Will We Become The Lions ?

[thewildrabbit]

I doubt the Bills will look anything like the Lions D, as this Bills D team has so much more talent in terms of draft pick quality.

 

The Lions drafted great DT's, and then got stupid with them by going with the wide-nine defense. That move allowed teams to gouge them with the run so they shored up the run defense which left the passing game susceptible to the big play. #6 against the run, #23 against the pass, #24 in receiving, 27th in sacks.

 

My take where Detroit really fell on their face was in Matthew Stafford just not getting it done at the end of the season. Stafford had 13 picks in his last 7 games, and at the end of the season committed more turnovers and had more dropped passes then any other team the last 5 games. They also lost 6 of their last 7 games.

 

Lets not forget that Detroit went 4-12 in 2012. That Detroit team lacked an outside pass rush, and that offense could move the ball but had trouble scoring pts.

[YoloinOhio]

I doubt the Bills will look anything like the Lions D, as this Bills D team has so much more talent in terms of draft pick quality.

 

The Lions drafted great DT's, and then got stupid with them by going with the wide-nine defense. That move allowed teams to gouge them with the run so they shored up the run defense which left the passing game susceptible to the big play. #6 against the run, #23 against the pass, #24 in receiving, 27th in sacks.

 

My take where Detroit really fell on their face was in Matthew Stafford just not getting it done at the end of the season. Stafford had 13 picks in his last 7 games, and at the end of the season committed more turnovers and had more dropped passes then any other team the last 5 games. They also lost 6 of their last 7 games.

 

Lets not forget that Detroit went 4-12 in 2012. That Detroit team lacked an outside pass rush, and that offense could move the ball but had trouble scoring pts.

Then this year they brought in Reggie Bush and utilized Joique Bell a lot, I didn't look at any of their offensive stats but I watched some of their games and they could run the ball in short yardage and ran some great screens for Bush. I liked their offense. When Megatron was healthy which was only thr first part of the year, they were fun to watch. Edited January 29, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[bobobonators]

From what I heard this AM on the radio Stafford has broken / holds a lot of offensive records. (If those records actually mean anything in the NFL itself).

 

He is the 4th quarterback in NFL history to throw over 5,000 yards in a single season, including one of three in the 2011 NFL season (Drew Brees and Tom Brady).

 

Lions records

Stafford 100th career touchdown pass moved him atop the Lions' all-time list for career passing yardage.

Most Passing Touchdowns in a Single Season: 41 (2011) * I'll take that ANY season

Most Passing Touchdowns in a Game: 5

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....anchise_records

 

In 5 NFL seasons, Stafford has a W/L record of 24-37 in games he starts. 24-37. I understand it's a "team" game, but that's god-awful for someone who's supposed to be "good". Not only that, by looking at his games, one can almost make the argument that he has actually regressed as an NFL QB the last 2 seasons (after his best season in 2011).

[Tom]

Well Ralph is from Detroit...............

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

In 5 NFL seasons, Stafford has a W/L record of 24-37 in games he starts. 24-37. I understand it's a "team" game, but that's god-awful for someone who's supposed to be "good". Not only that, by looking at his games, one can almost make the argument that he has actually regressed as an NFL QB the last 2 seasons (after his best season in 2011).

I didn't say he was great.

 

how is that compared to the Bills record. 6-10, 6-10, 6-10, 4-12, 6-10, 7-9, 7-9..........

 

I'd still like to see the passing TD # higher than what we've seen. AND a playoff appearance.

Edited January 29, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[bobobonators]

how is that compared to the Bills record. 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9, 7-9.

 

I'd still like to see the passing TD # higher than what we've seen. AND a playoff appearance.

 

I don't see how comparing Stafford to the Bills record can be a positive endorsement. Stafford was the #1 Pick in the NFL draft and is getting paid BOATLOADS of money. Yet in 5 years he has compiled a 24-37 record playing with what may turn out to be the greatest WR in NFL history.

 

I can't take away from his stats, but the guy simply isn't a winner.

[YoloinOhio]

I don't see how comparing Stafford to the Bills record can be a positive endorsement. Stafford was the #1 Pick in the NFL draft and is getting paid BOATLOADS of money. Yet in 5 years he has compiled a 24-37 record playing with what may turn out to be the greatest WR in NFL history.

 

I can't take away from his stats, but the guy simply isn't a winner.

He hasn't been great, but he is still really young as he came into the league at 21. I think he could still improve... but it may be that he isn't a hard worker. I have no idea if that is true as I really don't follow him or the Lions, but other people have mentioned that. If true, he won't improve and his talent will never be fully realized in Wins.

[bobobonators]

He hasn't been great, but he is still really young as he came into the league at 21. I think he could still improve... but it may be that he isn't a hard worker. I have no idea if that is true as I really don't follow him or the Lions, but other people have mentioned that. If true, he won't improve and his talent will never be fully realized in Wins.

 

He definitely is young (25 I believe?), but much like his throwing mechanics, his consistency is all over the place. Not what you want from a "franchise" QB who is owed a lot of $$$. And Stafford's inconsistency is as much to blame as anything else for the Lions failures during Schwartz's tenure (which was my original point).

[thewildrabbit]

He hasn't been great, but he is still really young as he came into the league at 21. I think he could still improve... but it may be that he isn't a hard worker. I have no idea if that is true as I really don't follow him or the Lions, but other people have mentioned that. If true, he won't improve and his talent will never be fully realized in Wins.

I think he IS a franchise QB who almost always has the entire game to win or lose entirely on his shoulders. This is really not the way to develop a young QB. That and the fact that only one great WR won't get you very far, as one can be triple teamed and taken away.

 

Clearly Stafford is not a Peyton Manning, but then again he hasn't had the QB coaching / tutoring that Manning had. Manning had Tom Moore to teach him to call his own plays much the very same way Ted Marchibroda taught Jim Kelly to call his own plays.

 

He also had QB coach Jim Caldwell who was good enough to take over as HC of the Colts when Tony Dungy retired. Then OC of the SB winning Ravens, and now is the new HC of the Lions.

 

That said, I think it was a very smart move on the part of the Lions GM to hire Caldwell. Who will do wonders for that team offensively this season, and I would be surprised if the Lions drafted something other then one of the top 3 WR's at #10. Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans or Marquise Lee to help Calvin Johnson get open.

 

Good lord, can you imagine what kind of crazy match up that would be with 6'5'' WR Mike Evans & 6'5'' Calvin Johnson in the red zone

[YoloinOhio]

I think he IS a franchise QB who almost always has the entire game to win or lose entirely on his shoulders. This is really not the way to develop a young QB. That and the fact that only one great WR won't get you very far, as one can be triple teamed and taken away.

 

Clearly Stafford is not a Peyton Manning, but then again he hasn't had the QB coaching / tutoring that Manning had. Manning had Tom Moore to teach him to call his own plays much the very same way Ted Marchibroda taught Jim Kelly to call his own plays.

 

He also had QB coach Jim Caldwell who was good enough to take over as HC of the Colts when Tony Dungy retired. Then OC of the SB winning Ravens, and now is the new HC of the Lions.

 

That said, I think it was a very smart move on the part of the Lions GM to hire Caldwell. Who will do wonders for that team offensively this season, and I would be surprised if the Lions drafted something other then one of the top 3 WR's at #10. Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans or Marquise Lee to help Calvin Johnson get open.

 

Good lord, can you imagine what kind of crazy match up that would be with 6'5'' WR Mike Evans & 6'5'' Calvin Johnson in the red zone

I have said the same... I think it will be a good hire for them.

[T master]

He definitely is young (25 I believe?), but much like his throwing mechanics, his consistency is all over the place. Not what you want from a "franchise" QB who is owed a lot of $$$. And Stafford's inconsistency is as much to blame as anything else for the Lions failures during Schwartz's tenure (which was my original point).

 

Well thats great to here seeing as Marrone & company just hired Staffords QB coach of the last couple of years WOW just sent my confidence level through the roof when it comes to EJ getting better !!

[bobobonators]

 

 

Well thats great to here seeing as Marrone & company just hired Staffords QB coach of the last couple of years WOW just sent my confidence level through the roof when it comes to EJ getting better !!

 

Haha. I think it's more on Stafford than it is the coach. Stafford throws the ball from multiple release points and quite frequently side-armed. drives me mad watching him play at times (I wouldn't say I like the Lions but for whatever reason I find myself watching plenty of their games every season). And though he's still young, he has been in the league now 5 seasons. I don't want to go as far as to say "he is what he is" but I don't see anyone teaching that dog new tricks.

 

I fully expect a bunch of winning seasons from Stafford in the future, along with plenty of bad seasons.

Edited January 29, 2014 by bobobonators

[YoloinOhio]

Well thats great to here seeing as Marrone & company just hired Staffords QB coach of the last couple of years WOW just sent my confidence level through the roof when it comes to EJ getting better !!

I have no idea how good Downing is. But if you read through the thread about him/Schwartz, it sounds like Stafford is the one who didn't accept coaching and didn't work hard. We have heard the opposite on EJ. I am just glad they hired a QB coach, and he isn't from Syracuse.

[NoSaint]

really the fact that we are in a debate over which failed franchise is better is depressing. most teams fans would be incredibly insulted to be compared to the lions, while many here aspire to it.

 

hopefully we become much more than the lions last few years.

