Hackett not properly using Spiller & Jackson

[CountDorkula]

That answer is obvious, it's a lot of loud mouth blow hard know nothings that think they know everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Watch who attacks me and you will have your answer.

 

So it is just a conicidence that EJ, Woods, Williams, CJ, FJ, The O-line have taken a step back this year and Sammy Watkins is not getting the ball nearly enough? That is all on the players?

[NoSaint]

 

 

And I say it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Those who want to point to CJ's above average 2012 season miss the much larger point. To achieve those above average numbers, he was used as a counter measure while the rest of the offense was a set up. This is the "space" that everyone is clamoring for. It was produced by using everything else as a decoy. It worked brilliantly...resulting in above average production from Spiller.

 

So let's go over how Hackett should "use" Spiller. He should set up an entire offense that's sole purpose is to setup using Spiller...on a limited basis...so he can put up above average numbers. Is that what posters want?

 

Do people really think that makes sense?

 

thats not what most people are arguing at all.... were saying that you create packages that work to your players strengths. our best blockers are on the perimeter and spiller has shown to be a better perimeter back. why would we not make that a more base package for him?

[The Big Cat]

im saying it will help create creases and less blocking failures potentially.

 

he did well when we spread the offense to create those creases in the past.

 

So...again...in order to get Spiller to successfully run up the !@#$ing middle of the field, we need to install a sub-offense to spread the defense out.

 

And what do we expect the ends to be? 1800 yds from scrimmage? 12 TD's? At the expense of?

 

thats not what most people are arguing at all.... were saying that you create packages that work to your players strengths. our best blockers are on the perimeter and spiller has shown to be a better perimeter back. why would we not make that a more base package for him?

 

Well, for four and a half years we've been watching what defenses do when we have to run sub-packages that establish Spiller as a one-dimensional threat.

 

Have we not?

[xsoldier54]

I really think Hackett is trying to force a square peg into a round hole with Spiller and hes not budging. You either need to drill a square hole or find a new peg, preferably a round one but either way something needs to change. Hackett, keeps running him up the middle (which Spiller is bad at) and Spiller tries to bounce outside (which he is bad at but thinks hes good at) and we end up with negative yards. Both Spiller and Hackett are inept in my opinion. I have come to terms with the fact that Spillers ceiling is Darren Sproles, which admittedly is a high ceiling if he is utilized properly but he is not a reliable every down back. He needs schemes and he will be a good total yardage from scrimmage guy but not a great running back.

 

I really think we should get Spiller out wide more but Hacketss refuses to. The first play from yesterday (maybe it wasnt the first play) was a fake sweep to Watkins and CJ broke it for a good chuck, WHY DONT WE DO STUFF LIKE THAT MORE OFTEN????? **

 

**OK I just rewatched it and it was on our second possession but still CJ got 5 yards which is a descent chunk compared to what he usually gets, and he lowered his shoulder at a guy which he never does. If he happened to beat that guy somehow then there was tons of space which could happen if it was tried again. Needless to say it was a good play and stuff like that should be tried more often

I agree completely. You can't keep running Spiller between the tackles. It is not what he does and the results have proven this out. I think they need to dust off the older counter tre that Thurman used to run to perfection. When I can sit at home and predict the play based on the formation, you know defenses aren't having any trouble knowing what we are going to run.

[The Big Cat]

So it is just a conicidence that EJ, Woods, Williams, CJ, FJ, The O-line have taken a step back this year and Sammy Watkins is not getting the ball nearly enough? That is all on the players?

 

What are you suggesting changed from years one to two for EJ and Woods? Where's the evidence that Woods' production has decreased, particularly now that EJ isn't the QB? Have you ever heard of the sophomore slump?

 

What evidence is there that Fred is having a down year? Which Williams' performances from the last 14 months are you comparing his production in 2014?

 

Are we conveniently forgetting that Sammy Watkins spent--at least--the first two weeks playing through a rib injury?

 

I agree completely. You can't keep running Spiller between the tackles. It is not what he does and the results have proven this out. I think they need to dust off the older counter tre that Thurman used to run to perfection. When I can sit at home and predict the play based on the formation, you know defenses aren't having any trouble knowing what we are going to run.

 

And again, it's Hackett's fault that CJ can't distinguish a crease from the guard's backside? It's Hackett's fault he runs directly INTO his blockers? It's Hackett's fault when FJ and BD routinely pick up 3-5 yards on the exact same play calls while Spiller ranges from -5 to 2?

[Wayne Cubed]

So it is just a conicidence that EJ, Woods, Williams, CJ, FJ, The O-line have taken a step back this year and Sammy Watkins is not getting the ball nearly enough? That is all on the players?

• Right, the O-line has 2 rookies on it, do you really think it was going to get better? It will get better in the long run, but putting 2 rookies in there isn't going to just magically make it better.
  
• Woods is now getting more looks with Orton under center. He has as many yards with Orton in 2 games as he did with EJ in 4.
  
• EJ, regressed no doubt. But I think that's on him.
  
