Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Since there were so many interesting and informed responses the last time someone posted a dog question, I thought I'd take a stab at my question here - perhaps someone can help me, we're nearly at the end of our (leash). My girlfriend and I have an 18 month-old lab mix, we rescued her from a kill shelter a year ago. All in all, she's the best dog I've ever had - fun, affectionate, intelligent, loyal, etc. Her one big flaw, which has been getting worse and worse since she was nearly mauled to death by a pit bull awhile back, is that she's increasingly aggressive at the dog park towards other dogs. She doesn't start fights, but if another dog starts with her she goes apeshit. She has a terrible temper and will keep fighting that dog until she's physically restrained (even chasing it down and attacking it again). She has a soft labrador mouth, so she can't do much damage, but it's still very scary and troubling. Every time she does it, we immediately pull her away, sternly tell her "No, Bad," etc. (which she comprehends), and put her on the leash. We then give her a "time out", making her sit with us while on the leash for at least 5-10 minutes, then walk her around the dog park on the leash, making her heel, etc., until she behaves well enough to let her off again. If she fights again, we take her out of the park. We're not sure what else to do - but the problem keeps recurring. She's fully socialized - she usually plays well with other dogs, goes to doggy day-care during the week (and has lots of dog "buddies" there), and overall has a gentle temperment - but every other time we're at the dog park, this happens... Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Every time she does it, we immediately pull her away, sternly tell her "No, Bad," etc. (which she comprehends), and put her on the leash. We then give her a "time out", making her sit with us while on the leash for at least 5-10 minutes, then walk her around the dog park on the leash, making her heel, etc., until she behaves well enough to let her off again. Ok, I don't mean to make light of your situation...but.... YOU PUT YOUR DOG IN TIMEOUT??!!! have you tried the shoe to the head method yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Ok, I don't mean to make light of your situation...but.... YOU PUT YOUR DOG IN TIMEOUT??!!! have you tried the shoe to the head method yet? 215384[/snapback] I'm surprised the "doggy day-care" line wasn't the one that got you stirred up... BTW, dogs are like kids in the sense that beating them only fosters more anger and aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashfruit Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 obviously the dog feels uncomfortable at the dog park, so maybe dont bring it there anymore, its stressin it out. is the dog spade? if not i suggest gettin that done its a sure fire way to melow it out. and what the hell is a dog "timeout"? do you think it knows why its on timeout or what a timeout is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 i think it's irresponsible of you to let your dog off the leash if you know she has this propensity. it's not her fault. either keep her on the leash or get some professional help with obedience training. and i agree with the other poster -- why take her somewhere that obviously stresses her out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 obviously the dog feels uncomfortable at the dog park, so maybe dont bring it there anymore, its stressin it out. is the dog spade? if not i suggest gettin that done its a sure fire way to melow it out. and what the hell is a dog "timeout"? do you think it knows why its on timeout or what a timeout is? 215408[/snapback] 1) the dog LOVES the dog park - sits and cries all day until I take her 2) the dog is spade 3) a "timeout" is making her sit next to me until she calms down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 BTW, dogs are like kids in the sense that beating them only fosters more anger and aggression. some would argue that timeout just fosters children (and dogs evidently) that don't respect authority or follow rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 the word is 'spayed' -- geesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashfruit Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 3) a "timeout" is making her sit next to me until she calms down ok, we know (as humans) what a timeout is. the dog doesnt. thats in the category of walkin into a room that your dog chewed up 2 hours ago (you just noticed it) and tryin to punish it for bein a bad. but the dog doesnt know why its bein punished because it doesnt realize your mad at him for chewin up the room, it associates gettin yelled at with you comin into the room. so make a habit of it and whenever you walk into the room its gonna get scared. heres my question though, when shes on timeout do you make her face the corner? the word is 'spayed' -- geesh. geesh? get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 Ok thanks - does anyone have anything to offer other than, "You're an !@#$" "Shoot the dog" "Timeout is a stupid word" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2005 Author Share Posted January 23, 2005 ok, we know (as humans) what a timeout is. the dog doesnt. thats in the category of walkin into a room that your dog chewed up 2 hours ago (you just noticed it) and tryin to punish it for bein a bad. but the dog doesnt know why its bein punished because it doesnt realize your mad at him for chewin up the room, it associates gettin yelled at with you comin into the room. so make a habit of it and whenever you walk into the room its gonna get scared. heres my question though, when shes on timeout do you make her face the corner?geesh? get a grip. 215426[/snapback] Dude, do you have ANYTHING to offer here? The dog knows she's being forced to calm down, and she usually behaves better after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Ok thanks - does anyone have anything to offer other than, "You're an !@#$" "Shoot the dog" "Timeout is a stupid word" ? 215428[/snapback] sorry you didn't appreciate the advice, but it IS irresponsible to let your dog off the leash if you know she might act that way. it's your fault, not hers, if something really bad happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 heres my question though, when shes on timeout do you make her face the corner? LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashfruit Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 yeah, you just read it. you ask me what i have to offer but you put your dog on a timeout. you gotta be the only person who thinks a dog knows what a timeout is. im done, good luck. hopefully your dog wont encounter another pitbull, but if it does remember its your fault because you insist she loves the dog park when its obvious shes stressed out there, why the dogpark? walk her around the block or somethin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Ok thanks - does anyone have anything to offer other than, "You're an !