BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Incorrect. Cap hell is where your team is hamstrung by the cap and unable to make moves because your hands are tied. This does not come close to describing the Bills' position, as evidenced by (now) 3 pages of this thread wherein we see multiple ways in which the Bills can make adjustments and free up well over 25 million in room. That's not cap hell, that's cap flexibility by definition which is exactly how good teams manage their cap. And as Bandit pointed out in the OP, the site isn't accounting for the 10+ million increase in cap room the NFL is expecting. So add another 10 onto the total and the Bills are in more than respectable shape to make moves, resign the guys they want from their own rosters, and make a few moves in UFA without losing any of their key pieces. How does that equate to cap hell again? Right... it doesn't, unless you have an ax to grind against Whaley -- whom, as most non casual football fans understand, isn't even the Bills capologist which makes the hand wringing over how he's managed the cap even more hilarious. I understand you're desperate to prove your position correct, but it helps if you look at the situation with open eyes. The bolded is exactly how it is going to play out. Even 45 million in cap room (take into account the bump) is not enough to replace the hypothetical of re-signing glenn and gilmore and replacing 6 STARTERS, other free agents, rookie pool etc. Even 50 million is not enough. This thread is a lot of pie in the sky, but in reality it is going to be much more difficult when 31 other teams are trying to fill their rosters as well. This team is not going to be better next year and it is going to be a direct result of the cap situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Incorrect. Cap hell is where your team is hamstrung by the cap and unable to make moves because your hands are tied. This does not come close to describing the Bills' position, as evidenced by (now) 3 pages of this thread wherein we see multiple ways in which the Bills can make adjustments and free up well over 25 million in room. That's not cap hell, that's cap flexibility by definition which is exactly how good teams manage their cap. And as Bandit pointed out in the OP, the site isn't accounting for the 10+ million increase in cap room the NFL is expecting. So add another 10 onto the total and the Bills are in more than respectable shape to make moves, resign the guys they want from their own rosters, and make a few moves in UFA without losing any of their key pieces. How does that equate to cap hell again? Right... it doesn't, unless you have an ax to grind against Whaley -- whom, as most non casual football fans understand, isn't even the Bills capologist which makes the hand wringing over how he's managed the cap even more hilarious. I understand you're desperate to prove your position correct, but it helps if you look at the situation with open eyes. Agreed! We are very flexible!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 The bolded is exactly how it is going to play out. And yet we have three pages showing move after possible move that can be made to free up room. So, no, the bolded is NOT how it's going to play out. Agreed! We are very flexible!! Flexibility is what counts with cap management. It's all that matters and the Bills have plenty of it thanks to the fine work of JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 And yet we have three pages showing move after possible move that can be made to free up room. So, no, the bolded is NOT how it's going to play out. You still don't understand that most of the money you free up is replacing the guys you cut to free up that money? That is the definition of being hamstrung as a GM. So your solution has been all along that you just can free up money by restructuring? I don't see any of that in this thread so please tell me your plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think they will keep Kyle and Lawson, and draft a pass rusher to replace Mario and a LB to replace Bradham. That's what I would do anyway! Agree with the rest - they are in decent shape as I don't think they will be big FA players and instead focus on re-signing their homegrown talent. Agree with keeping Kyle and Manny. Run D has suffered with Kyle out, Manny has been a great role player.. relatively inexpensive. I am fine with getting rid of Mario and Bradham and drafting linebackers that are a better/cheaper fit for Rex' system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 You still don't understand that most of the money you free up is replacing the guys you cut to free up that money? That is the definition of being hamstrung as a GM. So your solution has been all along that you just can free up money by restructuring? I don't see any of that in this thread so please tell me your plan? However the roster is structured next year, the Bills will be right up against the cap when the season starts -- as all competitive teams are. That doesn't mean the team is hamstrung or in cap hell AT ALL. The Bills have the flexibility in their cap to make moves (either cuts or restructuring existing deals) to improve this roster. That's the game, right? Aren't we both interested in continually improving the talent on the roster year in and year out? Well, that can only happen if you have the cap flexability to move on from declining players without landing yourself in cap jail. The Bills have that ability because they've managed the cap