• FJ is on pace for 1200+ yards from scrimmage. He had around 1100 last year.
  

Not everyone has taken steps back. And it more than arguable that EJ lead to some of those players taking steps back

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[xsoldier54]

So it is just a conicidence that EJ, Woods, Williams, CJ, FJ, The O-line have taken a step back this year and Sammy Watkins is not getting the ball nearly enough? That is all on the players?

I have been very slow to criticize Hacket's play calling, but the past two weeks have made me re-think it. He definitely is way too conservative and is not using Spiller correctly. They need more plays for Watkins as well. In addition, having your QB throw 35-40 passes a game is a recipe for disaster, need to get back to the run game, just be more creative about it.

[bobobonators]

 

 

No offense to you, because you didn't write the piece, but this 'bloggers' solution is to run sweeps? Ok, and that'll work for a total of 2 weeks tops and then defenses will figure out thats all their doing with Spiller. So then what? Spiller has to be able to run inside to establish the outside runs. Keep defenses honest. In fact, I'd argue that defense know Spiller can't run inside and therefore hope that he kicks it out, which doesn't and hasn't worked.

 

I just don't buy that Spiller can't be an at least somewhat effective inside runner when guys like McCoy and Charles.

 

The solution (IMO) isn't to run sweeps all the time much the same way we shouldn't be running it between the guards all the time. It's not just CJ either, the running game as a whole is struggling a bit due to the O-line play. We haven't been able to consistently run the ball in an effective manner as in years past. My point is, however, that we simply DON'T run sweeps at all. I've watched every single snap this season so far and I'll be damned if I recall a sweep play in 6 games. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

So we run very few (if any) sweeps. Very few draw plays. Very few screens. CJ is not targeted in the passing game (which should be a strength - you don't think he can block? Put him in motion and line him up at WR then. But wait, we rarely put players in motion either.) We run very few misdirection plays.

 

These are all things that just come to my head and don't require an offensive guru to realize. I wondered whether the offense was bland b/c EJ was young, but with Orton in there through 2 games, the plays are still just as bland. This offense lacks creativity. It lacks complexity. It makes it easy on defenses.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2014 by bobobonators

[The Big Cat]

The solution (IMO) isn't to run sweeps all the time much the same way we shouldn't be running it between the guards all the time. It's not just CJ either, the running game as a whole is struggling a bit due to the O-line play. We haven't been able to consistently run the ball in an effective manner as in years past. My point is, however, that we simply DON'T run sweeps at all. I've watched every single snap this season so far and I'll be damned if I recall a sweep play in 6 games. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

 

So we run very few (if any) sweeps. Very few draw plays. Very few screens. CJ is not targeted in the passing game (which should be a strength - you don't think he can block? Put him in motion and line him up at WR then. But wait, we rarely put players in motion either.) We run very few misdirection plays.

 

These are all things that just come to my head and don't require an offensive guru to realize. I wondered whether the offense was bland b/c EJ was young, but with Orton in there through 2 games, the plays are still just as bland. This offense lacks creativity. It lacks complexity. It makes it easy on defenses.

 

The offense is just very bland with no frills and very little creativity.

 

So, in other words make space for CJ...just not between the guards. That's bad space.

[Centerline]

I believe it's a combination of Marrone and Hackett. In the previous coaching staff they had a pulling guard who helped open up holes for the running game with WRs blocking downfield. Marrone has an Offensive line IQ where the Buff Offense lines up and depends on a 1-on1 matchup to create holes. They both suck.

[bobobonators]

 

 

So, in other words make space for CJ...just not between the guards. That's bad space.

 

Big Cat, this isn't just about CJ. It's about the entire offense. CJ is just a symptom of the main problem.

[NoSaint]

 

 

So...again...in order to get Spiller to successfully run up the !@#$ing middle of the field, we need to install a sub-offense to spread the defense out.

 

And what do we expect the ends to be? 1800 yds from scrimmage? 12 TD's? At the expense of?

 

 

 

Well, for four and a half years we've been watching what defenses do when we have to run sub-packages that establish Spiller as a one-dimensional threat.

 

Have we not?

 

for 1.5 years weve been watching him run up the middle, for 1 year he was a rookie, and for the other years he wasnt too shabby.

 

if i hand you darren sproles and mike tolbert are you running the same set of plays for each? or do you find player groupings and plays that maximize the talent you have?

 

my point earlier is we stick to the plan instead of our skills - we saw it with a 3rd TE over our 3rd WR, we saw it with mario/hughes on the bench for normal rotations late in the 4th, we see it with spiller getting 50% of his carries between the guards.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint

[Wayne Cubed]

Big Cat, this isn't just about CJ. It's about the entire offense. CJ is just a symptom of the main problem.

• FJ is doing just fine. He's on pace for 1200+ yards from scrimmage. He had around 1100 last year.
  
• Woods is starting to get the ball more and has as many yards in 2 games with Orton as he did with EJ in 4.
  
• I'll agree not going to Watkins in the NE* was a bit frustrating. But he looked good in the Detroit game.
  
