Tampa Bob Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 There's a lot of times defense know where and when AP is going to run, and it's against a stacked box. No ones afraid of Minny's passing attack. True. They could definitely play better. Maybe it's because AP threatens to whip the defender's children if they tackle him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 So, do you think it's wise to use EJ as a pocket passer when what potentially sets him apart is his ability to run? Once again it's not what I'm saying, stay on topic. When your QB is having a hard time and your top two RBs have no 100 yard games, don't even average 90 yards between them, and have no rushing TDs between them 3 games into the year I dare say it has more to do with the oline. All the TDs scored through 3 games have come from EJ whether it be run or pass. MN was 5-10-1 last season. Don't cherry pick they were 10-6 the year before.What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Once again it's not what I'm saying, stay on topic. When your QB is having a hard time and your top two RBs have no 100 yard games, don't even average 90 yards between them, and have no rushing TDs between them 3 games into the year I dare say it has more to do with the oline. All the TDs scored through 3 games have come from EJ whether it be run or pass. I'm making the thread more interesting. We can discuss whether Manwel sucks, or we can steer this thread to a more interesting and less discussed issue of whether he should run more, which is within the theme of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 True. They could definitely play better. Maybe it's because AP threatens to whip the defender's children if they tackle him. You may be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Don't cherry pick they were 10-6 the year before.What's your point? That year teams feared the pass (had to account for is probably more accurate than feared) due in part to Harvin who was killing it that year. The point is that if teams don't respect the pass you're going to have a bad time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm making the thread more interesting. We can discuss whether Manwel sucks, or we can steer this thread to a more interesting and less discussed issue of whether he should run more, which is within the theme of this thread. Why didn't you say so? I'm very tired and a little slow tonight. My opinion is he suffered a few knee injuries last year but that doesn't mean it will happen again. Running in a straight line EJ looks good, but when he gets around a crowd or needs to finish a run he looks awkward. I don't blame the play in question on him It's been drilled into his head all off season. I believe the coaching staff would have been better off teaching him how to finish a run. How to deliver the hit, as a runner, rather than being hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Bob Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm making the thread more interesting. We can discuss whether Manwel sucks, or we can steer this thread to a more interesting and less discussed issue of whether he should run more, which is within the theme of this thread. I think ej needs to play more aggressively...whatever that means. He has to stop being scared of everything (injuries, mistakes, etc.). Scrambling would be nice to see from him. I could tell that game was over early in the first quarter. He seemed to have the jitters very early. If I can see it, the rest of the team definitely saw it too and I'm sure it sucked the life out of them which is probably why they were so flat all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 This topic is actually somewhat different from the others, but I wouldn't expect someone resorting to the ever pathetic "yer a racist" argument to have the cognitive ability to grasp the distinguishing aspects. Please- don't embaress yourself. "Cognitive ability"? If you aren't aware that there is a contingent of people who, more based on their own insecurities and shortcomings mind you than overt racism, have a problem with a paradigm shift occurring at the QB position, then you're either subconsciously blinded by the same problem or really proud of yourself for using a multi syllable word properly. Either way the collective bias against the kid is historically and statistically irrational. All the benchmarks say so. History says so. The coaches say so. He's either going to develop or he's not. ITS TO FREAKING EARLY TO TELL... There has been both good and bad, like just about every young QB to ever play in the nfl. Likewise it is rediculous how many different threads are spawned to make some sub set of this recurring argument... That ej is a lousey QB. It's a perpetual daily contest to see which new thread title can marginally divert the same discusion . 78 thread for each QBs they should get from a dumpster or fire sale to start over ej Orton should play He can't avoid injury He doesn't fight for yards He can't read d He reads too much and too slow He's too conservative He's not accurate I mean do we really feel a thread is warranted for every stupid specific material shortcoming a bunch of no nothing armchair QBs with TiVo think they know? /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 That year teams feared the pass (had to account for is probably more accurate than feared) due in part to Harvin who was killing it that year. The point is that if teams don't respect the pass you're going to have a bad time. They averaged 172 yds a game 19 yards a game less than Buffalo this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Bob Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 Please- don't embaress yourself. "Cognitive ability"? If you aren't aware that there is a contingent of people who, more based on their own insecurities and shortcomings mind you than overt racism, have a problem with a paradigm shift occurring at the QB position, then you're either subconsciously blinded by the same problem or really proud of yourself for using a multi syllable word properly. Either way the collective bias against the kid is historically and statistically irrational. All the benchmarks say so. History says so. The coaches say so. He's either going to develop or he's not. ITS TO FREAKING EARLY TO TELL... There has been both good and bad, like just about every young QB to ever play in the nfl. Likewise it is rediculous how many different threads are spawned to make some sub set of this recurring argument... That ej is a lousey QB. It's a perpetual daily contest to see which new thread title can marginally divert the same discusion . 