analyists foolishly thought would translate well to the NFL given that most of them were on bubble-screens, plays that simply don't yield those results on any even remotely consistent basis in the NFL. But everyone knows that, right? Right?

 

That's why Watkins was drafted for two 1st's and a 4th, for his "playmaking ability after the catch." Yet, it simply hasn't materialized.

 

Until it does, if it ever does which I suspect it won't to that degree because the way he buttered his bread in college ain't happenin' at the NFL level despite all of the astute draft analysts failing to be able to recognize that, he will never realize the potential that he was drafted for. His other skills are simply not that over the top and he's far too inconsistent despite your cherry-picking a half dozen games to disprove his general caliber of play over two entire seasons.

 

We haven't even mentioned in incessant injuries here.

IMO it would be better for him to be suspended this season.

 

It probably doesn't matter, he'll probably make the team, what, are we going to cut him with Shady on the mend?

 

Who would back up Shady? Gillislee, Herron? That won't work. Unless we pick someone up from waivers he'll make the team, again, for reasons of poor planning.

 

I doubt he'll ever amount to much, but that's the lot we've crafted for ourselves, eh. I wouldn't be shocked if he gets cut if he doesn't show much tho and we go to the free agent market as a result. Hence my original concerns.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

 

BTW Bandit, regarding your absurd "analysis" of Sammy's consistency citing 6 of 29 games, one more thing that I've hammered on Sammy for was his lack of YAC.

 

Here a couple of pieces substantiating that along with stats/data;

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000636124/article/deandre-hopkins-wants-to-fix-his-yac-problem

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/2015-yac

 

"We have mentioned a few times this offseason about DeAndre Hopkins and Sammy Watkins being notoriously poor in YAC, but thanks to adjusting for where the ball was thrown, they do not bring up the very rear of our YAC+ list. Still, it's not a strength in their games, although Watkins has more potential there."

 

Watkins was proflific in YAC at Clemson, something that analyists foolishly thought would translate well to the NFL given that most of them were on bubble-screens, plays that simply don't yield those results on any even remotely consistent basis in the NFL. But everyone knows that, right? Right?

 

That's why Watkins was drafted for two 1st's and a 4th, for his "playmaking ability after the catch." Yet, it simply hasn't materialized.

 

Until it does, if it ever does which I suspect it won't to that degree because the way he buttered his bread in college ain't happenin' at the NFL level despite all of the astute draft analysts failing to be able to recognize that, he will never realize the potential that he was drafted for. His other skills are simply not that over the top and he's far too inconsistent despite your cherry-picking a half dozen games to disprove his general caliber of play over two entire seasons.

 

We haven't even mentioned in incessant injuries here.

 

 

It probably doesn't matter, he'll probably make the team, what, are we going to cut him with Shady on the mend?

 

Who would back up Shady? Gillislee, Herron? That won't work. Unless we pick someone up from waivers he'll make the team, again, for reasons of poor planning.

 

I doubt he'll ever amount to much, but that's the lot we've crafted for ourselves, eh. I wouldn't be shocked if he gets cut if he doesn't show much tho and we go to the free agent market as a result. Hence my original concerns.

imo it's better this season because we know what we have going into the season (at least as of today) and we have everyone back from last year and they were all pretty good. We had the #1 running game without him. Next year we have no idea who we will have to start the season. we might really need him. This year, would be nice to get fresh legs in week 3.

 

Anyway, here we are taking about Watkins in a thread about JWill DWI. That's why I thought it was odd the threads were merged.

Edited July 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Ronin]

IMO it would be better for him to be suspended this season.

 

I don't think it matters. If he shows anything at all he's in. If not, then I can see him being released and us picking up a FA.

 

Who's going to back up Shady with his tentative hammy status? Gillislee, Herron? Hardly. Karlos sounds as if he may be working his way off the team too. I realize he had a pair of bang-em-up games in his home state of FL last year and against the Fins here, but he also had 6 pretty pedestrian, at best, games. Consistency is an issue and he didn't start in college and won't here.