@#$" "Shoot the dog" "Timeout is a stupid word" ? 215428[/snapback] Well, I do agree with those that say perhaps taking her there is not a good idea... your dog likes the dog park (of course she does), as does mine. However, if you can't/won't get some sort of professional training, you may want to stop going. I mean, my dog enjoys the dog park because she likes to run. but she also loves to run in the back yard. Timout is not stupid, but like others mentioned, she probably sees it as punishment, and can't figure out what she is being punished for... I mean, it's a behavior, not one action... ya know? If that's the only time that she acts out, it seems like the simple answer is don't take her there. But, if you really want to, i think a professional dog trainer might be the only hope. . . I'm assuming she had some bad experience back in her 'puppy-hood"... oh and gmac17, your suggestion of a boot to the head? .... and people wonder why some dogs get violent... jesus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Since there were so many interesting and informed responses the last time someone posted a dog question, I thought I'd take a stab at my question here - perhaps someone can help me, we're nearly at the end of our (leash). My girlfriend and I have an 18 month-old lab mix, we rescued her from a kill shelter a year ago. All in all, she's the best dog I've ever had - fun, affectionate, intelligent, loyal, etc. Her one big flaw, which has been getting worse and worse since she was nearly mauled to death by a pit bull awhile back, is that she's increasingly aggressive at the dog park towards other dogs. She doesn't start fights, but if another dog starts with her she goes apeshit. She has a terrible temper and will keep fighting that dog until she's physically restrained (even chasing it down and attacking it again). She has a soft labrador mouth, so she can't do much damage, but it's still very scary and troubling. Every time she does it, we immediately pull her away, sternly tell her "No, Bad," etc. (which she comprehends), and put her on the leash. We then give her a "time out", making her sit with us while on the leash for at least 5-10 minutes, then walk her around the dog park on the leash, making her heel, etc., until she behaves well enough to let her off again. If she fights again, we take her out of the park. We're not sure what else to do - but the problem keeps recurring. She's fully socialized - she usually plays well with other dogs, goes to doggy day-care during the week (and has lots of dog "buddies" there), and overall has a gentle temperment - but every other time we're at the dog park, this happens... Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. CT. 215381[/snapback] I had very similar problems with my German Shepard and my girlfriend and I were able to make huge strides with his development. So while this maybe a long winded reply it is essential to being able to correct his problem behavior. Dogs are pack animals and you and your girlfriend are part of his pack. In the wild each pack has the alpha, or dominant member, and each other member is then ranked accordingly within the pack based on dominance. In reality your the alpha male of your pack, the question is does your dog realize that or not? In order to find out you simply need to watch the dogs behavior. Does he walk threw doors first? Does he walk a few feet in front of you on the leash?Does he run up the stairs first or does he let you go and follow behind? If he is doing any of this leading type behavior then your dog views himself as the alpha male, and when that is the case you will encounter the types of problems that your experiencing. The reason for this is its the alphas job to protect his pack, so if your dog views himself as the alpha he feels its his job to protect you and your girlfriend. When you walk into the park what is going on in your mind? I ask this because dogs have a uncanny ability to sense their owners emotions even if they are not visibly showing them. Subconsciously your probably nervous at the park, nervous that he might have the outburst he keeps having, or nervous that your dog might put himself in danger by barking up the wrong tree. Well if thats the case your dog senses that nervousness. The problem is he relates that to you being afraid. As the alpha its his job to protect so he naturally becomes very aggressive toward other dogs or people. So how do you go about correcting this behavior? First you need to establish yourself as the alpha in his mind, and in order to do that you need to completely change the way you act around your dog. First of all your dog needs to understand that you are alway in control of him, and that he is not allowed to behave how he wants anymore. Don't let him sniff or interact with people or dogs unless you want him to. Don't let him go to the bathroom, or sniff the ground, or do anything unless that is precisely what you want. Constantly enforce good behavior with positive reinforcement, but more importantly ALWAYS punish him if he does something that you don't want him to do. NEVER let your dog lead, not threw doors, stairs, or on the leash. You need to establish yourself as the dominant one and thats a difficult proposition when your dog already believes himself to be just that. Here is a couple quick fixes that should help to mask the problem as you establish dominance. Relax as much as you possibly can at the park, remember if the dog senses any nervousness he will go into protective mode. Another thing you can do is incorporate another dog into your walks at the park. If you know of any other dogs bring them over before you leave to the park. Socialize your dog and the other dog and then take them both to the park. This will help to calm his nerves, distract him, and also show him that other dogs at the park are not a threat to his pack. Bottom line though is you need to establish dominance with him....Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 here is a good article and two links with excellent information, this person had similar problem: The last 4 times I took her to the park she attacked another dog for no reason. Are you saying that Cheeba has now attacked a dog on 4 separate occasions at the park? Did these incidents involve 4 different dogs? Had these dogs been at the park previous to these incidents? Also, how long were Cheeba and Niko at the park before Cheeba went into attack mode? Have you taken Cheeba back to the park without Niko? Okay, one thing you must realize is that Cheeba CANNOT continue this behavior of attacking dogs ever again. Each time she learns that attacking another dog accomplishes something for her, it is just as if you were giving her a side of beef as a reward for doing that. The most important fact that we all should never forget is DOGS ONLY DO BEHAVIORS THAT WORK FOR THEM! It's going to be your job now to teach Cheeba that aggressing other dogs means she will get taken out of the dog park immediately! You don't indicate how bad the attacks were. Did Cheeba injure any of the dogs she attacked? Were there wounds, bleeding, nicks to ears, legs or skin of the other dog? Did she grab hold of the other dog and pin it to the ground? Or... was her behavior a lot of noise without actual bites? Once a neighbor's dog attacked my dog while we were on a walk. I swore my dog had been injured but when I got him home and examined him thoroughly, there was not a mark on him! If Cheeba actually injured another dog, regardless of whether Niko was there or not, I would recommend that you NOT take her back to the dog park without having a professional behaviorist or trainer go there with you to observe her behavior. It would not be responsible to bring an aggressive dog back to a park where other dogs go to play. You would be putting those dogs in harm's way and I'm sure the humans in the park would not appreciate that. Also, you could be sued if Cheeba did injure another dog. My concern is that each time she attacks, her attacks will get worse and she will eventually do damage. On the other hand, if you can honestly say that her "attacks" were all displays and she didn't injure any other dog, I would suggest you give her timeouts for inappropriate behavior. You should recognize her body language by now that she's going to go into attack mode. The very instant she gets into that stance or behavior, snap her leash on, tell her "too bad," and remove her from the enclosure. Take her away from the dogs, step on her leash while you still have hold of the loop of it, and IGNORE HER for about 1 minute. Say nothing to her, use no emotions at all. As long as she remains calm and quiet, you can then bring her back to the dog park, take hold of her collar and tell her sit BEFORE ALLOWING HER TO PLAY AGAIN. When she sits, tell her, "GO PLAY." Put everything under YOUR control and don't let your dog(s) barge into the park like it's some kind of free for all. If she AGAIN starts to show an aggressive stance, snap her leash on, tell her "too bad," and TAKE HER HOME! You also need to teach her to come when called. This training should begin at home in the house. When she's coming to you everytime you call her inside, teach her to come to you outside with the distractions of outside sounds and sights. Once she comes to you outside all the time, begin training her to come when called at the dog park, but when no dogs are there. Once she's got a reliable recall at the dog park, start practicing coming when called when there's just a few dogs milling around. Get her to know that coming to you will always be a wonderful experience. While you should never bring food with you to a dog park, you should figure out what other reinforcer you can use while at the park that would motivate her to come back to you anytime you called her. It could be a ball, it could be praise and lots of happy petting, it could be anything that SHE would see as a good thing. You could toss a Frisbee for her to play with as a reward too. Doing a recall is also an effective way to refocus her attention back on you when she's about to get into trouble. You should implement a strict Nothing in Life is Free program ASAP with both of your dogs. Here is the link to read about this program: This is a foundation program that all dogs should live with for life. Dogs learn that their humans are truly in charge of everything that's important. When they know this is the case, they settle down and become more relaxed and less nervous, anxious, frustrated, and angry. Please go to the articles page under this forum and begin training all of the recommended commands that are listed. Most of these commands are taught by playing games and making it a lot of fun. Use reward-based training only. The use of choke chain, prong collar and shock collars are not recommended here for any reason. I certainly hope you'll continue to come back with any questions or problems that may arise. I hope that you will contact a professional to help you get through this with Cheeba as long as you want her to get along with other dogs. Keep in touch! __________________ Nothing in life is free dog training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 oh and gmac17, your suggestion of a boot to the head? .... and people wonder why some dogs get violent... jesus... I was being sarcastic as I couldn't believe that someone puts their dog in timeout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Did the mauling by the pit bull happen before you got her? How old was she at the time? At any rate, it was undoubtedly a very traumatic experience and your dog seems to feel extremely threatened in certain types of encounters with other dogs. My best advice is to consult a knowledgeable dog trainer who specializes in dog aggression. Your dog needs to be slowly and patiently desensitized to other dogs' perceived aggression toward her. Keep in mind that it may well be a long process. There is a couple down the street from us who adopted a rescue dog that had been mistreated by people (men, mostly) and it had a real aggression problem with men it encountered during leashed walks. They worked with a dog trainer and, over about a year's time, the problem was pretty much resolved. Every dog and situation will vary, though. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBillsBacker Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 Guess i'm not the only Dog Dad here. Ironically, I mastered the timeout method with my dog. When my lab does something wrong, I tell her "corner" and she goes lie in the corner and looks sad. It took me a long time to teach her this, but it's funny as hell. Coach Tuesday, try this link below. There are some very knowledgable people there. I've learned alot about dogs, especially labs from this particular message board. http://www.lab-retriever.net/board/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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