78 thread for each QBs they should get from a dumpster or fire sale to start over ej Orton should play He can't avoid injury He doesn't fight for yards He can't read d He reads too much and too slow He's too conservative He's not accurate I mean do we really feel a thread is warranted for every stupid specific material shortcoming a bunch of no nothing armchair QBs with TiVo think they know? /rant You are clearly smarter than the rest of us so please help me understand. Are you saying that I started a thread about an unbelievably soft play by our big, strong qb because I am insecure about something which subconsciously makes me a racist? Please help me identify these insecurities. Is it that I am insecure about my whiteness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) Please- don't embaress yourself. "Cognitive ability"? If you aren't aware that there is a contingent of people who, more based on their own insecurities and shortcomings mind you than overt racism, have a problem with a paradigm shift occurring at the QB position, then you're either subconsciously blinded by the same problem or really proud of yourself for using a multi syllable word properly. Either way the collective bias against the kid is historically and statistically irrational. All the benchmarks say so. History says so. The coaches say so. He's either going to develop or he's not. ITS TO FREAKING EARLY TO TELL... There has been both good and bad, like just about every young QB to ever play in the nfl. Likewise it is rediculous how many different threads are spawned to make some sub set of this recurring argument... That ej is a lousey QB. It's a perpetual daily contest to see which new thread title can marginally divert the same discusion . 78 thread for each QBs they should get from a dumpster or fire sale to start over ej Orton should play He can't avoid injury He doesn't fight for yards He can't read d He reads too much and too slow He's too conservative He's not accurate I mean do we really feel a thread is warranted for every stupid specific material shortcoming a bunch of no nothing armchair QBs with TiVo think they know? /rant 1. Referring to one's cognitive ability is a way to take a shot at his intelligence without running afoul of TOS. No offense, but I'm always going to take a shot at race baiters. 2. It's not unusual to find excessive QB discussions on a message board dedicated to an NFL team with a young QB who has yet to establish himself. 3. There are always going to be people who feel all kinds of ways. That doesn't make it the overriding sentiment. Whether it was your intent, your post implied that the primary reason for the questioning and criticism of Manwel is racism. That's idiotic. You deserve to be called out for it. It's baseless, cowardly, and irresponsible. Worst of all, you didn't even support your position. You just threw it out there to preempt any counterargument. Edited September 24, 2014 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) There's a lot of times defense know where and when AP is going to run, and it's against a stacked box. No ones afraid of Minny's passing attack. Fred isn't AP? Stop the presses! Seriously though, it's chicken and egg. Are our RB's playing poorly because of EJ or is EJ playing bad because of our RB? Seeing as Fred and even CJ have been historically way more productive for their positions whereas EJ has not, I think it's an easy answer. Also, Fred lead the team in receptions, receiving yards and rushing yards last game. He also had less attempts than CJ, 6 to 10. That speaks volumes. Please- don't embaress yourself. "Cognitive ability"? If you aren't aware that there is a contingent of people who, more based on their own insecurities and shortcomings mind you than overt racism, have a problem with a paradigm shift occurring at the QB position, then you're either subconsciously blinded by the same problem or really proud of yourself for using a multi syllable word properly. Either way the collective bias against the kid is historically and statistically irrational. All the benchmarks say so. History says so. The coaches say so. He's either going to develop or he's not. ITS TO FREAKING EARLY TO TELL... There has been both good and bad, like just about every young QB to ever play in the nfl. Likewise it is rediculous how many different threads are spawned to make some sub set of this recurring argument... That ej is a lousey QB. It's a perpetual daily contest to see which new thread title can marginally divert the same discusion . 78 thread for each QBs they should get from a dumpster or fire sale to start over ej Orton should play He can't avoid injury He doesn't fight for yards He can't read d He reads too much and too slow He's too conservative He's not accurate I mean do we really feel a thread is warranted for every stupid specific material shortcoming a bunch of no nothing armchair QBs with TiVo think they know? /rant Is someone working out on the bike? I hear a lot of back pedaling. Edited September 24, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 They averaged 172 yds a game 19 yards a game less than Buffalo this year. I'm not impressed by stats. Besides, what's your theory, exactly? That our RBs suddenly suck and they're holding back Manwel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Screw EJ, SG And the defense that had its first stop in the 4rth quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Fred isn't AP? Stop the