[bobobonators]

I have no idea how good Downing is. But if you read through the thread about him/Schwartz, it sounds like Stafford is the one who didn't accept coaching and didn't work hard. We have heard the opposite on EJ. I am just glad they hired a QB coach, and he isn't from Syracuse.

LOL

[NoSaint]

I have no idea how good Downing is. But if you read through the thread about him/Schwartz, it sounds like Stafford is the one who didn't accept coaching and didn't work hard. We have heard the opposite on EJ. I am just glad they hired a QB coach, and he isn't from Syracuse.

 

but i think that sentiment, though possibly (probably) very accurate, primarily came from posters simply saying "but yea, it was stafford so...."

 

[YoloinOhio]

but i think that sentiment, though possibly (probably) very accurate, primarily came from posters simply saying "but yea, it was stafford so...."

Right - I have never really followed Stafford closely enough (or the Lions) to know whether this lack of work ethic/uncoachable nature is any way true.... but seems to be a common assessment of him...

[thewildrabbit]

Well thats great to here seeing as Marrone & company just hired Staffords QB coach of the last couple of years WOW just sent my confidence level through the roof when it comes to EJ getting better !!

Yea, I don't see this move as an idea in just getting EJ some help, as I look at it more of a way to get all three young QB's some one on one help with an experienced NFL QB coach. This move is also freeing up the OC Nate Hackett to focus more on the game plans and play calling.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

From what I heard this AM on the radio Stafford has broken / holds a lot of offensive records. (If those records actually mean anything in the NFL itself).

 

He is the 4th quarterback in NFL history to throw over 5,000 yards in a single season, including one of three in the 2011 NFL season (Drew Brees and Tom Brady).

 

Lions records

Stafford 100th career touchdown pass moved him atop the Lions' all-time list for career passing yardage.

Most Passing Touchdowns in a Single Season: 41 (2011) * I'll take that ANY season

Most Passing Touchdowns in a Game: 5

 

http://en.wikipedia....anchise_records

 

Stafford is one of those quarterbacks who epitomizes the phrase "Good is the Enemy of Great". He roared back from injury his 2nd year to have a great season in his 3rd year. The Lions saw the playoffs in 2011 largely because of Stafford's play and a strong offense (top 5 that year) backed up by an adequate, mid-rank D (23rd).

 

The real question on Schwartz and the Lions is why, instead of building on the momentum of that performance, did they backslide to a horrid 2012 and mediocre 2013?

Stafford regressed to being kinda like "Ryan Fitzpatrick with an Arm" as a QB - a gamer, guy who tries to make things happen at the cost of throwing critical picks at the worst time of the game. 17, 19 picks last 2 years.

 

I don't know the answer to the "why, instead of building on 2011, did the Lions backslide"? I know their core coaching staff was the same (Linehan as OC, Gunther Cunningham as DC). The QB was the same. The DL was the same. 2 of their 4 DLmen were old guys in 2011 and stayed with at least one in 2012. They backslid on both O and D, 27th on D. Was it bringing in too many aging FA who put it together for 2011 and then ran out of gas, and 2013 saw an upswing as they were replaced with younger talent? I dunno.

 

Anyone else got some gouge?

 

The one thing that bothers me is that the Lions always struck me as an essentially undisciplined team, stupid dirty penalties at the wrong time. I don't think the Bills have been dirty, but their 2013 was marred by stupid penalties and the lack of discipline drove me nuts.

 

I'm not sure Schwartz is the right guy to turn that around, based upon what I saw from the Lions.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

In 5 NFL seasons, Stafford has a W/L record of 24-37 in games he starts. 24-37. I understand it's a "team" game, but that's god-awful for someone who's supposed to be "good". Not only that, by looking at his games, one can almost make the argument that he has actually regressed as an NFL QB the last 2 seasons (after his best season in 2011).

 

Dude! If you understand football is a team game (no quotes needed), then why are you hanging the Lions W/L on the QB? Very common mistake here, but usually coupled to the mistaken idea that the QB ought to carry the team. Ain't so. In case no one was watching, running game and D carried the Pats into the AFC championship game this year.

 

I agree with you that Stafford has regressed as an NFL QB the last 2 seasons. There's no question he has had a key impact on some of his team's losses and, as I said in another post, has kinda turned into Fitzpatrick with less smarts and more arm, throwing picks at inopportune moments.

 

On the other hand, he was drafted in 2009 into a totally crappy losing team and lost most of his 2nd year (when QB most progress) to a broken arm. The Lions D also regressed from 2011 to 2012, from mediocre 23rd on points to crappy 27th. Point is it simply doesn't pass the sanity check to hang all that on the QB except to say he's not the guy who can totally carry the team, which very few QB are, even the great ones, and even of those, they can't carry it all the way forever (eg Brady this year).