Bufcomments Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 A loser who's nice to everyone he meets who also has a wife and kids and 8 mil a year heading his way ? That's not losing kid. Losing to me is being the old guy who complains about TD celebrations. No one cares. amen brother Stevie is a good dude , so was Nelson . So was Choice. you don't make your team better by getting rid of good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 amen brother Stevie is a good dude , so was Nelson . So was Choice. you don't make your team better by getting rid of good players. Good people and good players are not always one in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) Exactly. Some Bills fans were relieved last offseason to get rid of guys like David Nelson, Ryan Fitzpatrick and TJack and the "overpaid" Andy Levitre. What they got instead was Stevie playing a postion he doesn't want to play......Kevin Kolb on IR.......and Colin Brown/Doug Legursky. I am all for getting rid of disappointing players but that can only be half of the transaction. The other half is replacing them with good players. This point has been in the back of my mind . And after your reminder BOB i think this might be more relevant to Stevies droppoff this year.I think he is butt hurt about Fitz too. And i can understand that kinda. We can vote yay or nay but i bet the FO will be doing exactly that during the offseason. SJ needs to show up these last games . If only to get him steered back in the right direction . His heart aint in it as far as i can tell. and to the obvious and wisely stated here , you dont get rid of him till you have something better. OMG i hope these rookie WRs develop quickly. PS i would trade Graham before SJ13 at this point based purely upon their play this season Edited December 14, 2013 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 amen brother Stevie is a good dude , so was Nelson . So was Choice. you don't make your team better by getting rid of good players. So was Kelsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 So was Kelsay. Kelsay was a very good dude and a consistent player. Take that as you may you make a team better by bringing in better than good players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Due to the rollover rules for the cap, it made absolutely no difference. Our 2014 cap would have been exactly the same figure had we put all of the Fitz dead cap hit in the 2013 year rather than the 2014 year. True, but why bother doing that? Maybe the team could have improved and been ready to make a FA splash next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I thought he was due a $1.75M bonus this year. No. My understanding is he was paid an 8.5M signing bonus and, over a 5 year contract, that is prorated from an accounting standpoint to 1.7 per year. But, what I don't know is something that was called an "option bonus" of $4M in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 No. My understanding is he was paid an 8.5M signing bonus and, over a 5 year contract, that is prorated from an accounting standpoint to 1.7 per year. But, what I don't know is something that was called an "option bonus" of $4M in 2013. Per Rotoworld: Stevie Johnson Wide Receiver 3/5/2012: Signed a five-year, $36.25 million contract. The deal contains $18.05 million guaranteed, including an $8.5 million signing bonus, initial workout bonus of $100,000, and all of Johnson's first-year base salary. Johnson is eligible for an annual $275,000 workout bonus in years two through five. 2013: $2.55 million (+ $4.5 million option bonus), 2014: $3.65 million (+ $1.75 million roster bonus), 2015: $5.5 million (+ $250,000 roster bonus), 2016: $5.85 million, 2017: Free Agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 This point has been in the back of my mind . And after your reminder BOB i think this might be more relevant to Stevies droppoff this year. I think he is butt hurt about Fitz too. And i can understand that kinda. We can vote yay or nay but i bet the FO will be doing exactly that during the offseason. SJ needs to show up these last games . If only to get him steered back in the right direction . His heart aint in it as far as i can tell. and to the obvious and wisely stated here , you dont get rid of him till you have something better. OMG i hope these rookie WRs develop quickly. PS i would trade Graham before SJ13 at this point based purely upon their play this season I don't think there is any question that he doesn't want to play the slot. More big hits, less yards to be had. Slot receivers earn less in general, as well. It's basically grunt work done by guys who are often too small to be effective on the outside or by big TE's who rarely approach WR earnings. Look at Welker, he just got two concussions in the span of 8 days. Stevie is a finesse player, his lack of deep speed makes him less than ideal outside but the slot clearly doesn't suit him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Per Rotoworld: Stevie Johnson Wide Receiver 3/5/2012: Signed a five-year, $36.25 million contract. The deal contains $18.05 million guaranteed, including an $8.5 million signing bonus, initial workout bonus of $100,000, and all of Johnson's first-year base salary. Johnson is eligible for an annual $275,000 workout bonus in years two through five. 2013: $2.55 million (+ $4.5 million option bonus), 2014: $3.65 million (+ $1.75 million roster bonus), 2015: $5.5 million (+ $250,000 roster bonus), 2016: $5.85 million, 2017: Free Agent