• Chandler is now ooking like he did under Chan. He had a monster game.
  

 

This thread is about Spiller and I guess it's somewhat about Hackett. The offense, in a lot of aspects, was not the problem on Sunday. Yea, Spiller was useless, but if the defense does a better job in the 2nd half, the offense more than did enough to win.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[The Big Cat]

for 1.5 years weve been watching him run up the middle, for 1 year he was a rookie, and for the other years he wasnt too shabby.

 

if i hand you darren sproles and mike tolbert are you running the same set of plays for each? or do you find player groupings and plays that maximize the talent you have?

 

my point earlier is we stick to the plan instead of our skills - we saw it with a 3rd TE over our 3rd WR, we saw it with mario/hughes on the bench for normal rotations late in the 4th, we see it with spiller getting 50% of his carries between the guards.

 

Fine. But I stick to my original point: if a RB can't be relied on to run up the middle, then he's--at best--a gadget player. I wonder how Spiller's contract talks are going. I wonder where they'd be if we had been successful in trading up for Carlos Hyde.

[bobobonators]

• FJ is doing just fine. He's on pace for 1200+ yards from scrimmage. He had around 1100 last year.
  
• Woods is starting to get the ball more and has as many yards in 2 games with Orton as he did with EJ in 4.
  
• I'll agree not going to Watkins in the NE* was a bit frustrating. But he looked good in the Detroit game.
  
• Chandler is now ooking like he did under Chan. He had a monster game.
  

 

This thread is about Spiller and I guess it's somewhat about Hackett. The offense, in a lot of aspects, was not the problem on Sunday. Yea, Spiller was useless, but if the defense does a better job in the 2nd half, the offense more than did enough to win.

 

I can tell you that what Spiller has achieved in the NFL is a heck of a lot more than what NH has achieved. Why should anyone be giving NH the benefit of the doubt? Did he have a revolutionary offense at Syracuse like Kelly had? No. This guy brings nothing new to the table. So I'm not going to get all over Spiller the way I will over NH. That's my viewpoint. That's all.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Fine. But I stick to my original point: if a RB can't be relied on to run up the middle, then he's--at best--a gadget player. I wonder how Spiller's contract talks are going. I wonder where they'd be if we had been successful in trading up for Carlos Hyde.

 

i frankly dont care what position hes listed at - hes got talent, and we should maximize his effectiveness. so what if hes not a 20 carry between the tackles kind of back - who says he has to be? whats wrong with an explosive gadget player? you say it like its a big knock.

 

lets get him to 225 touches with 65 between the tackles, 100 on the perimeter, and 60 passes for instance.... if we are going to have a tendency with him, lets make it tend to be one of our strengths instead of a weakness.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NoSaint

[bobobonators]

• FJ is doing just fine. He's on pace for 1200+ yards from scrimmage. He had around 1100 last year.
  
• Woods is starting to get the ball more and has as many yards in 2 games with Orton as he did with EJ in 4.
  
• I'll agree not going to Watkins in the NE* was a bit frustrating. But he looked good in the Detroit game.
  
• Chandler is now ooking like he did under Chan. He had a monster game.
  

 

This thread is about Spiller and I guess it's somewhat about Hackett. The offense, in a lot of aspects, was not the problem on Sunday. Yea, Spiller was useless, but if the defense does a better job in the 2nd half, the offense more than did enough to win.

 

Hackett not utilizing Spiller/FJ like the thread states is about Hackett not knowing how to maximize the most out of what he's got at the NFL level:

 

We're 25th in yds/game

We're 26th in pts/game

We're 22nd in rushing yds/game

 

That's p*ss poor so far.

[Wayne Cubed]

Hackett not utilizing Spiller/FJ like the thread states is about Hackett not knowing how to maximize the most out of what he's got at the NFL level:

 

We're 25th in yds/game

We're 26th in pts/game

We're 22nd in rushing yds/game

 

That's p*ss poor so far.

 

Again, to the bold, thats in large part due to Spillers ineffectiveness. Like I said FJ is on pace to do MORE yards from scrimmage than last year. Spillers numbers are the ones that are down.

[CountDorkula]

Hackett not utilizing Spiller/FJ like the thread states is about Hackett not knowing how to maximize the most out of what he's got at the NFL level:

 

We're 25th in yds/game

We're 26th in pts/game

We're 22nd in rushing yds/game

 

That's p*ss poor so far.

 

I'm afraid it is going to get worse. Hackett has been figured out and cannot adjust, IMO.

[Wayne Cubed]

I can tell you that what Spiller has achieved in the NFL is a heck of a lot more than what NH has achieved. Why should anyone be giving NH the benefit of the doubt? Did he have a revolutionary offense at Syracuse like Kelly had? No. This guy brings nothing new to the table. So I'm not going to get all over Spiller the way I will over NH. That's my viewpoint. That's all.

 

Spiller had 1.5 good years, so did Josh Freeman. Hell, Chris Johnson used to be amazing. Whats your point in attacking Nate Hakett's resume?