May Day 10 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Right from the getgo ryan admitted there were communication issues in the colts and pats games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Might as well just show some self-awareness and admit it - might make it easier for the rest of us to swallow. I did. The parenthetical 'predictably' was precisely that. So your digging in with its 100% players and 0% coaches? So you'd rather make it about me then have a critical conversation about what's clearly an issue with the team we love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I did. The parenthetical 'predictably' was precisely that. So you'd rather make it about me then have a critical conversation about what's clearly an issue with the team we love? I'm asking how you weigh the source of the issues. By asking if you think it's 100 players and 0 coaching I'm discussing the perceived sources of the issue in a discussion about the topic - pretty basic. I will admit watching you dodge it has continued to confirm my own opinions about your takes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'm asking how you weigh the source of the issues. By asking if you think it's 100 players and 0 coaching I'm discussing the perceived sources of the issue in a discussion about the topic - pretty basic. I will admit watching you dodge it has continued to confirm my own opinions about your takes though. You answered my questions with questions. We can continue this Mexican Standoff until Kingdom Come for all I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) You answered my questions with questions. We can continue this Mexican Standoff until Kingdom Come for all I care. I answered both you posed- why trust brown and why not believe in Rex each with their own numbered paragraphs of multiple bullet points on each case. The only one dodging, ducking and contorting to avoid questions is you here. Edited December 23, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I answered both you why trust brown and why not believe in Rex each with their own numbered paragraphs of multiple bullet points on each case. The only one dodging, ducking and contorting to avoid questions is you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I answered both you posed- why trust brown and why not believe in Rex each with their own numbered paragraphs of multiple bullet points on each case. The only one dodging, ducking and contorting to avoid questions is you here. I think the whole thing is bizarre. I think that best and worst part about Rex Ryan as a coach is that he puts his faith in his players. I think in many ways that faith blew up in his face this year because a couple of bad seeds on the defense thought they knew better than him. I think those players are selfish, petulant and a detriment to our team's success. And I think Rex's reputation for having his guy's back has bitten him in the ass before, and it's happening again here. I think these are dark marks against Rex's coaching acumen, but that he has more positive to offer than negative and that given his own guys and an offseason to build a defense with guys who are bought in we'll be better off than if we blew the whole !@#$ing thing up and rolled the dice with the fourth HC since 2012. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think the whole thing is bizarre. I think that best and worst part about Rex Ryan as a coach is that he puts his faith in his players. I think in many ways that faith blew up in his face this year because a couple of bad seeds on the defense thought they knew better than him. I think those players are selfish, petulant and a detriment to our team's success. And I think Rex's reputation for having his guy's back has bitten him in the ass before, and it's happening again here. I think these are dark marks against Rex's coaching acumen, but that he has more positive to offer than negative and that given his own guys and an offseason to build a defense with guys who are bought in we'll be better off than if we blew the whole !@#$ing thing up and rolled the dice with the fourth HC since 2012. How's that? What players do you believe are bad seeds? Why do you believe that cutting all the players who don't buy in to Rex's scheme (which would be blowing it up yet again) is preferable to finding another DC/HC who will utilize a strict 4-3, a scheme that the entire defense mastered in one season and got tremendous production out of? It seems to me you'd rather gut the roster of solid and Pro-Bowl caliber players and keep Rex, over finding another guy who can utilize those players the best. Why? Do you think, in one offseason, Rex can turn the defense all the way around, replace Pro-Bowl talent who will "buy in" and have top 5 defensive success? What would be better to our future success? Keeping our roster intact and using our offseason to shore up holes that already exist? Or gutting the defense, then using our offseason to fill self-inflicted holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Seems like the only pro bowl player that they are probably going to cut is Mario. I think he was gone regardless because of his cap hit and i think he knows that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 so weird - he says it has been going on all year, the players have brought it up as an issue constantly, but he still doesn't know who it is? he is full of Marios bs What players do you believe are bad seeds? Why do you believe that cutting all the players who don't buy in to Rex's scheme (which would be blowing it up yet again) is preferable to finding another DC/HC who will utilize a strict 4-3, a scheme that the entire defense mastered in one season and got tremendous production out of? It seems to me you'd rather gut the roster of solid and Pro-Bowl caliber players and keep Rex, over finding another guy who can utilize those players the best. Why? Do you think, in one offseason, Rex can turn the defense all the way around, replace Pro-Bowl talent who will "buy in" and have top 5 defensive success? What would be better to our future success? Keeping our roster intact and using our offseason to shore up holes that already exist? Or gutting the defense, then using our offseason to fill self-inflicted holes? Brown Dareus M Williams Duke W and Nigel to start with. the lazy and lost group Seems like the only pro bowl player that they are probably going to cut is Mario. I think he was gone regardless because of his cap hit and i think he knows that too. and would you have thought that at the beginning of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) he is full of Marios bs Brown Dareus M Williams Duke W and Nigel to start with. the lazy and lost group So just need to replace 4 current starters and add in someone to replace searcy, and stay healthy and Rex can produce last years results? I think that sums up some of the feeling that we could find 1 coach, and 1 player to maximize the current group instead of 5 players to hope Rex can return to peak form. Edited December 23, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenigmusx Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 First of all get rid of the !@#$ing narc who is embarrassing the organization at every turn by sending crap to guys like lacanfora. And hire an assistant who can get play calls in on time! What in the actual !@#$! Is this guy playing candy crush up in the booth?! "Candy Crush in the Booth" the 2015-2016 Buffalo Bills NFL yearbook as NFL films presents... LMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) So just need to replace 4 current starters and add in someone to replace searcy, and stay healthy and Rex can produce last years results? I think that sums up some of the feeling that we could find 1 coach, and 1 player to maximize the current group instead of 5 players to hope Rex can return to peak form. Not to mention RT, WR, QB at least. If keeping Rex meant we get two more 1st round picks, I'd be all for it. And even if we cull the bad seeds, what will happen to the lockerroom who remembered how bad things went this year? Think those guys will be quick to give up? IMO, RR already sealed his death warrant in Buffalo. It's a real brutal look to have a locker room basically mutiny on you and give up in your first year. Edited December 23, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 So just need to replace 4 current starters and add in someone to replace searcy, and stay healthy and Rex can produce last years results? I think that sums up some of the feeling that we could find 1 coach, and 1 player to maximize the current group instead of 5 players to hope Rex can return to peak form. I just wish the players bought in and did the work. i expect mid level coaching changes as par for the course. and lotsa player swaps for lack of of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 3 starters on defense speaking out is extremely concerning. Thats more than a 1/4 of the entire defense. And 2/3 of them are nfl veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 3 starters on defense speaking out is extremely concerning. Thats more than a 1/4 of the entire defense. And 2/3 of them are nfl veterans. what did corey graham say.. and Brown is hardly a veteran. Dareus is still doped up an lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Bottom line is: When the players aren't buying into the system, it is a coaching issue. When the plays aren't getting called into the players on time, it is a coaching issue. Poor use of the clock, time outs & challenges are COACHING issues!!! I hope we keep Roman, Whaley & some of the specialty coaches but Thurman, Rex and company should be sent packing. At this point we have 2 options; 1) replace the defensive & Head coaching staff or 2) Replace all the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 What players do you believe are bad seeds? Brown and Mario. Why do you believe that cutting all the players who don't buy in to Rex's scheme (which would be blowing it up yet again) is preferable to finding another DC/HC who will utilize a strict 4-3, a scheme that the entire defense mastered in one season and got tremendous production out of? Because these two have done jack **** in 2015 and Rex Ryan is 1000 more proven than either of them. And because Mario, KW, Dareus and Hughes have been together since 2012 and had one year of true greatness. And any argument to the contrary is a tremendous oversell. It seems to me you'd rather gut the roster of solid and Pro-Bowl caliber players and keep Rex, over finding another guy who can utilize those players the best. Why? Do you think, in one offseason, Rex can turn the defense all the way around, replace Pro-Bowl talent who will "buy in" and have top 5 defensive success? I have