Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Like I stated earlier I think part of the big reason why they let Levitre leave was that he wasn't considered a very good run blocker. Had he been graded as a better run blocker I think the team would have kept him, and paid him. This also might be the thinking with Glenn, as he isn't graded as a top run blocker either. Its a foolish thinking IMO considering how well the man pass blocks considering the lack of talent next to him. The LT position is the next most important position on offense other then QB IMO, and the Bills finally have another good one. Judging from the manure that Buddy Nix used to spread around about the O line players. That good line players can be found in the later rounds. That OG's are a dime a dozen, and an OT can be moved inside to play OG with success. How have those ideas worked out the last few years? But I also think that philosophy from the Bills FO has been around for quite sometime. How long did it take to replace Jason Peters, four years? The team never replaced all pro Ruben Brown. Its seems like its been all RB's, DB's in the first round the last 15 years Even Levite and Wood weren't the first picks in their respective rounds. Both a direct result of the Jets NT Kris Jenkins taking on both OG's and the center, and still getting to the QB. Jauron finally stopped having nightmares about Brady to Moss, and realized he needed to protect his QB better. So he drafted for the line instead of DB's. The Bills simply haven't put forth that much effort into building a top line since the Jim Kelly days with Wilford, Ritchter, Hull who were all pro bowlers or the AFL days when all five O linemen were all pros and they won championships. Like I said, the lack of a top line is probably a big reason as to why no QB since Kelly has been able to become something other then "he sucks!". All of your assumptions are based on outdated models and an organizational structure that no longer exists in Buffalo. You're ranting against the past when we're living in the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 We don't know that. This team let Andy Levitre walk at the end of 2012 and still hasn't adequately replaced him, except perhaps on paper a few times. For some unknown reason this team puts far more value on the defensive side of the line then they do the offensive side. Probably the biggest reason the team can't elevate the QB position to something other then "he sucks!" No we let Levitre walk because of the MASSIVE contract he got in free agency And look what happened to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 All of your assumptions are based on outdated models and an organizational structure that no longer exists in Buffalo. You're ranting against the past when we're living in the present. Read the quote above my avatar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Read the quote above my avatar... And what exactly is that supposed to mean? i dont get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 This thread has become popcorn-worthy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Read the quote above my avatar... It's a silly quote to use in reference to the Bills of 2015. Which is why your entire debbie-downer outlook is so flawed. I'm not saying you won't be proven right in the end that Whaley is terrible and the line is awful and the Bills are going to miss out on the playoffs again (you may be spot on with all of those) but your reasoning for getting there will still be incorrect. If they fail it won't be because it's "the same old Bills". This isn't the same team. It's a new owner who brought with him an entire culture change with just his willingness to open his pocket book. Money isn't the cure-all, but if you can't look at this team with excited eyes as it stands today, then you'll never be able to get excited about the Bills. Edited June 4, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 No we let Levitre walk because of the MASSIVE contract he got in free agency And look what happened to him Just my take but I think they would have made him a higher decent offer before he became a free agent had he been a better run blocker, and who knows what happens if he had stayed in Buffalo. Clearly he was much better playing next to Glenn, and Wood. He was the one linemen that played in every game since being drafted. Whereas Eric Wood went on IR every year his first three years. Levitre still has started every game for the Titans the last two years, and he has yet to miss a single game. I also think the offensive coaching he got under Dowell Loggains, and now Jason Michael leave something to be desired. The Titans have used a lot of resources on their line the last few years, and it hasn't paid off very well. Doug Marrone, Nate Hackett are laughing at the Titans. Yea, no way he was worth what the Titans paid him. Now it looks a lot like Glenn might be headed for a similar big payday should the Bills decide to not even make him a decent offer, and decide he isn't worth keeping over the star defensive players. Was he worth that mega contract he got, heck no! Was he worth keeping at a reasonable price before he went into his contact year, heck yeah! From what I see is this