BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 yeah, Kyle's learning the Bills O, just like EJ was. these same arguments to pump up Orton are the same "excuses" people use to lay blame on EJ. Woods is learning same as last season How many combined games were either CJ or FJ injured last season? poorly rated O-Line https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/2/ etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Interesting (to me, anyways) analysis - not that Jerry is one of my favs, mind you. http://www.buffalone...ighted-20141027 Sully is always the contrarian. When other's say black, he says white. But I'm more used to him being negative when others are positive. His defense of Hackett when everyone else criticizes our OC surprises me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 This offense is a product of Marrone's scheme and philosophies. He's ultra conservative so that's how we gameplan on offense. Or at least that's how it looks like we gameplan. Perhaps Hackett is limited to what Marrone wants to do. We don't really know. All I know is that I'm not going to try and convince myself that our offense and production is good because it hasn't been. Marrone inherited a pretty solid offensive line and a top 5 running unit and both units have regressed significantly since he took over. I've criticized Hackett a lot over the last year and now I'm starting to believe that Marrone may be the problem. Bingo + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfk Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hackett is the whipping boy Marrone's behind the curtain Orton is the puppet master Of this I am certain Even drunk he knows more than the coaches. The OL will jell once they realize that Orton is their ticket to bigger and better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightener Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) I will agree that Hackett is a good OC. He certainly hasn't proven that he's not good. yes he has, in spades, his playcalling vs the situation is stupid, he runs from the shotgun too much, he wont run on third and 2 or 3 ever. He cant seem to call plays where a guy can get 5 yards when its 3rd n 4, instead we throw deep and incomplete....or take sacks. He does nothing imaginative. And worse he has routes set up where guys all run streaks or all hook instead of clear outs and short middle deep options. How well has goodwin been used btw? guy runs a 4.2 and has what, 2 passes thrown deep to him all year? How well was spiller being used in the passing game? the guy is a joke and the worst oc weve had since kevin Killdrive. I love the excuse making...its always the oline, thats why trent sucked, thats why cj sucks etc. how about ej sucks and cj sucks and Hacketts sucks? How about that? Edited November 1, 2014 by enlightener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 We are 24th in points per drive despite being 2nd in field position. Even in our most explosive game we didn't convert our turnovers into points at a rate that would even be considered average. Chunk yards and turnovers are great but acting like they are the only two stars that matter is silly. We are leading that metric and it's showing up with the 21st ranked scoring team. We show flashes of high ability but do not capitalize on it like a truly great team should. First downs are how you beat the other team. The more you can get the better.I dont feel too secure that big plays will take the Bills to the holy land. Keeping the ball in your Offenses hand creates a number of advantages. To do that you need to maintain drives , Generally speaking. Converting for first downs is probably a very effective way to accomplish just that. Maybe by the end of the season Bills Offense will finally get the hang of pushing the ball off the line scrimmage. even when the box is loaded I have always liked Hackett and Marrone. Not always happy with them by any means but i am rooting for them just the same. as we all are in our own special way Hackett is the whipping boy Marrone's behind the curtain Orton is the puppet master Of this I am certain Even drunk he knows more than the coaches. The OL will jell once they realize that Orton is their ticket to bigger and better things. Prophetic words my friend ! interesting insight too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 First downs are how you beat the other team. The more you can get the better. I dont feel too secure that big plays will take the Bills to the holy land. Keeping the ball in your Offenses hand creates a number of advantages. To do that you need to maintain drives , Generally speaking. Converting for first downs is probably a very effective way to accomplish just that. Maybe by the end of the season Bills Offense will finally get the hang of pushing the ball off the line scrimmage. even when the box is loaded I have always liked Hackett and Marrone. Not always happy with them by any means but i am rooting for them just the same. as we all are in our own special way Prophetic words my friend ! interesting insight too. 1st downs/game? 31st in league. Not good, but we knew this. Bad play calling IMO. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2014&seasonType=REG&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=FIRST_DOWNS_GAME_AVG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 1st downs/game? 31st in league. Not good, but we knew this. Bad play calling IMO. http://www.nfl.com/s..._DOWNS_GAME_AVG I dont have a defense against your statement . I would suggest its both execution and play calling. They of course both effect the other. and yes we knew this. Last week was a glaring example. I am hoping they are getting some rhythm with the two new- ish running backs and maybe some spark back. CJ out might be a good thing for Nate. just a thought. Dixon seems like a Marrone type of back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 In his interview on the John Murphy Show, Orton said an interesting thing, which I believe he was referring to the Jet game but I'm not sure. He said Hackett called for a few more deep passes downfield, but Orton said lately he himself has been doing a lot of checking at the LOS. He was implying that the Bills had success throwing deep and Hackett kept on calling it, but the defense that Orton saw on the passes he threw downfield were the ones he thought he could exploit, so he threw it, and there were other plays where the same play was called, but the defense was set up to prevent it, so he checked down (presumably to runs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 In his interview on the John Murphy Show, Orton said an interesting thing, which I believe he was referring to the Jet game but I'm not sure. He said Hackett called for a few more deep passes downfield, but Orton said lately he himself has been doing a lot of checking at the LOS. He was implying that the Bills had success throwing deep and Hackett kept on calling it, but the defense that Orton saw on the passes he threw downfield were the ones he thought he could exploit, so he threw it, and there were other plays where the same play was called, but the defense was set up to prevent it, so he checked down (presumably to runs). Which means what? My solution is let Orton call the whole game and fire Hackett, since I believe he adds nothing to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Which means what? My solution is let Orton call the whole game and fire Hackett, since I believe he adds nothing to the game. Which means one or more of the run-run-pass series Hackett may have called a bomb to Watkins on one of the run plays but Orton saw the defense and checked out to a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 In his interview on the John Murphy Show, Orton said an interesting thing, which I believe he was referring to the Jet game but I'm not sure. He said Hackett called for a few more deep passes downfield, but Orton said lately he himself has been doing a lot of checking at the LOS. He was implying that the Bills had success throwing deep and Hackett kept on calling it, but the defense that Orton saw on the passes he threw downfield were the ones he thought he could exploit, so he threw it, and there were other plays where the same play was called, but the defense was set up to prevent it, so he checked down (presumably to runs). Why presumably to runs? Wouldn't he normally just go to a different receiver on a different route who isn't double covered? I say this because you don't "check" down to runs. You audible to runs. You "check down" to different receivers running shorter routes when the defense takes away the deep route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Why presumably to runs? Wouldn't he normally just go to a different receiver on a different route who isn't double covered? I say this because you don't "check" down to runs. You audible to runs. You "check down" to different receivers running shorter routes when the defense takes away the deep route. He implied, I thought, that they were audibles not check downs after the ball was snapped. i'm pretty sure he was referring to pre-snap reads of the defense and not post-snap, because just earlier IIRC he was talking about the last couple games he was making more line calls (audibles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 He implied, I thought, that they were audibles not check downs after the ball was snapped. i'm pretty sure he was referring to pre-snap reads of the defense and not post-snap, because just earlier IIRC he was talking about the last couple games he was making more line calls (audibles). Okay cool. It would be nice to know more about it. It would be really cool to know which specific plays he was talking about and when they happened during the game. Maybe Hackett deserves a little more rope that he can choose to hang himself with or not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonprophet Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Hackett with his simplistic, predictable run, run, pass which equates to decent run up the middle, run up the middle for no gain or negative yards, pass on third and long isn't the recipe for success. The way I look at things the season will depend more on Kyle Orton making plays with his own ingenuity then the way Hackett runs the offense. Maybe it's time to go back to the no-huddle and let KO call the plays at the line? Edited November 3, 2014 by nonprophet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 In time you will come to accept Marrone's wisdom. Everyone wanted Crossman fired. He was "in over his head" a "crony" etc. Suddenly we seem to have forgotten all of this, and there are positive articles on Crossman (one of which is linked on the main page of TBD). Marrone was right on him, as he is right on Hackett. Trust in St. Doug, and buy in. The man is too arrogant and stubborn to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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