Thanks. Again…forget about the accounting hit (cap)… The Bills owe SJ13 just over $5m for next year's salary. So they would save over $10M in actual cash (over 2 years) if they cut ties with Johnson. They are stuck with his cap number whether he's on the team or not. The question is does the current regime think he's worth $5m/ year. I think the next 3 games will give an idea of what direction their going in and my guess is….gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 For some reason, I think the people who want SJ gone would be the first ones complaining when he is a very productive on another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Kelsay was a very good dude and a consistent player. Take that as you may you make a team better by bringing in better than good players Consistently not a a very high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Would someone please explain the cap issues to me again. If Stevie WAS traded for a 3rd, exactly what would his cap space be for Buffalo in 2014? Are we free of him completely? Just cutting him would make no sense with his dead cap. To my knowledge, any pre-paid monies paid to a to a player from their original team have to be tallied and accounted for under the original teams cap. Any other monies, including guaranteed(but not yet paid) monies are taken up by the trading team. In regards to SJ being traded....as best I can figure it.....we will need to pick up the remainder of his Signing Bonus(1.7M x 3 = 5.1M). He has scheduled 0.275M guaranteed bonuses each year which we won't have to pick up. He also is due 1.75M in 2014 and 0.25M in 2015 which I am assuming are guaranteed as well. The short of it is that if he gets traded, it looks like his dead cap hit will be only 5.1M rather than 8.475M.......meaning we would be better off by 3.4M rather than just 25K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 For some reason, I think the people who want SJ gone would be the first ones complaining when he is a very productive on another team. Nope. Not the case for me at all. We've seen him produce, he's obviously capable of it. I, however, am on record saying he needs to go to a place where he can sink into a support role and not be a leader. He'll never be that in Buffalo, but if he finds it elsewhere, I fully expect him to be productive, as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Forget about cap hit. What do the Bills owe SJ13 in 2014? I can't tell if its $3.6 M or there's a $4M option bonus in there. I think it's very relevant to whether the Bills keep him. Does anyone know? His cash hit if we keep him will be(as best I can figure).... 3.65M in salary, plus 1.75M in roster bonus, plus 0.275M in workout bonus.....total = 5.675M True, but why bother doing that? Maybe the team could have improved and been ready to make a FA splash next year. I don't think you understood. The 2014 cap room that we would have if we put the Fitz money into the 2013 year would be exactly the same as how we have done it by putting it in the 2014 year. As the team wouldn't have had extra money in the 2014 cap, there is no extra room for improvement via FA splash next year. In regards to the rollover rules, it seems to me that there is no benefits to not move the dead money to the next year if you can. It provides extra cap room in the first year for potential FA or re-signing moves......and on a cynical view, pushes your following years numbers up to achieve the minimum amount needed. With that said, I would think that if we do cut SJ it could well be after the 2014 year starts(June)......unless there are some non-guaranteed monies due the instant the new NFL year clicks over. This would then enable the team to spread the cap hit over 2014/2015 similarly to Fitz(but again wouldn't effect the final cap numbers of the 2015 year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) We can cut em and take an 8 mil cap hit, or keep em and pay him 5.x mil. No brainer. He's a Bill. Although...we dont have a QB to get him the ball so there's that too....to complicate matters. Edited December 14, 2013 by jaybee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 We can cut em and take an 8 mil cap hit, or keep em and pay him 5.x mil. No brainer. He's a Bill. Although...we dont have a QB to get him the ball so there's that too....to complicate matters. I don't think it a no brainer at all. Assuming that it has been determined that he will not be part of the Bills future plans, the question becomes is he cut in 2014 or in 2015. If cut in 2014, he doesn't play for us and we save a chunk of cash as well as over 5.6M for the 2015 cap. Is he worth 5.6+M in cap room(plus the chunk of cash) for his one year of play(2014)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlaw Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Keep SJ. It's up to Hackett to find a way to best utilise his undoubted talents. But SJ needs to accept he is not going to be the #1 guy next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelee Phoenix Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 I said yes, but only via trade. I'd take a 2nd round value. No to cutting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Keep SJ. It's up to Hackett to find a way to best utilise his undoubted talents. But SJ needs to accept he is not going to be the #1 guy next season. He's only our #2 if they bring in a FA or Woods develops very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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