KOKBILLS Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Respectfully, I'm not sure that's correct. He can't be offered a multi-year deal at this point, but he could be offered a 1 yr deal at a higher price or with special clauses if the team considered that to their benefit. Rumor has it Parker is seeking a clause prohibiting the Bills from tagging Byrd next year. Exactly...And that's why I say let him holdout as long as he wants...And I think Whaley agrees with me based on where we are now...The truth is the Bills are in year one of a complete overhaul from the FO down to the place kicker...To give up their right to get something in return for Byrd would be seriously stupid IMHO...And I realize the Bills are never going to get a 1st and a 3rd back for Byrd...But with the tag they can negotiate compensation, which I'm guessing in the end will turn out to be a 2nd round pick...In no way do I want the Bills to give that right up...Let him rot at home... Edited August 18, 2013 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Exactly...And that's why I say let him holdout as long as he wants...And I think Whaley agrees with me based on where we are now...The truth is the Bills are in year one of a complete overhaul from the FO down to the place kicker...To give up their right to get something in return for Byrd would be seriously stupid IMHO...And I realize the Bills are never going to get a 1st and a 3rd back for Byrd...But with the tag they can negotiate compensation, which I'm guessing in the end will turn out to be a 2nd round pick...In no way do I want the Bills to give that right up...Let him rot at home... I disagree. Who says we can't win this year with the talent we got and the genius coaches we have? Lets get our best players out there. Byrd is a stud. Even if we only have this year, I'll take it. If we have to we can either sign some other FA safety or draft one next year. Are you willing to sacrifice yet another season in the name of rebuild and hope that someday we'll be good? Guess what, next year we lose more guys than Byrd. It's a treadmill. Every year you lose guys and get new guys. The days of building up a whole team from scratch and then making a run for it when you got a core you'll have for 8 - 10 years is OVER. Don't work that way anymore. That's so 70s/80s/early 90s. Put your best out there and take your chances THIS YEAR. I don't want to teach Bryd a lesson or make him rot at home, I want him on my team helping us win. He got 3 late game turnovers sealing 2 wins last year. May not make much difference when you're 6-10, but if you can muster 8-8, those extra 2 games could mean playoffs baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I'm with KO on this. Sorry RDB, it's insane to give up the 2nd year tag on Byrd. He will come in or leave $7 mil on the table. If he is not excited to play on this new aggressive D where he stands to become a pick-off machine, let'em play Madden at home for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 As I've said before, Searcy is a Whitner-like player. Very good against the run, a bit of a liability in the pass game. Glad he wasn't a high-round pick. I dont know I would trust him in the run game either. He can't tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefootballexpert Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Not to worry Byrd will be back for the regular season. Byrd and Williams should do fine. We don't have to worry about replacing Searcy until next season. They can either pick one up this off season in free agency or draft one. I think Byrd will come in for the regular season, I doubt he would sit out the year and lose 6 or 7 million. I was hoping they would have picked up LeRon Landry this past off season but they didn't. This organization hates to spend money. He would have been that hard hitting force a good team needs. He puts fear in players going over the middle. Old Buddy was napping when LeRon became available. I'm surprised Petine didn't lobby hard to sign Landry. Edited August 18, 2013 by thefootballexpert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I dont know I would trust him in the run game either. He can't tackle. I disagree and I'd bet your basing your opinion on one missed tackle on the Brooks forced fumble play. I was hoping they would have picked up LeRon Landry this past off season but they didn't. This organization hates to spend money. He would have been that hard hitting force a good team needs. He puts fear in players going over the middle. Old Buddy was napping when LeRon became available. I'm surprised Petine didn't lobby hard to sign Landry. Firstly I think it's 50/50 that Searcy starts even without Byrd reporting. As for Landry you said: 1) Buddy was napping 2) The Bills don't like to spend money.3) Petine (sic) didn't lobby hard to sign him. Which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I disagree. Who says we can't win this year with the talent we got and the genius coaches we have? Lets get our best players out there. Byrd is a stud. Even if we only have this year, I'll take it. If we have to we can either sign some other FA safety or draft one next year. Are you willing to sacrifice yet another season in the name of rebuild and hope that someday we'll be good? Guess what, next year we lose more guys than Byrd. It's a treadmill. Every year you lose guys and get new guys. The days of building up a whole team from scratch and then making a run for it when you got a core you'll have for 8 - 10 years is OVER. Don't work that way anymore. That's so 70s/80s/early 90s. Put your best out there and take your chances THIS YEAR. I don't want to teach Bryd a lesson or make him rot at home, I want him on my team helping us win. He got 3 late game turnovers sealing 2 wins last year. May not make much difference when you're 6-10, but if you can muster 8-8, those extra 2 games could mean playoffs baby. So...You