buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I'm not saying the rule enforcement is good or bad - though I do understand it's intent is to minimize the health risk to the long snapper on the play - which I believe to be a good thing. I'm just saying it's a commonly seen practice throughout the league that is not just limited to the Pats as some of the critics seem to be implying. Fair enough. I agree that there are other teams that get the benefit of preferential treatment from the Officials, it was just the Pats* that were the beneficiaries last night. I don't really buy the leagues safety concern excuse though, because to that end, allowing the Defense to play with one extra player could be a safety concern for the other team, so it goes back to my question as to whether that gives the official the right to alert the Defense prior to the snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 insults no. You took offense to i . I am merely telling you that your entire argument ismlogically flawed. Therefore illogical. Care to explain. I have used facts to back up every single one of my points. All others have said "If you don't see it, I don't know what to tell you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hightower got into that position to call a line shift. He wasn't "lined up" over the long snapper. As a matter of safety, the Umpire reminded him that he needed to move and he did just that right after making his call that led to the FG block. You are imagining an advantage where none exists on a routine reminder from an NFL official. We all hate the Patriots, but come on!! Regardless of his intent, if he was over center when the ball was snapped, he was in an illegal Defense formation which is a penalty. My argument is that the officials should not be permitted to alert a player to a pending penalty, regardless of the team. Their job is to call the penalties, not to "prevent" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Regardless of his intent, if he was over center when the ball was snapped, he was in an illegal Defense formation which is a penalty. My argument is that the officials should not be permitted to alert a player to a pending penalty, regardless of the team. Their job is to call the penalties, not to "prevent" them. Safety of the long snapper is a league point of emphasis and nothing unusual. It is indeed a mandate for league officials. Your not liking it is an entirely different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hmmmm.. Penalties this year. Offensive PI Pats - 4 Bills - 2 Defensive Holding Pats -9 Bills - 7 Defensive PI Pats - 3 Bills - 6 ..... I think what often times happen when you have situation of complete and utter domination (as is the case with Bills and Pats) is those who have fallen victim to such domination (ie the fans of dominated team in this case) often look for ways and means to explain, even rationalize, how such domination can occur. Often times illogical aspects and components are entered into as evidence when, in fact, they are not at all accurate or truly representative of reality. But, it makes those involved feel good that their is a reason, other than the obvious, that explains for such futility. This may be an example of such a situation. Fair enough. I agree that there are other teams that get the benefit of preferential treatment from the Officials, it was just the Pats* that were the beneficiaries last night. I don't really buy the leagues safety concern excuse though, because to that end, allowing the Defense to play with one extra player could be a safety concern for the other team, so it goes back to my question as to whether that gives the official the right to alert the Defense prior to the snap. How can you not agree that the rule isn't in place to help with the well-being of the LS? There is a requirement for a defender to not be situated any closer to 1 yard away from LS and not lined-up directly over top of him. It's a VERY explicit rule done, obviously, for a VERY specific reason ... to protect the LS. In the play last night, even though Hightower was line-up over the LS, the ref SHOULDN'T have re-directed Hightower for he was beyond the 1 yard limitation. In re-directing Hightower as he did, the ref might have caused a negative play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Care to explain. I have used facts to back up every single one of my points. All others have said "If you don't see it, I don't know what to tell you" Facts schmax. The NFL has no right to interject with what is happening on the field. That's what the argument is. They interjected and it potentially changed the outcome of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Regardless of his intent, if he was over center when the ball was snapped, he was in an illegal Defense formation which is a penalty. A defender can be lined-up over the LS. he just can'r do so any closer to 1 yard of the LS while doing so. In last night's games, Hightower was ~2 yards away from the LS when the ref intervened. So, Hightower's actions weren't even penalty worthy to begin with! Edited October 17, 2014 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 A defender can be lined-up over the LS. he just can'r do so any closer to 1 yard of the LS while doing so. In last night's games, Hightower was ~2 yards away from the LS when the ref intervened. So, Hightower's actions weren't even penalty worthy to begin with! So it's ok for them to interfere to stop a player from committing a penalty? That's like saying "The ref grabbed him and pulled him back before he went offsides so that's ok." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 How can you not agree that the rule isn't in place to help with the well-being of the LS? There is a requirement for a defender to not be situated any closer to 1 yard away from LS and not lined-up directly over top of him. It's a VERY explicit rule done, obviously, for a VERY specific reason ... to protect the LS. In the play last night, even though Hightower was line-up over the LS, the ref SHOULDN'T have re-directed Hightower for he was beyond the 1 yard limitation. In re-directing Hightower as he did, the ref might have caused a negative play. Sorry, I agree completely that the rule should be enforced for the protection of the LS, I meant I don't agree with the league allowing the officials to intervene with a defensive formation prior to the snap. They should wait until the ball is snapped and then blow the play dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judman Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If the position of the defender is indeed a penalty, let it happen, call it... and allow the other team the opportunity to accept or decline the penalty. If this is a "prior to the snap" penalty like 12 men in the huddle or a false start, the penalty should be automatic. I guess you could argue that the guy would have backed out of position before the snap. But if he is not supposed to be there in the first place, then it should be called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 So it's ok for them to interfere to stop a player from committing a penalty? That's like saying "The ref grabbed him and pulled him back before he went offsides so that's ok." As I said previously, I can't say either way if they should intervene in order to protect the health of a susceptible player. My point is much simpler .... the Hightower play last night wasn't a penalty in accordance with the rules for Hightower wasn't within the 1 yard LOS rule limitation when the ref re-directed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 A defender can be lined-up over the LS. he just can'r do so any closer to 1 yard of the LS while doing so. In last night's games, Hightower was ~2 yards away from the LS when the ref intervened. So, Hightower's actions weren't even penalty worthy to begin with! he was moving forward... it fuels conspiracy that there would have been a penalty. so, lets try to wrap this dead horse up like this: 1) he was moving forward and not yet causing a penalty 2) the ref intervened which they occasionally do in the games to stop the player from causing a penalty 3) the penalty still occurs in the game and players are not always stopped prior to the snap 4) mrags should stay 5) that the nfl is involved at all, in some situations, causes many arguments which fall back to #1 again. in conclusion if you are fine with the refs having influence in the game then you will not see a big deal in this. if you want purity of the game you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 So it's ok for them to interfere to stop a player from committing a penalty? That's like saying "The ref grabbed him and pulled him back before he went offsides so that's ok." They do this all of the time. It is no different from when a WR lines up a checks the LOS, The Ref is preventing an illegal action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Sorry, I agree completely that the rule should be enforced for the protection of the LS, I meant I don't agree with the league allowing the officials to intervene with a defensive formation prior to the snap. They should wait until the ball is snapped and then blow the play dead. I see that side of the point. Though, waiting until after the play, my have health consequences for the LS that the league is not willing to risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 A defender can be lined-up over the LS. he just can'r do so any closer to 1 yard of the LS while doing so. In last night's games, Hightower was ~2 yards away from the LS when the ref intervened. So, Hightower's actions weren't even penalty worthy to begin with! That's kind of my point. Whether this would have been a penalty or not ( it may have been if he kept moving up on the line) the official should not have intervened. They are there to call penalties, not prevent them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 They do this all of the time. It is no different from when a WR lines up a checks the LOS, The Ref is preventing an illegal action. I have NEVER seen a ref proactively alert at WR that he is off sides or in an illegal formation, and if I did, that would piss me off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I have NEVER seen a ref proactively alert at WR that he is off sides or in an illegal formation, and if I did, that would piss me off too. That's because they don't do that. And certainly not on the last play of a 2 point game where that play will either result in a win or a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 That's kind of my point. Whether this would have been a penalty or not ( it may have been if he kept moving up on the line) the official should not have intervened. They are there to call penalties, not prevent them. They are also there to ensure the safety of the players out on the field. Sometimes that means having to get involved in a pre-emptive fashion. I accept that as does, apparently, the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 @DeanBlandino Player safety rule and Umpire will remind players to stay off the center before snap. Will discuss on NFLAM this morning. Blandino: Ref tapping Hightower to avoid penalty 'not unusual' why is this a player safety issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 why is this a player safety issue? Because the NFL protects long snappers from getting blasted while in a completely vulnerable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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