team still puts more importance on keeping its defensive starting players then offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 From what I see is this team still puts more importance on keeping its defensive starting players then offensive This is a ridiculous conclusion to draw from ONE full off season with the new organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 This is a ridiculous conclusion to draw from ONE full off season with the new organization. On offense, hasn't it really been more about purging and improving? Would you rather have Stevie than Sammy? Or CJ than Shady? Or Chandler than Clay? Who have we failed to retain on offense that really needed to be in the past two years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 On offense, hasn't it really been more about purging and improving? Would you rather have Stevie than Sammy? Or CJ than Shady? Or Chandler than Clay? Who have we failed to retain on offense that really needed to be in the past two years? Exactly. That's the hilarious part of FeartheLosing's argument. He argues the Bills have been terrible at assessing and collecting talent -- but argues we should fight harder to keep our below NFL standards talent just because they're "one of ours". It's a silly argument, one being made by someone who is more interested in clinging to the past than looking to the future. And the future for Buffalo is BRIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) And the future for Buffalo is BRIGHT. That comment right there, coupled with the shaded emoticon, was quite cheeky indeed good-sir. I'd have gone with the other shade guy though... Edited June 4, 2015 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Kromer is right, but i think you are taking it a little to serious/literal too. it is a challenge on any given play but if a guy is consistently beat, or loses 1-1 you can still identify strengths/weaknesses. Coaches, GMs, and others evaluate lineman all the time without knowing exact blocking assignments. ideally you can identify what is being coached by looking at a volume of plays and how guys react to situations. if to be taken totally firm that you cant evaluate lineman without knowing the play call, scouting your opponent, signing free agents, and drafting guys is throwing darts blindly. if evaluating a single play, sure thing, its VERY difficult, but if evaluating a season in totality.... you get a lot more insight into whats going on and those volume grades for the year should give you atleast a LITTLE insight into good, bad, or ugly -- even if a 3 vs a 7 may be arbitrary based on a handful of plays getting scored wrong (unless you think they scored a guy wrong very consistently, which could happen - but go ahead and argue that on a specific case i say) Firstly, I think there is no denying that the Bills OL last year was subpar. I'm not arguing that. Yes, Coaches, GMs and other lineman evaluate lineman without knowing assignments, I'm not disputing that. They are professionals, although they get it wrong sometimes too. And a lot of the times it is throwing darts blindly, how many FA signing, draft signings haven't worked out? Thousands. There isn't one GM or Coach out there who get's there evaluation correct every time. The problem I have with PFF is they are fans, they have no ties to the NFL and have never been scouts. If you look at what I posted about what they look for in their "analysts" it's a far cry from anyone who I would consider "qualified". They don't digest plays. They are taught to look at a play, then rate each player's effect on that play. That's it. It's not the same person doing the rating either, so the opinions could vary greatly. They also show a lot of favoritism. "Player X is a good player and I couldn't tell if it was his fault or Player Y's but I'm going to give Player X the benefit of the doubt." We then get posters here who take those numbers and throw it around, like it's fact. As if some qualified person made that assessment of player X. If you had each member on this board watch a game and assign grades to each player, the scores would vary greatly. Some would grade harsher than others. If we did that for an entire season the numbers would vary even more. Possibly in some cases by 30-40 point swings. Did PFF get it right that the Bills line for the totality of the season wasn't very good? Yea they sure did. Are they correct when they call Henderson "putrid"? This is were I take their rating of individual with a massive grain of salt and I certainly wouldn't base my opinion on Henderson on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just my take but I think they would have made him a higher decent offer before he became a free agent had he been a better run blocker, and who knows what happens if he had stayed in Buffalo. Clearly he was much better playing next to Glenn, and Wood. He was the one linemen that played in every game since being drafted. Whereas Eric Wood went on IR every year his first three years. Levitre still has started every game for the Titans the last two years, and he has yet to miss a single game. I also think the offensive coaching he got under Dowell Loggains, and now Jason Michael leave something to be desired. The Titans have