think not bringing Byrd back = sacrificing yet another season in the name of a rebuild? He's one player...And if you don't think the Bills are in year one of a complete overhaul I don't know what to tell you...Yes it looks very promising due to the Coaches...But it's preseason...And this is a VERY young team...The fact that it looks so good is further incentive for the Bills to make darn sure they get something in return for Byrd next off season...This roster is going to need that extra pick...It will build on something much bigger than what this season may or may not be if they give in to Byrd's pos agent...Plus chances are still very likely Byrd is back by game 2-3 anyway... Don't get me wrong...I'm not blind...I know Byrd is a very good Safety...Probably a top 10 Saftey in the NFL...But the writing is on the wall with this one...He does not want to be in Buffalo...To me it's crystal clear...He's allowing his agent to push this thing to the very end for nothing more than the insurance that the Bills cannot secure compensation for him next season...He does not want to be here...Now...I'm not sure if it's simply because he's a west coast guy, or because the Bills have sucked since he's been here, or whatever...But I'm going under the educated-guess/assumption that the guy does not want to sign long term in Buffalo for anything less than being the top paid S in the NFL...And he is NOT the top playing S in the NFL...So...If I'm the Bills there is no way I'm giving an inch...And whatever that leads to...well...it's just going to have to do for now...I think they overcome it somehow, someway regardless... But in no way do I believe that Jarius Byrd is the difference maker between another 6-10 season and the playoffs...EJ Manuel? Yes...JB...Not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 So...You think not bringing Byrd back = sacrificing yet another season in the name of a rebuild? He's one player...And if you don't think the Bills are in year one of a complete overhaul I don't know what to tell you...Yes it looks very promising due to the Coaches...But it's preseason...And this is a VERY young team...The fact that it looks so good is further incentive for the Bills to make darn sure they get something in return for Byrd next off season...This roster is going to need that extra pick...It will build on something much bigger than what this season may or may not be if they give in to Byrd's pos agent...Plus chances are still very likely Byrd is back by game 2-3 anyway... Don't get me wrong...I'm not blind...I know Byrd is a very good Safety...Probably a top 10 Saftey in the NFL...But the writing is on the wall with this one...He does not want to be in Buffalo...To me it's crystal clear...He's allowing his agent to push this thing to the very end for nothing more than the insurance that the Bills cannot secure compensation for him next season...He does not want to be here...Now...I'm not sure if it's simply because he's a west coast guy, or because the Bills have sucked since he's been here, or whatever...But I'm going under the educated-guess/assumption that the guy does not want to sign long term in Buffalo for anything less than being the top paid S in the NFL...And he is NOT the top playing S in the NFL...So...If I'm the Bills there is no way I'm giving an inch...And whatever that leads to...well...it's just going to have to do for now...I think they overcome it somehow, someway regardless... But in no way do I believe that Jarius Byrd is the difference maker between another 6-10 season and the playoffs...EJ Manuel? Yes...JB...Not so much... He is just one player but he is also one of the Bills best players. This may be an overhaul year but that doesn't mean we don't want to make a run for the playoffs. The 49'ers went 13-3 and were a field goal out of the super bowl in their first year with Jim Harbaugh even though they were considered one of the worst teams in the league prior to the season starting. I see no reason the Bills can't attempt something similar to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 He is just one player but he is also one of the Bills best players. This may be an overhaul year but that doesn't mean we don't want to make a run for the playoffs. The 49'ers went 13-3 and were a field goal out of the super bowl in their first year with Jim Harbaugh even though they were considered one of the worst teams in the league prior to the season starting. I see no reason the Bills can't attempt something similar to that. If so they can do it with or without a guy that clearly does not want to be in Buffalo and has a prick for an agent... That's just my opinion though...We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 You have QBs and then you have players who approach the impact that a QB would have like Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson. As good as he is much farther down the list you have players like Jairus Byrd. Except for a few QBs and a few other superstar players, no individual is more important than the team. Byrd is not more important than the team. He and Parker wanted to play hardball with the team and the team has obliged them. The willingness of the Bills to play hardball will serve them well now and in the future as it has for many other successful but fiscally-minded organizations. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 You have QBs and then you have players who approach the impact that a QB would have like Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson. As good as he is much farther down the list you have players like Jairus Byrd. Except for a few QBs and a few other superstar players, no individual is more important than the team. Byrd is not more important than the team. He and Parker wanted to play hardball with the team and the team has obliged them. The willingness of the Bills to play hardball will serve them well now and in the future as it has for many other successful but fiscally-minded organizations. JMO. Agreed 100% my friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I disagree and I'd bet your basing your opinion on one missed tackle on the Brooks forced fumble play. no. I've watched both games. I saw him get decent pressure when blitzing, and one good tackle on an inside run, late against the Vikings. I've also seen him burnt all over, and not being able to bring his guy down alone. Both games, he's looked lost in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 no. I've watched both games. I saw him get decent pressure when blitzing, and one good tackle on an inside run, late against the Vikings. I've also seen him burnt all over, and not being able to bring his guy down alone. Both games, he's looked lost in space. He does get lost in space. But I think he's a good run defender. Anyways, we seem to agree that he's got to get a lot better or be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Can't get more then the tag at this point, its the tag or he sits Not true. 9. Long-term deals can be negotiated, through July 15. Previously, the window for a team signing its franchise player to a long-term deal closed not long after the free-agency period started and then opened again on July 15. Now, the window remains open until July 15. After July 15, the franchise player can sign only a one-year deal with his current team. It can be for more than the franchise tender, and it can include other terms, like playing-time or performance triggers that would prevent the tag from being used again. But the duration can be no more than one year. Respectfully, I'm not sure that's correct. He can't be offered a multi-year deal at this point, but he could be offered a 1 yr deal at a higher price or with special clauses if the team considered that to their benefit. Rumor has it Parker is seeking a clause prohibiting the Bills from tagging Byrd next year. I would say, why not sign that deal? with one proviso: the Bills are offered the opportunity to match any deal that Byrd gets in 2014. Tell me a good reason why this doesn't work. It's sort of like a modified Transition tag, that is more fair to Byrd than the Franchise tag, and says to the Bills "I want to stay -- it's just a money isssue." If, in 2014, he'd really rather be with said other team for less money, the Bills can get even a late-round draft pick out of it. Get creative. If the Bills offered this in addition to an $8MM or even $9MM one-year deal, it would be the best-faith move they could make. Controlling him for two years and playing hardball with the franchise tag is ultimately going to be counter-productive for both parties. The one issue here could be a reluctance on Byrd's part to play for anything other than a multiyear deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Not true. 9. Long-term deals can be negotiated, through July 15. Previously, the window for a team signing its franchise player to a long-term deal closed not long after the free-agency period started and then opened again on July 15. Now, the window remains open until July 15. After July 15, the franchise player can sign only a one-year deal with his current team. It can be for more than the franchise tender, and it can include other terms, like playing-time or performance triggers that would prevent the tag from being used again. But the duration can be no more than one year. I would say, why not sign that deal? with one proviso: the Bills are offered the opportunity to match any deal that Byrd gets in 2014. Tell me a good reason why this doesn't work. It's sort of like a modified Transition tag, that is more fair to Byrd than the Franchise tag, and says to the Bills "I want to stay -- it's just a money isssue." If, in 2014, he'd really rather be with said other team for less money, the Bills can get even a late-round draft pick out of it. Get creative. If the Bills offered this in addition to an $8MM or even $9MM one-year deal, it would be the best-faith move they could make. Controlling him for two years and playing hardball with the franchise tag is ultimately going to be counter-productive for both parties. The one issue here could be a reluctance on Byrd's part to play for anything other than a multiyear deal. I don't have any problem with the Bills getting creative to get Byrd in...But in no way, shape, or form should they give up their right to tag him for proper compensation...And that seems to be exactly what his agent is lobbying for...Byrd has value to the Bills as a tradable commodity after the 2013 season if nothing more...There should be no doubt the Bills can get a decent Draft pick in return for him once he gets his way and moves on...I'm guessing the asking price will be a 2nd round pick...That's a heck of a good piece for a team looking to challenge over the next few years...The whole standoff right now is about the Bills desire to secure the right to that compensation, and the pos agent's desire to take that away in order to be free and clear to go to the highest bidder and leave the Bills with nothing... I applaud Whaley for standing his ground in this case...I think they wanted Byrd to stay long term at the beginning of this process...but now they realize the writing is on the wall...So they are going to let it play out...And if Byrd does not back off his desire to be the top paid safety in the NFL, they'll tag him and deal him next off season... BTW...KC did not back down to Dwayne Bowe last year...Bowe held out last year, and they did not give up the right to tag him again...They did so, and he ended up resigning anyway...So it can work out that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 But in no way do I believe that Jarius Byrd is the difference maker between another 6-10 season and the playoffs... I said I thought Byrd could be the difference between going 8-8 and the playoffs. I'm just not into the whole rebuilding thing many here are including you. And I don't think our talent is so bad that we can't make a serious push for WC this year. I'm not basing this on the pre season. Pre sesaon means nothing, wait, less than nothing. I'm basing it on talent on had. Last year we won 6 games and if we had even a mid pack D we could have been in the mix. I also agree that it looks like Byrd wants out. Who can blame him? 4 DCs in 5 years and so far they have all sucked. We'll find out if Pettine can make it work soon. I just think he's a good enough player that we need him on the team this year. We can find another safety and worry about next year next year. If he plays this year and we make WC or get really close, maybe he decides to stick around after all? Could happen. A guy can hope. I suspect he'll be arriving soon. No way he sits out and loses millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaikotic Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 wow..did you guys take over this thread for Byrd's cause or what..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 wow..did you guys take over this thread for Byrd's cause or what..lol its clear you do not realize the word. It is of a certain ornathologic species... Byrd byrd byrd byrd byrd byrd byrd byrd byrd Everyone knows of this flying animal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I don't have any problem with the Bills getting creative to get Byrd in...But in no way, shape, or form should they give up their right to tag him for proper compensation...And that seems to be exactly what his agent is lobbying for...Byrd has value to the Bills as a tradable commodity after the 2013 season if nothing more...There should be no doubt the Bills can get a decent Draft pick in return for him once he gets his way and moves on...I'm guessing the asking price will be a 2nd round pick...That's a heck of a good piece for a team looking to challenge over the next few years...The whole standoff right now is about the Bills desire to secure the right to that compensation, and the pos agent's desire to take that away in order to be free and clear to go to the highest bidder and leave the Bills with nothing... Why is he a POS agent? He's doing his job. Byrd wants a long-term deal commensurate with what he feels is his worth in the league. Complicating this is that he has played under 2nd rounder money for the past four years and certainly given the Bills great value on his contract. I think that the money is ridiculous in real-world terms, but the Bills and the league operate in an antitrust-litigation-free vacuum. There is money there for everyone. Byrd cannot freely negotiate his worth with another team, so the only thing he can do is play hardball or forgo a long-term deal and risk getting hurt and losing it all. Honestly, if Byrd and Parker should be criticized for anything, it's that they've wasted that opportunity to get a long-term deal in 2013, and that that risk is on the table even if he only plays six games. At this point, I do not blame him for waiting until the last minute to sign this deal. It's a lot of money, but if he gets hurt badly it could be the last big payday he ever sees. If you are a smart man and you see what happens to guys like Kevin Everett, or the money issues that so many older players have had, you get what you can while you have the earning power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) Why is he a POS agent? He's doing his job. Byrd wants a long-term deal commensurate with what he feels is his worth in the league. Complicating this is that he has played under 2nd rounder money for the past four years and certainly given the Bills great value on his contract. I think that the money is ridiculous in real-world terms, but the Bills and the league operate in an antitrust-litigation-free vacuum. There is money there for everyone. Byrd cannot freely negotiate his worth with another team, so the only thing he can do is play hardball or forgo a long-term deal and risk getting hurt and losing it all. Honestly, if Byrd and Parker should be criticized for anything, it's that they've wasted that opportunity to get a long-term deal in 2013, and that that risk is on the table even if he only plays six games. At this point, I do not blame him for waiting until the last minute to sign this deal. It's a lot of money, but if he gets hurt badly it could be the last big payday he ever sees. If you are a smart man and you see what happens to guys like Kevin Everett, or the money issues that so many older players have had, you get what you can while you have the earning power. Folks say his agent is a POS because this holdout does not help the team and I think although most of us understand that players want as much compensation as possible, we are ultimately concerned about what the team does in the W/L column. No surprises there, or at least there shouldn't be. But the argument could be made that he is a tough agent just doing his job for his client and if we were professional athletes we would probably want him representing us as well, but in the case of Bryd he may be over-estimating his value in the new Pettine system. There is no way that Whaley is going to cave in on this either. I have a feeling that if he needs to he will be perfectly fine with Byrd sitting out and losing an entire year. Folks scratched their heads when the Bills went after two safeties in the draft in Jonathan Meeks and Duke Williams, and then they added UFA Dangerfield as well. Teams do not pick up 3 safeties as a contingency if they plan on negotiating more than they have. The other reason I do not feel that Whaley will bend is because if he does then the playbook for every contract-year player negotiation will be the same thing - holdout, holdout,..and more holdout. Edited August 19, 2013 by ColdBlueNorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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