exceptionally well as of late. This is undeniable if you actually understand how the NFL cap works. What you're suggesting is that the Bills are unable to sign their own (which is false), or bring in new improved talent because they don't have cap room (also false). Being hamstrung as a GM, as you keep trying to say is the case here, means you're unable to cut a declining player because their contract has too much dead money -- that doesn't apply to any Bill on the roster who's in danger of not being here next season. So, again, you're wrong. This team is not in cap jail, they're not hamstrung at all by their cap situation. They have enough money to resign the guys they need to and add a few key pieces through the draft and UFA. The teeth gnashing about this topic is much ado about nothing -- unless you're desperate to prove your position that Whaley is terrible and McCoy was overpaid, then the aggressive way you're torturing logic in this thread makes sense... but it's still incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 You still don't understand that most of the money you free up is replacing the guys you cut to free up that money? That is the definition of being hamstrung as a GM. So your solution has been all along that you just can free up money by restructuring? I don't see any of that in this thread so please tell me your plan? I think you're half right, and half missing the mark. Yes, they're going to have to release players to free up cap room and replace them. That's not, however, because the GM did a poor job. It's because the coach's system doesn't fit the players, or perhaps better said that it's because the coach isn't willing to adjust his system to fit the players he has. Now, if you're putting the fault for that on Whaley because he hired the coach who doesn't want to shape his system around the players, that's a tangential point that I think could have merit, but we won't ever know what Rex said behind closed doors about using the current talent in his scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) However the roster is structured next year, the Bills will be right up against the cap when the season starts -- as all competitive teams are. That doesn't mean the team is hamstrung or in cap hell AT ALL. The Bills have the flexibility in their cap to make moves (either cuts or restructuring existing deals) to improve this roster. That's the game, right? Aren't we both interested in continually improving the talent on the roster year in and year out? Well, that can only happen if you have the cap flexability to move on from declining players without landing yourself in cap jail. The Bills have that ability because they've managed the cap exceptionally well as of late. This is undeniable if you actually understand how the NFL cap works. What you're suggesting is that the Bills are unable to sign their own (which is false), or bring in new improved talent because they don't have cap room (also false). Being hamstrung as a GM, as you keep trying to say is the case here, means you're unable to cut a declining player because their contract has too much dead money -- that doesn't apply to any Bill on the roster who's in danger of not being here next season. So, again, you're wrong. This team is not in cap jail, they're not hamstrung at all by their cap situation. They have enough money to resign the guys they need to and add a few key pieces through the draft and UFA. The teeth gnashing about this topic is much ado about nothing -- unless you're desperate to prove your position that Whaley is terrible and McCoy was overpaid, then the aggressive way you're torturing logic in this thread makes sense... but it's still incorrect. You have to realize what's in this thread is best case scenerio magically putting players on the roster you like. It doesn't happen in reality. Major sacrifices and tradeoffs are going to be made this off season because of the cap situation which will not make us a better team in 2016. That is reality. Edited December 15, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCD Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Auuuuuuuuuugggggggggghhhhh! The sky is falling and the Bills have to release 40 percent of their roster in order to afford anyone "good" - and then the devil will come and. CAP HELL! Pitchforks! Fire Whaley! Kim is Cheap! 2016 is ground up. [sigh] Thanks OP for the link, it certainly helped me to understand what the FO might be looking at this coming off-season. I don't think I would miss Mario, for the money... Kyle still has a few years of being a rolling ball of butcher knives left though- methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 You have to realize what's in this thread is best case scenerio magically putting players on the roster you like. It doesn't happen in reality. Major sacrifices and tradeoffs are going to be made this off season because of the cap situation which will not make us a better team in 2016. That is reality. No, what's in this thread is a bunch of Bills fans playing with the numbers. That's not best case scenario or reality -- it's just messing around. The professionals at OBD whom have been managing the cap very well are in charge and their ideas on how to manage the cap are what counts. You keep saying major sacrifices and trade offs need to be made because of the cap but that's not true. The cap will have little to do with the moves, improving the team will be the motivation for the moves. And, isn't that what you want? Haven't you spent all