"strong odor of intoxicants"---they call that "deodorant" at the Ralph.

 

And hey, they put his cell number in there for us!

 

LOL

imo it's better this season because we know what we have going into the season (at least as of today) and we have everyone back from last year and they were all pretty good. We had the #1 running game without him. Next year we have no idea who we will have to start the season. we might really need him. This year, would be nice to get fresh legs in week 3.

 

Anyway, here we are taking about Watkins in a thread about JWill DWI. That's why I thought it was odd the threads were merged.

 

#1 Running game w/o whom?

 

And LOL on Watkins, you know how threads diverge and devolve here. Particularly when I'm involved.

 

I'm still having a good chuckle at bandits' expense about his using 6 games out of Watkins' 29 played to demonstrate that Watkins wasn't inconsistent.

[YoloinOhio]

 

I don't think it matters. If he shows anything at all he's in. If not, then I can see him being released and us picking up a FA.

 

Who's going to back up Shady with his tentative hammy status? Gillislee, Herron? Hardly. Karlos sounds as if he may be working his way off the team too. I realize he had a pair of bang-em-up games in his home state of FL last year and against the Fins here, but he also had 6 pretty pedestrian, at best, games. Consistency is an issue and he didn't start in college and won't here.

 

 

LOL

 

 

#1 Running game w/o whom?

 

And LOL on Watkins, you know how threads diverge and devolve here. Particularly when I'm involved.

 

I'm still having a good chuckle at bandits' expense about his using 6 games out of Watkins' 29 played to demonstrate that Watkins wasn't inconsistent.

without Jwill

[Ronin]

we have everyone back from last year and they were all pretty good.

 

BTW, I disagree. IMO we're going to miss Hogan. Right now we don't have his equal in the WR cadre. I suspect he'll have a great season in NE and if he gets a chance to start will post Edelman like numbers.

 

Also, we had Karlos last year, and while he's not starting material, he did lead us to a pair of wins over Miami. He was a good backup. Right now it seems a reach that he'll be ready to start the season and by the sounds of it he may have worked his way off the roster.

 

We really don't have the luxury of being able to stockpile players on our roster with hopes for October or November.

without Jwill

 

Well yeah, but that was w/o Shady having a hammy issue and with Karlos contributing heavily in a couple of games, which isn't going to be the case out of the gate anyway this season.

 

Again, to your point about the same people being here.

 

You know as well as I do that hammy injuries tend to linger throughout the season. Might not in his case, but that's the general tendency.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

 

BTW, I disagree. IMO we're going to miss Hogan. Right now we don't have his equal in the WR cadre. I suspect he'll have a great season in NE and if he gets a chance to start will post Edelman like numbers.

 

Also, we had Karlos last year, and while he's not starting material, he did lead us to a pair of wins over Miami. He was a good backup. Right now it seems a reach that he'll be ready to start the season and by the sounds of it he may have worked his way off the roster.

 

We really don't have the luxury of being able to stockpile players on our roster with hopes for October or November.

 

 

Well yeah, but that was w/o Shady having a hammy issue and with Karlos contributing heavily in a couple of games, which isn't going to be the case out of the gate anyway this season.

 

Again, to your point about the same people being here.

 

You know as well as I do that hammy injuries tend to linger throughout the season. Might not in his case, but that's the general tendency.

"everyone" = RBs. I was talking about the running game. In regards to JWill DWI. Sigh. Edited July 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Ronin]

"everyone" = RBs. I was talking about the running game. In regards to JWill DWI. Sigh.

 

Yes, I realize that, but last year Karlos wasn't a slob and McCoy didn't have a hammy issue.

 

Ryan's comments on Karlos are not good nor indicative that he'll be here and that if he is he'll be able to do what he did last season. Ryan's hopeful that Karlos can merely lose enough weight, much less be in football shape, by the time the season begins.

 

He was our top backup. He's either not going to be here or won't be in game shape, so we can't say that all of the same RBs are here, definitely not in the same circumstances that they were last season.

 

Right?

