Moose Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I actually prefer ebay.com; you can get CDs for $1-$2. Find a seller who's selling thousands of CDs, pick out a dozen that you want, and you get 12 disks for roughly $20. Best part is that you can rip it to a higher bitrate than you'd get online. CW 247310[/snapback] So, legally, what's the difference between buying a physical CD or the exact same album from iTunes and then ripping it to play on multiple devices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 So, legally, what's the difference between buying a physical CD or the exact same album from iTunes and then ripping it to play on multiple devices? 247398[/snapback] The legal difference is that a CD doesn't have any copy protection. Therefore, since I'm not breaking any copy protection, I'm not in violation of the DMCA. With a song downloaded from iTunes, there is DRM on it, so by circumventing the DRM, I'm in violation of the DMCA. Not that I agree with it -- the DMCA is a peice of crap that was hurried through by lawmakers who didn't know what they were talking about. But tecnically, there ya go. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 The legal difference is that a CD doesn't have any copy protection. Therefore, since I'm not breaking any copy protection, I'm not in violation of the DMCA. With a song downloaded from iTunes, there is DRM on it, so by circumventing the DRM, I'm in violation of the DMCA. CW 247404[/snapback] You're assuming of course that the seller didn't just make himself a copy before selling it. An incorrect assumption most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 You're assuming of course that the seller didn't just make himself a copy before selling it. An incorrect assumption most of the time. 247405[/snapback] Doesn't matter -- I'm not the one breaking the law in that case, the seller is. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 The legal difference is that a CD doesn't have any copy protection. Therefore, since I'm not breaking any copy protection, I'm not in violation of the DMCA. With a song downloaded from iTunes, there is DRM on it, so by circumventing the DRM, I'm in violation of the DMCA. Not that I agree with it -- the DMCA is a peice of crap that was hurried through by lawmakers who didn't know what they were talking about. But tecnically, there ya go. CW 247404[/snapback] Incorrect. Songs from iTunes can be transferred to a music CD - and thereby stripping the DRM - with only the small limitation that the same exact playlist can only be recorded 7 times. That is hardly onerous. If you wanted to re-encode that to play on a separate device - there is no problem with that either, other than the obvious quality loss. The DCMA is about *trafficking* in protected files, as stated in the regulation you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 The legal difference is that a CD doesn't have any copy protection. Therefore, since I'm not breaking any copy protection, I'm not in violation of the DMCA. With a song downloaded from iTunes, there is DRM on it, so by circumventing the DRM, I'm in violation of the DMCA. Not that I agree with it -- the DMCA is a peice of crap that was hurried through by lawmakers who didn't know what they were talking about. But tecnically, there ya go. CW 247404[/snapback] Thanks for clearing that up, CW. Here's the bottom line for me: I buy my music, I don't steal it or share it... and I'm going to play it on whatever dadgum thing I want to play it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Incorrect. Songs from iTunes can be transferred to a music CD - and thereby stripping the DRM - with only the small limitation that the same exact playlist can only be recorded 7 times. That is hardly onerous. If you wanted to re-encode that to play on a separate device - there is no problem with that either, other than the obvious quality loss. The DCMA is about *trafficking* in protected files, as stated in the regulation you posted. 247413[/snapback] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/09/pl..._dmca_takedown/ http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050106-4508.html The only thing preventing Slattery of using his iTunes music files the way he wants to is the DMCA. I'm not blaming Apple on this at all; their DRM is very consumer friendly and is pretty easy to circumvent from what I've read. In my opinion, the MPAA is the group that's forcing them to use it to "protect their assets." The DCMA has nothing to do with "trafficking" from what I've read, unless you're referring to the downloading/aquiring of the tools needed to "break" the DRM. That's why programs like DVDXCopy have been shut down - it defeats copy protection. Do a search for DCMA and garage door opener for some fun. Or DCMA and Sony and marker. Here's a great article: http://fury.com/article/1318.php Expect DRM to get even more stringent in the near future. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/09/pl..._dmca_takedown/ http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050106-4508.html I'm not blaming Apple on this at all; their DRM is very consumer friendly and is pretty easy to circumvent from what I've read. In my opinion, the MPAA is the group that's forcing them to use it to "protect their assets." The DCMA has nothing to do with "trafficking" from what I've read. That's why programs like DVDXCopy have been shut down - it defeats copy protection. Do a search for DCMA and garage door opener for some fun. Or DCMA and Sony and marker. Here's a great article: http://fury.com/article/1318.php Expect DRM to get even more stringent in the near future. CW 247422[/snapback] notice that they talk about 100% perfect copies.... In iTunes - I can choose to rip my protected songs into an unprotected format. That is allowed as per the agreement between Apple and the music companies. The DRM is stripped through the legal means of burning an audio CD. I do not believe there is a restriction in re-ripping that CD, since the sound quality would be poor. Of course, if you re-ripped it and thene mass distributed it - then you would still be liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Why anyone pays for iTunes is beyond me. I am the type of mp3 user that downloads one song off of an album because the rest of it isn't worth paying for. If I want to pay for mp3s I would just go buy the full length album. I also like to get songs from albums that aren't out yet. I've got two songs from the new Nine Inch Nails cd that comes out in May. Am I stealing, in the eyes of many, yes. Am I hurting record sales? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
