The one position we should not take at 8

[Cheddar's Dad]

Really?

Did you use telepathetic powers to understand why the OP would list virtually every position as "the best way to go" yet failed to mention any thoughts about the QB position(which he later acknowledged was our greatest need)......or some sort of special logic that I'm unaware of?

 

Nope! I have no powers whatsoever or special logic. I just read the post and got it. Sad that you think that an ordinary person's ability to read and understand is special.

[Dibs]

He is just simply saying that he understands the reason why i didnt list quarterback....because we arent taking one at 8. Although its our biggest need like we have agreed on its just not going to happen.....

 

How do you know that we are not taking a QB at 8?

As there are many, many(most?) posters who believe that there is a good chance we take a QB at 8(particularly if Geno is still available).....it makes no sense to write what you did.....where you assumed that there is somehow a vast consensus agreement or blatantly obvious logic that we will not be drafting a QB at 8.

 

.....If i legitimately believed we would be taking a quarterback at 8 it definitely would have been listed.

 

"The ONE position we should not take at 8"

 

If you believe we shouldn't take a QB at 8......why state there is only ONE position that you believe we should not take at 8(that being OL)?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Dibs

[Cheddar's Dad]

How do you know that we are not taking a QB at 8?

As there are many, many(most?) posters who believe that there is a good chance we take a QB at 8(particularly if Geno is still available).....it makes no sense to write what you did.....where you assumed that there is somehow a vast consensus agreement or blatantly obvious logic that we will not be drafting a QB at 8.

 

 

 

"The ONE position we should not take at 8"

 

If you believe we shouldn't take a QB at 8......why state there is only ONE position that you believe we should not take at 8(that being OL)?

 

You're obviously suffering from that WE MUST GET A QB AT 8 fever. Take a Tylenol and enough booze to help you sleep through April 25. You'll be OK.

[Dibs]

You're obviously suffering from that WE MUST GET A QB AT 8 fever. Take a Tylenol and enough booze to help you sleep through April 25. You'll be OK.

 

No....I just like people to make some sort of logical sense when they start threads.

 

I would love it if there is a QB worth getting at #8.....wouldn't you?

 

I would also love it if there are other 1st round QB talents......and we either trade down from #8.....or trade up into the 1st from #41 to grab one.....wouldn't you?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Dibs

[Dopey]

Watch the scramble this year for Warmack and Cooper. Cookie Cutter draft thinking = poor drafting.

 

One more thing about Levitre; it is said that he was a good pass blocker but at barely 300 lbs, actually more like 295, he didn't get much of a push. This could be another reason why the team let him go. Buffalo faces a strong middle Patriot D twice a year. We need athletic guards with brute strength that can move that D and beating the Patriots should be the Team's first objective on it's way to the SB.

One thing I want to add is that the conventional thinking of not picking a guard or NT # 8 is the cost of a top 10 pick. Since the new rookie scale is in place, not even the #1 pick is gauranteed 52 million anymore. A top 10 pick is way more affordable than a few years ago. You are not in salary cap hell anymore with a top 10 pick. So, if your top rated player is Womack or Cooper I'm fine with that. