Ethanol is ''good'' and ''green''

[TPS]

Thanks. Now, let me, as a consultant manager(have to help DC_Tom along in his Children's Crusade) simplify something for you:

Let's say I create the conditions where my organization overbills for expenses. I created the system that tracks billing(that I say is going to stop overbilling, yet, doesn't.) But, the only people who know WTF we are doing are my employees, or ex-employee consultants who I've hired to "regulate billing", which means they are the only people who can reasonably say what is overbilling, and what isn't.

 

Are my employees/consultants/George W Bush at fault, or am I?

 

Answer: I am. I created the damn system. I created the conditions for it's corruption.

 

You are complaining about corporations...using the very facility you dopey leftists created. Stop creating the damn facility.

 

Stop believing you can control something you know nothing about. Stop creating the conditions, the agencies, the very regulation mechanisms you keep selling as "the answer". They are the reason government can be "captured". They are the friggin vehicle!

 

If a Congress critter has nothing to sell, then ADM(or whoever) has nothing...to buy.

 

The more you involve government, the more power you give politicians to determine who gets helped/harmed, the more you increase the chance for corruption of government. This shoud be common sense.

 

Create laws, not regs. This way, when you break the law, you go do jail. If you can't create laws? STFU. We live by the rule of law. Not by the rule of regulation...

 

= whaaaa..."I can't manage these regs, because I'm "captured", because the smart guys at company X, Y, and Z are smart(which is why they work there, and not the government), and they know how to nail my silly government ass coming and going"

 

Or, as in my case, "they hire consultants to make me look stupid!" So, that if there's a problem...well? "Bad consultant! Go to your room!"

 

There's a reason the CEO is who he is, and the government employee is who she is, and sure as hell there's a reason why consultants are who they are. When we forget that, we create the conditions for failure.

 

I can't believe you're dumbfounded: that people in business aren't going to lay down and take whatever nonsense you statists decide to put together next, and then? Cry when that nonsense gets corrupted by the very people you say should have EVEN MORE POWER: the politicians and the regulators?

 

Staggers the imagination.

 

How about: Stop empowering people whose net worth increases exponentially the longer they are in Congress? What the hell is so hard to understand about this?

 

How about pass laws? How about: let the DOJ prosecute offenders in a court of law? Stop selling who wins and loses via regulation.

You really think that's the solution? "Just get rid of regulators and make good laws." You're as dumb and idealistic as your liberal bogeyman. Have you noticed that "corporations are people" now? How did that come about?

[OCinBuffalo]

You really think that's the solution? "Just get rid of regulators and make good laws." You're as dumb and idealistic as your liberal bogeyman. Have you noticed that "corporations are people" now? How did that come about?

I don't know, perhaps around the same time lawyers started calling themselves a "cost of doing business"? I'm thinking the 1600s. Perhaps you should ask the lawyers, and see if they know their history?

 

The answer to all of this lies in your question: am I responsible for "corporations are people"? I don't recall doing that. Who did?

 

How about you stop trying to pretend that lawyers working for corrupt politicians/kings, all the way back in the 1600s, DIDN'T CREATE THE NEED for corporations to exist in the first damn place.

 

I tell you the obvious: and your reaction to it...is to call me dumb. Notice, you didn't deny what I said at all did you? Specifically, you didn't deny that your own regulations, and the agencies that "manage" them are the vehicle by which government becomes "captured".

 

You don't seem to understand that you can't dig yourself out of a hole. Put the shovel down. Or, better, take the shovel out of the hands of the very people who keep digging the hole: politicians. Again, if your friends in government have nothing to sell, ADM et al, has nothing to buy.

 

It really is simple, isn't it? Perhaps when you stop supporting legislating bribery? And stop creating the vehicles for lawyers to sue everybody, all the time? You just might get it?

 

How about we get some rational legal reform in this country and "capture" the majority of the utterly useless lawyers in this country, thus taking away the stimulus for corporations to hire their own lawyers, and continue this game? That's precisely how "corporations became people". (And really, the context of that is long gone: people have jobs at corporations. They work there. Therefore, corporations are "people".)

 

Then, we'd be getting somewhere.

 

We have skin because of sunlight's ability to damage us. We have corporations, because we have lawyers. Both are natural responses to damaging stimulus.

 

Talking about corporations, and not lawyers, is like pretending skin just came out of nowhere, on it's own.

 

It's childish.

Edited November 23, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[TPS]

I don't know, perhaps around the same time lawyers started calling themselves a "cost of doing business"? I'm thinking the 1600s. Perhaps you should ask the lawyers, and see if they know their history?

 

The answer to all of this lies in your question: am I responsible for "corporations are people"? I don't recall doing that. Who did?

 

How about you stop trying to pretend that lawyers working for corrupt politicians/kings, all the way back in the 1600s, DIDN'T CREATE THE NEED for corporations to exist in the first damn place.

 

I tell you the obvious: and your reaction to it...is to call me dumb. Notice, you didn't deny what I said at all did you? Specifically, you didn't deny that your own regulations, and the agencies that "manage" them are the vehicle by which government becomes "captured".

 

You don't seem to understand that you can't dig yourself out of a hole. Put the shovel down. Or, better, take the shovel out of the hands of the very people who keep digging the hole: politicians. Again, if your friends in government have nothing to sell, ADM et al, has nothing to buy.

 

It really is simple, isn't it? Perhaps when you stop supporting legislating bribery? And stop creating the vehicles for lawyers to sue everybody, all the time? You just might get it?

 

How about we get some rational legal reform in this country and "capture" the majority of the utterly useless lawyers in this country, thus taking away the stimulus for corporations to hire their own lawyers, and continue this game? That's precisely how "corporations became people". (And really, the context of that is long gone: people have jobs at corporations. They work there. Therefore, corporations are "people".)

 

Then, we'd be getting somewhere.

 

We have skin because of sunlight's ability to damage us. We have corporations, because we have lawyers. Both are natural responses to damaging stimulus.

 

Talking about corporations, and not lawyers, is like pretending skin just came out of nowhere, on it's own.

 

It's childish.

Gosh, if we only got rid of lawyers now, all would be well. The problem with your story, and it's a problem with most of the right-leaning types, is the belief that markets work. All we need to do is make "good laws" and all of those "I can never tell a lie" corporations will fall right in line...

 

Do you really think if we eliminated the regulators that big corporate interests would not influence the laws to their favor? That's why I said your idea is dumb and idealistic. You really think eliminating lawyers and regulators would "eliminate" corporate power and influence? What exactly would be the counter-weight to corporate power in your idealized world? The market? That's the propaganda that's sold by corporate interests and you righties swallow hook, line, and sinker. Don't let government interfere with the markets, so we corporations can control them. Wealth=power; and power=control. The laws are shaped and made by and for the wealthy.

 

There are two economies in this country. The dominant economy is controlled by the wealthy and big corporations, who make the laws and have captured the government. Then there are all of the small businesses (AND farms) that struggle to operate in a system that's designed for the big players. It's this economy that you guys on the right think you're supporting when you make your arguments, and that's exactly where you act dumb and naive--you are supporting the factions that control the broader economy.

 

You've tried to paint me into your typical liberal bogeyman caricature. When it comes to politics, I've stated for years here at PPP (even before you got here) that I haven't voted for a major party candidate since 1992. The system has been captured. I believe we are closer to a fascist state at the national level than a democracy. Notice, I didn't state what the solution should be (yet). I never stated it was more regulation. You think all it takes is good laws. Laws won't matter if you can buy those who interpret them...

 

Is there a solution? There have been two periods where the wealthy corporate interests have been pushed back: the Populist movement and the New Deal. The Tea Party and Occupy WS were two populist movements at opposite ends of the spectrum. It appears that these threats to the system have been or are being dismantled. If the people of this country are too apathetic or too distracted to take it back, the we will continue on the road to serfdom. And all of the good laws you hope for won't amount to a hill of beans...

[Azalin]

If the people of this country are too apathetic or too distracted to take it back, the we will continue on the road to serfdom.

I couldn't agree with this statement more. too many people I speak with believe that special interests have usurped power to the point where voting is a worthless endeavor, but I still believe.....maybe naively so.....that if people actually got involved and voted, they'd be taking back the power they ceded to special interests.

 

staying informed and being involved takes at least a modicum of thought and effort, which seems to be too high a price for too many people to pay.

[DC Tom]

staying informed and being involved takes at least a modicum of thought and effort, which seems to be too high a price for too many people to pay.

 

Dancing With the Stars is on tonight. It's the finals. Priorities, man.

 

This announcement brought to you by Brawndo. It has electrolytes.

[OCinBuffalo]

Gosh, if we only got rid of lawyers now, all would be well. The problem with your story, and it's a problem with most of the right-leaning types, is the belief that markets work. All we need to do is make "good laws" and all of those "I can never tell a lie" corporations will fall right in line...

 

Do you really think if we eliminated the regulators that big corporate interests would not influence the laws to their favor? That's why I said your idea is dumb and idealistic. You really think eliminating lawyers and regulators would "eliminate" corporate power and influence? What exactly would be the counter-weight to corporate power in your idealized world? The market? That's the propaganda that's sold by corporate interests and you righties swallow hook, line, and sinker. Don't let government interfere with the markets, so we corporations can control them. Wealth=power; and power=control. The laws are shaped and made by and for the wealthy.

 

There are two economies in this country. The dominant economy is controlled by the wealthy and big corporations, who make the laws and have captured the government. Then there are all of the small businesses (AND farms) that struggle to operate in a system that's designed for the big players. It's this economy that you guys on the right think you're supporting when you make your arguments, and that's exactly where you act dumb and naive--you are supporting the factions that control the broader economy.

 

You've tried to paint me into your typical liberal bogeyman caricature. When it comes to politics, I've stated for years here at PPP (even before you got here) that I haven't voted for a major party candidate since 1992. The system has been captured. I believe we are closer to a fascist state at the national level than a democracy. Notice, I didn't state what the solution should be (yet). I never stated it was more regulation. You think all it takes is good laws. Laws won't matter if you can buy those who interpret them...

 

Is there a solution? There have been two periods where the wealthy corporate interests have been pushed back: the Populist movement and the New Deal. The Tea Party and Occupy WS were two populist movements at opposite ends of the spectrum. It appears that these threats to the system have been or are being dismantled. If the people of this country are too apathetic or too distracted to take it back, the we will continue on the road to serfdom. And all of the good laws you hope for won't amount to a hill of beans...

I wonder....where is TPS now, in 2017,...that Trump's populist movement, coupled with Steve Bannon's "destruction of the administrative state", have won...going away?

 

I wonder if TPS sees Trump's well-known and quoted, literal, push back on the "wealthy corporate interests" who ship jobs out of the country and cheap(in some cases lethal) products in...fits with what he wrote above. I wonder what his current "caricature" looks like. Perhaps the liberal boogeyman who can't get over the fact that slowly cutting away the JFK Democrats from the party was a terrible idea, and, can't stop talking about Russia(which is about to kill them == as I write this, the "smoking gun" that proves there was "political surveillance", is about to turn on the Democrats like a mother-in-law...just like tax returns).

 

Yappity, yappity, but here we are, again: I was right. I am right because giving Congress too much to sell, is now recognized as a BIGLY problem. Trump wouldn't be president otherwise.

 

I am the boogeyman for all of you: because I always end up being right in the end. Consider: I have a database of every stupid thing any of you have ever written, and I simply lie in wait for your idiocy to disprove itself. Shall we discuss "The Surge" in Iraq again, etc.?

 

In the end, the only person that was "captured", was TPS.

Edited March 24, 2017 by OCinBuffalo