never advocating gutting the roster. That's a strawman. What would be better to our future success? Keeping our roster intact and using our offseason to shore up holes that already exist? Or gutting the defense, then using our offseason to fill self-inflicted holes? That's a false choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) What players do you believe are bad seeds? Brown and Mario. Why do you believe that cutting all the players who don't buy in to Rex's scheme (which would be blowing it up yet again) is preferable to finding another DC/HC who will utilize a strict 4-3, a scheme that the entire defense mastered in one season and got tremendous production out of? Because these two have done jack **** in 2015 and Rex Ryan is 1000 more proven than either of them. And because Mario, KW, Dareus and Hughes have been together since 2012 and had one year of true greatness. And any argument to the contrary is a tremendous oversell. It seems to me you'd rather gut the roster of solid and Pro-Bowl caliber players and keep Rex, over finding another guy who can utilize those players the best. Why? Do you think, in one offseason, Rex can turn the defense all the way around, replace Pro-Bowl talent who will "buy in" and have top 5 defensive success? I have never advocating gutting the roster. That's a strawman. What would be better to our future success? Keeping our roster intact and using our offseason to shore up holes that already exist? Or gutting the defense, then using our offseason to fill self-inflicted holes? That's a false choice. Brutal format here, but let's rock. Brown and Mario Brown and Mario only? Not Dareus? And when did Brown become a bad seed? Today, with his comments? Never really heard anything bad about him. Because these two have done jack **** in 2015 and Rex Ryan is 1000 more proven than either of them. And because Mario, KW, Dareus and Hughes have been together since 2012 and had one year of true greatness. And any argument to the contrary is a tremendous oversell. If we're saying that Mario and Brown sucked in 2015, did Rex not also suck in 2015? So that's, at the very least, a wash, no? And didn't KW, Dareus, and Mario all make the Pro-Bowl in 2013? And Jerry Hughes had double digit sacks in 2013 and 2014? Is that not pretty good to great? In fact, the year that we achieved greatness, didn't we also vastly improve our LB group? Bradham and Brown both had good to great years. So maybe the entire defensive unit didn't dominate, but the line dominating, in 2013 was due to weak(er) LB's? I mean, what changed from 2013 to 14? Got rid of a pseudo-RR scheme, went 4-3 where Bradham could really thrive, and added a decent LB starter, and we were off, right? Seems like we could do that again, no? I have never advocating gutting the roster. That's a strawman. But by virtue of advocating for Rex, you are. Do you think RR will keep Bradham, an LB who struggled in this system, but thrived in 2014? Do you think he'll keep KW, an older player, with a history of injuries, large cap hit, and no true fit on his defense? Will RR look to relegate Brown to a bench player or cut him outright? Will Mario be here? Will McKelvin be cut, for the same reasons as KW, and coming off his worst year since 2012? Will Duke Williams be here? Corey Graham, an S who struggled at times, and who also carries a large cap hit? Dareus will be here, but he's also been anti-Rex. By my count, we need to upgrade/replace about 7 positions on this defense, not to mention depth, if we keep Rex. 3 new LB's, 3 new DL's, and 2 safeties (pending on AW). How many players would we need to upgrade/replace if we fired him and went with a 4-3 guy? LB's, maybe 1 more? 1 S? No new DL's? Like I said before, RR isn't going to fill all the holes he has created on defense, and finding the upgrades on O in one season. He has literally created holes. And by advocating for him, you are advocating for more holes, and more deficiencies, and almost a total rebuild. There may be 4 players safe on this defense this offseason. 4. Four. How is that not the roster being gutted? That's a false choice. See above. It really isn't. Edit: One small point, Hughes was added in 2013. They've been together for 3 years, had two good-great years. Edited December 23, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Respond to the questions I've raised. Not to me. To be fair, you shouldn't call someone out for deflecting. You were asked point blank what a player would have to say to make you question the coaching staff and you answered with a question. Lots of defensive players? Mario, Brown and Graham today said there have been communication issues. That's three. Do you consider that "lots?" Why do you ignore all the players who say they have player issues? Why does it have to be exclusive? Could it possibly be that we have a few less-than-intelligent players and a few poor-fit players who have gotten frustrated because they just aren't meshing with what's required of them in this defense AND we have a coach who was given too much rope and it's causing issues behind the scenes/in the booth/on the sidelines? I think you're right in hounding the player aspect, but you're ignoring half the problem by doing so. To me, this is asymptomatic of the entire organization not being in a good spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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