envirojeff Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Incorrect. Songs from iTunes can be transferred to a music CD - and thereby stripping the DRM - with only the small limitation that the same exact playlist can only be recorded 7 times. That is hardly onerous. If you wanted to re-encode that to play on a separate device - there is no problem with that either, other than the obvious quality loss. The DCMA is about *trafficking* in protected files, as stated in the regulation you posted. 247413[/snapback] I've always wondered how used CD stores can get away with re-selling CD's? The artist gets nothing from the sale and I don't see the diff from downloading and buying used CD's ?? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Why anyone pays for iTunes is beyond me. I am the type of mp3 user that downloads one song off of an album because the rest of it isn't worth paying for. If I want to pay for mp3s I would just go buy the full length album. I also like to get songs from albums that aren't out yet. I've got two songs from the new Nine Inch Nails cd that comes out in May. Am I stealing, in the eyes of many, yes. Am I hurting record sales? No. 247588[/snapback] Actually, iTunes is Free! It's the content you pay for - at the register. Kinda like when you buy a bottle of Pepsi at the 7/11. You pay for it at the register on your way out. Hey, you never know. Some of those Pepsi bottles you actually buy have a code for a free download. It's almost like getting something for free. I'm not sure if that would appeal to you or not. I guess you could give those codes to someone that would go to the iTunes store. Say, SDS for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I've always wondered how used CD stores can get away with re-selling CD's? The artist gets nothing from the sale and I don't see the diff from downloading and buying used CD's ?? Jeff 247595[/snapback] The RIAA tried shutting down second hand CD stores back in the day. They lost miserably. The difference is that you own the CD. If you sell it to someone else, you can no longer listen to the music, only the person you sold it to can. With downloading, you take the song and now you and the original owner can both listen to the song. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Actually, iTunes is Free! It's the content you pay for - at the register. Kinda like when you buy a bottle of Pepsi at the 7/11. You pay for it at the register on your way out. Hey, you never know. Some of those Pepsi bottles you actually buy have a code for a free download. It's almost like getting something for free. I'm not sure if that would appeal to you or not. I guess you could give those codes to someone that would go to the iTunes store. Say, SDS for example. 247597[/snapback] OK so the program is free then? The songs aren't. The quality of an mp3 is not cd quality so why should I pay for it? I could tape it off the radio and in some cases get similar quality. Like I said, I buy cds from bands I like, but if a band has one song on a cd that I want I'll download it. I'm not paying 15 bucks for one song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 OK so the program is free then? The songs aren't. The quality of an mp3 is not cd quality so why should I pay for it? I could tape it off the radio and in some cases get similar quality. Like I said, I buy cds from bands I like, but if a band has one song on a cd that I want I'll download it. I'm not paying 15 bucks for one song. 247608[/snapback] you just described the beauty of iTunes. You don't pay $15 for one song. You pay $1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 you just described the beauty of iTunes. You don't pay $15 for one song. You pay $1. 247610[/snapback] Why do I want to pay 1 cent for a song that isn't CD quality? Give me CD quality songs and maybe my tune changes. mp3 is a good medium, but the technology isn't all the way there yet. If I'm paying I want CD quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Why do I want to pay 1 cent for a song that isn't CD quality? Give me CD quality songs and maybe my tune changes. mp3 is a good medium, but the technology isn't all the way there yet. If I'm paying I want CD quality. 247614[/snapback] I agree 100%... but if I owned an IPOD, MP3 would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Why do I want to pay 1 cent for a song that isn't CD quality? Give me CD quality songs and maybe my tune changes. mp3 is a good medium, but the technology isn't all the way there yet. If I'm paying I want CD quality. 247614[/snapback] unless you're an all out audiophile, 192 is gonna sound pretty god-damn close to CD quality. I think this is just an excuse as to why you download. I do it because I'm cheap and i don't care about the moral issue. But at least I'm not lying and saying "I download because I won't pay $1 for something that isnt CD quality:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Why anyone pays for iTunes is beyond me. I am the type of mp3 user that downloads one song off of an album because the rest of it isn't worth paying for. If I want to pay for mp3s I would just go buy the full length album. I also like to get songs from albums that aren't out yet. I've got two songs from the new Nine Inch Nails cd that comes out in May. Am I stealing, in the eyes of many, yes. Am I hurting record sales? No. 247588[/snapback] Because maybe it's a good thing to pay someone for work they do? Did you know iTunes has an option where you can pay $0.99 per song? Are you hurting record sales? On your own, no. But since there are a few million little thieves like you, collectively, you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_in_Indiana Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 unless you're an all out audiophile 247619[/snapback] I am. I have several thousand dollars invested in my car and home stereo systems. mp3s just don't cut it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I have several thousand dollars invested in my car and home stereo systems. 247622[/snapback] and yet you listen to NIN and Marilyn Manson... What a shame... Those "bands" would sound the same live as they would on a boom box running on 12 D batteries cranked up to 10... noise pollution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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