presses! Seriously though, it's chicken and egg. Are our RB's playing poorly because of EJ or is EJ playing bad because of our RB? Seeing as Fred and even CJ have been historically way more productive for their positions whereas EJ has not, I think it's an easy answer. Also, Fred lead the team in receptions, receiving yards and rushing yards last game. He also had less attempts than CJ, 6 to 10. That speaks volumes. I don't think either. I 100% understand, and in no way was implying, Fred or CJ were AP. It's the line which is the weakest link on the offense. The line is straight up horrible. Little pass protection and just no holes. Heck with holes, the interior line ends up in the backfield more often then not. I'm not impressed by stats. Besides, what's your theory, exactly? That our RBs suddenly suck and they're holding back Manwel? I don't care if you are impressed by stats. My "theory" is if our oline didn't suck our QB and RBs would fare much better. No? Let me ask you a question. If the Bills are faced with 3rd and 2 and had to run to get it how many times out of ten do they get it? I say 3 maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 We drafted EJ because the fans demanded a QB and Buddy said he wasn't leaving until he got one - so even though it was a miserable year to draft a QB we were bound and determined to get one and there were only two semi-good choices, Geno Smith who was most NFL ready and EJ who had the most long term upside- EJ was a guy I liked as a developmental player a 3rd round type who would sit a couple of years but that's the poison we picked, I would have waited to this year to grab a QB but truth be told this year wasn't very stellar for QBs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I don't care if you are impressed by stats. My "theory" is if our oline didn't suck our QB and RBs would fare much better. No? Let me ask you a question. If the Bills are faced with 3rd and 2 and had to run to get it how many times out of ten do they get it? I say 3 maybe. I don't completely disagree, I just think it's overstated. I've been wishing for a big, physically imposing OG and a big bodied power back for years. But this is primarily the same crew that opened holes and set up screens pretty well for Gailey. Some of it may well be coaching, but a lot of it is due to the QB. Not to say he sucks or can't improve, but he has deficiencies in his game at the moment that create a lot of these problems. It just seems unfair for us to lay all the blame on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 1. Referring to one's cognitive ability is a way to take a shot at his intelligence without running afoul of TOS. No offense, but I'm always going to take a shot at race baiters. 2. It's not unusual to find excessive QB discussions on a message board dedicated to an NFL team with a young QB who has yet to establish himself. 3. There are always going to be people who feel all kinds of ways. That doesn't make it the overriding sentiment. Whether it was your intent, your post implied that the primary reason for the questioning and criticism of Manwel is racism. That's idiotic. You deserve to be called out for it. It's baseless, cowardly, and irresponsible. Worst of all, you didn't even support your position. You just threw it out there to preempt any counterargument. It's not baseless, cowardly or irresponsible. The fear of the discussion sure is though and the emotional need to continue assailing others intelligence further validates my initial post. One more time.... There is an irrational dislike for the kid that's not supported by data, facts or historical precedence. Since I don't think ej has personally kicked any of your dogs I've love to understand what other deep seated fixation drives a few on this board to accuse the dude of "playing weak", having slow eyes, being incapable of reading defenses, etc. sucking eternally.... What is it? I'm open.... Do you dislike Seminoles? Problem with Virginians? Plays weak? Because he's not throwing his knees at the safety's helmet like he was chastised for doing last year? How foolish is this spiral going to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 It's not baseless, cowardly or irresponsible. The fear of the discussion sure is though and the emotional need to continue assailing others intelligence further validates my initial post. One more time.... There is an irrational dislike for the kid that's not supported by data, facts or historical precedence. Since I don't think ej has personally kicked any of your dogs I've love to understand what other deep seated fixation drives a few on this board to accuse the dude of "playing weak", having slow eyes, being incapable of reading defenses, etc. sucking eternally.... What is it? I'm open.... Do you dislike Seminoles? Problem with Virginians? Plays weak? Because he's not throwing his knees at the safety's helmet like he was chastised for doing last year? How foolish is this spiral going to get? So because you disagree with the assessment others have made of his playing ability you default to racism as the go to explanation? Sounds like you see racism everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) You are clearly smarter than the rest of us so please help me understand. Are you saying that I started a thread about an unbelievably soft play by our big, strong qb because I am insecure about something which subconsciously makes me a racist? Please help me identify these insecurities. Is it that I am insecure about my whiteness? Juding by your op it's probably your weakness not you whiteness..... Sorry man it's ok. Use a bold font. Looks big an strong in cyberspace! So because you disagree with the assessment others have made of his playing ability you default to racism as the go to explanation? Sounds like you see racism everywhere. This is an exceptional example of what exceeding cognitive abilities looks like. Well done! Edited September 24, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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