3rdand12 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Haha, thanks! I knew I might be opening a can of worms... Yeah, I wish there was a comprehensive list showing whether or not a big gain was wiped out by a penalty, but there's not, and short of going through every game and marking them all down, there's really no way to find out. Holding is definitely a big one, and when I do get around to doing a more thorough analysis (likely once the season's over), it will definitley be factored in in some respect. I look forward to a more serious review during the offseason. May i add i hope the Mods will allow us a study of sorts with more detailed and hard data to review a group. Then i expect to B word anyways ! But i do like getting a better understanding of the details. One of the reasons i participate on the board actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The prove is in the pudding. You saw the head butt picture with the ref looking right at them. Bills player with no helmet. How could you miss it? Like they said. Announcers even questioned calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 And than when the playoffs start the penalties go away and every one is happy. When will the NFL learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 This is one of the better threads I have read on the subject. IMO the people who are focusing on the timing of certain calls and not just overall penalty stats are absolutely right. Joe Jackson hit .375 in the 1919 World Series. Does that prove he wasn't in on the conspiracy? Of course not. When did he get his hits? Etc etc. It's like shaving points in basketball. You don't have to suck. You just have to miss a shot here, a pass there, maybe let a guy get past you once. Six points right there on three plays. Enough to do the job in most games. Now do I think it's a fix? No, not really. I think it's more of a subliminal bias. Just enough to change a call here or there. That's all it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontFan Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Just the fact that the NE offense has benifited from over 180 yards on pass interference calls, while the Bills have only gotten 16, seems a little odd, especially when we see plays every week in which Sammy et al. get mauled, and PI could justifiably be called. It just seems like the rich getting richer to me; Brady doesn't need extra pass interference calls to win, but he gets them because he's Tom Brady and if he doesn't hit his receiver there must be some sort of flag on the play, amiright? It's not a fix, but it's bias and it's real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Bill Leavy.the ref that wears the Tommy Brady jersey under his uniform ? We are screwed. I think he doubles as that minute man who fires that musket at pats games. Well I guess I can do something else . It`s not fun being a Bills fan ,when you know your going to get screwed on a big play. Everybody here saying where`s the flag. Then there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Tell Marrone to have his players disciplined and they won't happen. It is the lack of discipline that causes these penalties not some crazy conspiracy theory. It was almost embarrassing to be at the Denver game on Sunday. all i ever ask is to be consistent and they aren't ....starts with the Robey phantom penalty on third down no less, continues with the Gilmore 100% completely legal hit also on third down both those drives ended in touchdowns. Those were 2 of the Broncos 3 touchdowns, HUGE calls not to mention not questionable just flat out WRONG. Their discipline is a problem but brutal officiating has been a bigger problem for atleast 6 years. As a sports official myself I pay attention to that maybe a little more than some, also getting some guys run around the field with elite athletes they might want to start hiring guys under 75 years old. just found out it's the kid Bill Leavy 69 years old, the pup of the group Edited December 13, 2014 by CardinalScotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Like I said. Do something else if Leavy is in town. You`ll feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Just did a little bit of cursory digging into penalty stats, and what I found is interesting, to say the least. Not that it tells the whole story, but it paints an intriguing picture. I'm planning on doing a more thorough analysis when I get the chance, so I apologize if you think I'm "cherry picking" data. Here's what I did: Basically I wanted to see if teams like Seattle, New England, and Denver recived a higher percentage of "big calls" than the Bills. Because I don't have time right now to go through all the penalties, I went with three that are often seen as drive extenders/killers: defensive PI, offensive PI, and defensive holding. The teams I looked at were the top five for most penalized (SEA, TB, NE, DEN, BUF). Not the most scientific method, I know, but I plan to look at the whole league eventually. The league average on the season for these three penalties is: 15% of total penalties; 21% of total penalty yards. Out of the penalty totals for each team, these three calls represent... Called against SEA: 15% of total calls against; 22% of total yards against TB: 11% of total calls against; 9% of total yards against DEN: 16% of total calls against; 19% of total yards against NE: 22% of total calls against; 23% of total yards against BUF: 18% of total calls against; 28% of total yards against Called for SEA: 21% of total calls for; 27% of total yards for TB: 10% of total calls for; 12% of total yards for DEN: 22% of total calls for; 29% of total yards for NE: 26% of total calls for; 38% of total yards for BUF: 11% of total calls for; 11% of total yards for So yeah, make of that what you will. Clearly these momentum swinging calls are not going in the Bills' favor nearly as often as they are for SEA, NE, and DEN. The Bills commit these penalties at a rate higher than the league average, while the three big dogs are hovering right around it. I'm not saying refs are fixing games, I'm just looking at numbers. I plan on looking at a wider section of calls across the whole league, and maybe, if I have time, factor in down and quarter. I know this doesn't tell the whole story and there are a myriad of other factors to look at, but you can't say it's not intriguing. Very interesting, certainly suggests refs are influencing games. I think I read somewhere that on one of the run backs, a bronco player chop blocked one of ours. So one of our players got pissed which was the unnecessary roughness penalty or whatever. Should our players display discipline? Absolutely. The point is though, that the Denver player wasn't called on the chop block. How often are they not called? It is openly admitted that the NFL is widely inconsistent. You say our players should show discipline? Maybe they are just as exasperated at the inconsistent officiating as us? Maybe they are getting frustrated because football is a rain of yellow that widely affects the outcome of games. Good point. I hope Pegula demands that the NFL get its act together on this inconsistent reffing. And thats being the kind way of putting it. Edited December 13, 2014 by Fan in San Diego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiostyle Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 A lot of people who eat, breathe and live nfl football like myself do not think the refs are out to screw the Bills. However, there is a strong argument that the nfl and the media favor the most popular teams with the quarterbacks every one loves to see play. The pats and broncos may have more penalties overall but the timing of penalties is more important than the total number. I am not a conspiracy theorist at all but I am starting to think refs have an influence on the game intentionally. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that when the pats play the broncos or green bay plays seattle in the playoffs these games will generate massive more amounts of viewers and ultimately money. ^This Its when the penalties occur that's most important. Its also not against the Bills, but for certain faces of the league. I'm convinced that a functional parts of the Pat's offense is knowing that throwing deep they'll get calls if the receiver pretends to be jarred by contact. Other teams do not get those calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 ^This Its when the penalties occur that's most important. Its also not against the Bills, but for certain faces of the league. I'm convinced that a functional parts of the Pat's offense is knowing that throwing deep they'll get calls if the receiver pretends to be jarred by contact. Other teams do not get those calls. Yes I agree, its called fixing a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) let me axe this question- does anyone agree that last season the refs often seemed to give the bills breaks on key plays that allowed them to sustain drives? just my overall impression from last year. probably the only season where i felt they were the recipient of favorable calls. speculation would say that they did not want the bills to be awful, especially with a headline making QB daft pick. this year it seems that they want to hold the bills back. Edited December 14, 2014 by jethro_tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 let me axe this question- does anyone agree that last season the refs often seemed to give the bills breaks on key plays that allowed them to sustain drives? just my overall impression from last year. probably the only season where i felt they were the recipient of favorable calls. speculation would say that they did not want the bills to be awful, especially with a headline making QB daft pick. this year it seems that they want to hold the bills back. I don't remember specifically, but would jive into the concept of the NFL shaping the outcome of games and season to build up a chosen team. You would have to analyze last years stats against a large stats pool. But everything changes from year to year so probably wouldn't hold up statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumblefish Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) officials will throw the Bills a lot of flags. This can be a physical and mental. challenges or setbacks will be plentiful through out the game The teams/players that who are able to rise up and surpass the referee calls and the other team, are the players/teams who know to handle these calls How will the Bills react the next time they are flagged, Will the players/team complain about it ?? Will they sulk, hang their heads, or will they hold their heads up and be ready for the next play. The choices they make will determine the outcome of the game.... it's not about getting penalized, it's about what you do when it happen Edited December 14, 2014 by rumblefish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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