season on here calling out "casual fans" for not understanding that this roster isn't very talented? So, if that's the case wouldn't you want the Bills to have to sacrifice players and make trade offs? You can't have it both ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) No, what's in this thread is a bunch of Bills fans playing with the numbers. That's not best case scenario or reality -- it's just messing around. The professionals at OBD whom have been managing the cap very well are in charge and their ideas on how to manage the cap are what counts. You keep saying major sacrifices and trade offs need to be made because of the cap but that's not true. The cap will have little to do with the moves, improving the team will be the motivation for the moves. And, isn't that what you want? Haven't you spent all season on here calling out "casual fans" for not understanding that this roster isn't very talented? So, if that's the case wouldn't you want the Bills to have to sacrifice players and make trade offs? You can't have it both ways... I agree with the overhaul completely to correct some cap hell, but I just hope it is another GM doing it. I'm all for short term pain if there is long term gain especially when there isn't any short term winning. Yes, the casuals are going to be going crazy next year when year 2 under Rex and the team still won't be in the playoffs...that's ok by me if there is an overhaul like what is talked about in this thread...just hope Whaley is not the one pulling the strings. Edited December 15, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I agree with the overhaul completely to correct some cap hell, but I just hope it is another GM doing it. I'm all for short term pain if there is long term gain especially when there isn't any short term winning. Yes, the casuals are going to be going crazy next year when year 2 under Rex and the team still won't be in the playoffs...that's ok by me if there is an overhaul like what is talked about in this thread...just hope Whaley is not the one pulling the strings. He will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Incorrect. Cap hell is where your team is hamstrung by the cap and unable to make moves because your hands are tied. This does not come close to describing the Bills' position, as evidenced by (now) 3 pages of this thread wherein we see multiple ways in which the Bills can make adjustments and free up well over 25 million in room. That's not cap hell, that's cap flexibility by definition which is exactly how good teams manage their cap. And as Bandit pointed out in the OP, the site isn't accounting for the 10+ million increase in cap room the NFL is expecting. So add another 10 onto the total and the Bills are in more than respectable shape to make moves, resign the guys they want from their own rosters, and make a few moves in UFA without losing any of their key pieces. How does that equate to cap hell again? Right... it doesn't, unless you have an ax to grind against Whaley -- whom, as most non casual football fans understand, isn't even the Bills capologist which makes the hand wringing over how he's managed the cap even more hilarious. I understand you're desperate to prove your position correct, but it helps if you look at the situation with open eyes. "Cap hell" = when posters start putting their uninformed, defensive crusade posts in all caps because most have stopped paying attention Edited December 15, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 "Cap hell" = when posters start putting their uninformed, defensive crusade posts in all caps because most have stopped paying attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 Giving this thread a bump... The Spotrac tool now includes a feature that allows for manual salary cap figure adjustments, which can give you an idea about the effects of pay cuts, renegotiating, etc. Also, you can now sign FAs (including your own) and input cap figures. Go play around with it...I think some of you may be surprised at how much cap flexibility this team has... http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/buffalo-bills/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I was looking for this thread earlier, thanks. Found this interesting - The Bills are #1 in the league in number of players currently under contract per Spotrac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 I was looking for this thread earlier, thanks. Found this interesting - The Bills are #1 in the league in number of players currently under contract per Spotrac Yep...one other thing to note: only the top 51 count against the cap, so be sure to cut down to 51 players so that you can see the actual cap number they're carrying right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 @rand_getlin I'm told the NFL's salary cap is expected to jump to at least $155M this year. Nearly $12M more than last year's ($143.28M). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 @rand_getlin I'm told the NFL's salary cap is expected to jump to at least $155M this year. Nearly $12M more than last year's ($143.28M). Shocking, it's almost like people have been predicting that for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 @rand_getlin I'm told the NFL's salary cap is expected to jump to at least $155M this year. Nearly $12M more than last year's ($143.28M). Spotrac has Bills cap number of top 51 as of today at $158M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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