used a lot of resources on their line the last few years, and it hasn't paid off very well. Doug Marrone, Nate Hackett are laughing at the Titans. Yea, no way he was worth what the Titans paid him. Now it looks a lot like Glenn might be headed for a similar big payday should the Bills decide to not even make him a decent offer, and decide he isn't worth keeping over the star defensive players. Was he worth that mega contract he got, heck no! Was he worth keeping at a reasonable price before he went into his contact year, heck yeah! From what I see is this team still puts more importance on keeping its defensive starting players then offensive like Kiko? But I don't think its a defensive vs offensive player philosophy. It's talent/upside/production and scheme fit of the player, and how/if it can be replaced in effort to manage the cap. regardless of position. As we have had so many coaching/scheme fit changes over recent years, this becomes quite a challenge to keep up with. It's not ideal, and needs to become stable. The Bills are fortunate to have some players on D who are very versatile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 That comment right there, coupled with the shaded emoticon, was quite cheeky indeed good-sir. I'd have gone with the other shade guy though... Good call. That smiley is way more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natedawg3535 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 With an eye towards our run heavy attack....here's me just highlighting some of our weapons and how we might scheme our personal on Sundays QB-Tyrod Taylor/ has a chance to be special in this offense with mostly short intermediate timing routes with the occasional deep shot and of course getting heavily involved with his 4.4 legs RB-Lesean McCoy/Action Jackson Both our backs have terrific hands and shady is special in space and trust me Fred is gonna be explosive with Shady taking the bulk of the carries FB-Felton/Connor-the "Regulators" the "gut thumpers" I am excited to finally have TWO good fullbacks nevermind one. WR-Sammy Watkins/ just imagine how creative we can get on reverses and sweeps with our WRs plus $ammy is just money in the bank. WR-Percy Harvin/Jet sweeps and delayed draws and bubble screens galore WR-Marquise Goodwin/ we dont throw it to him unless he is at least 30 yards downfield.....preferably deeper WR-Robert Woods/Chris Hogan the "technicians" and underneath guys TE-Chuck Clay/ match up mismatch ...............Finally a difference maker at TE oh yeah and we drafted Nick O'leary LT-Cordy Glenn- our best blocker LG-R.Incognito -the "N" in Nasty C-Eric Wood-the skilled technician RG-John Miller- heavy hand puncher opening lanes RT-Cyrus Kouandjio /remember his specialty coming out was physical run blocker and hes out to prove he's no bust this line doesnt need to be great pass protectors in this offense......I am excited for this offense especially if Tyrod wins the qb job......I am gonna think of our defensive specialties next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 With an eye towards our run heavy attack....here's me just highlighting some of our weapons and how we might scheme our personal on Sundays QB-Tyrod Taylor/ has a chance to be special in this offense with mostly short intermediate timing routes with the occasional deep shot and of course getting heavily involved with his 4.4 legs RB-Lesean McCoy/Action Jackson Both our backs have terrific hands and shady is special in space and trust me Fred is gonna be explosive with Shady taking the bulk of the carries FB-Felton/Connor-the "Regulators" the "gut thumpers" I am excited to finally have TWO good fullbacks nevermind one. WR-Sammy Watkins/ just imagine how creative we can get on reverses and sweeps with our WRs plus $ammy is just money in the bank. WR-Percy Harvin/Jet sweeps and delayed draws and bubble screens galore WR-Marquise Goodwin/ we dont throw it to him unless he is at least 30 yards downfield.....preferably deeper WR-Robert Woods/Chris Hogan the "technicians" and underneath guys TE-Chuck Clay/ match up mismatch ...............Finally a difference maker at TE oh yeah and we drafted Nick O'leary LT-Cordy Glenn- our best blocker LG-R.Incognito -the "N" in Nasty C-Eric Wood-the skilled technician RG-John Miller- heavy hand puncher opening lanes RT-Cyrus Kouandjio /remember his specialty coming out was physical run blocker and hes out to prove he's no bust this line doesnt need to be great pass protectors in this offense......I am excited for this offense especially if Tyrod wins the qb job......I am gonna think of our defensive specialties next nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hey this new series from PFF almost proves FTL's point about the FO caring more about retaining defense than offense: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/04/snaps-lost-buffalo-bills/ But still, also proves the point that we shouldn't have retained a lot of that offensive "talent" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 @RQUINN619 All-22 Look At #Bills Cordy Glenn’s Fit In Greg Roman’s Offense http://famba.se/1C73Ub6 via @TheBillsMafia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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