 

Gillislee and Herron can't be relied upon, that's proven. James Wilder Jr.? Hardly. He won't even make the team.

 

Unless I'm missing someone we have no bona fide backup for Shady at the moment. JW is it. If Karlos works himself into game-shape by the end of September it sounds as if we'll be lucky based on Ryan's comments.

 

This situation exists because of a lack of planning.

 

Did we really need Jones in the 4th? It'll be a miracle if he's ever better than Manuel. And a depth DT in round 3? Seems to me that a RB or WR would have been better there.

 

And of course in hindsight Lawson was a horrible pick, but hey, when your top scout in the matter is the coach's son, ...

 

As I said, I'd have drafted Treadwell in round 1 and Whitehair in round 2. We'd have been much better off and not so reliant on Watkins to heal quickly and properly and our OL issues would have leapfrogged way ahead of where they are currently.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[YoloinOhio]

 

Yes, I realize that, but last year Karlos wasn't a slob and McCoy didn't have a hammy issue.

 

Ryan's comments on Karlos are not good nor indicative that he'll be here and that if he is he'll be able to do what he did last season. Ryan's hopeful that Karlos can merely lose enough weight, much less be in football shape, by the time the season begins.

 

He was our top backup. He's either not going to be here or won't be in game shape, so we can't say that all of the same RBs are here, definitely not in the same circumstances that they were last season.

 

Right?

 

Gillislee and Herron can't be relied upon, that's proven. James Wilder Jr.? Hardly. He won't even make the team.

 

Unless I'm missing someone we have no bona fide backup for Shady at the moment. If Karlos works himself into game-shape by the end of September it sounds as if we'll be lucky based on Ryan's comments.

mccoy didn't have a hammy issue last year? Huh? What am I missing... He had one most of the year. Does he have one this year? Not that I know of. He was held out of certain drills in OTAs because of an ankle. Not a hammy. He had one last year. He doesn't have one this year. Maybe he will, but we don't know that yet. Karlos needs to lose weight before week 1. He will make the team. Not ideal but he will be fine IMO. Gillislee is same as last year. He backed McCoy up pretty well vs jets last week of the year vs number 2 run D in the league. I don't think we know anything about Wilder at this point. Edited July 15, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Ronin]

mccoy didn't have a hammy issue last year? Huh? What am I missing... He had one most of the year. Does he have one this year? Not that I know of. He was held out of certain drills in OTAs because of an ankle. Not a hammy. He had one last year. He doesn't have one this year. Maybe he will, but we don't know that yet. Karlos needs to lose weight before week 1. He will make the team. Not ideal but he will be fine IMO. Gillislee is same as last year. He backed McCoy up pretty well vs jets last week of the year vs number 2 run D in the league. I don't think we know anything about Wilder at this point.

 

Uhh, I guess you're missing that he wasn't listed as having had a hammy issue during the regular season.

 

He had a mild one in preseason, but it ended there. If not it didn't recur because the team failed to list in throughout the RS. This one is clearly worse anyway. He had a more serious injury, non-hammy, late in the season and missed what, two games.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TaskersGhost

[Maury Ballstein]

Taskers Ghost "I've even gotten several e-mails by people knowing that I'm active in this thread having a pretty good laugh.....not at me"

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[YattaOkasan]

 

Uhh, I guess you're missing that he wasn't listed as having had a hammy issue during the regular season.

 

He had a mild one in preseason, but it ended there. If not it didn't recur because the team failed to list in throughout the RS. This one is clearly worse anyway. He had a more serious injury, non-hammy, late in the season and missed what, two games.

Giants and Titans early in the year

[YoloinOhio]

 

Uhh, I guess you're missing that he wasn't listed as having had a hammy issue during the regular season.

 

He had a mild one in preseason, but it ended there. If not it didn't recur because the team failed to list in throughout the RS. This one is clearly worse anyway. He had a more serious injury, non-hammy, late in the season and missed what, two games.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/injuries?team=BUF&week=4

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/injuries?team=BUF&week=5

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/injuries?team=BUF&week=6

 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/injuries?team=BUF&week=7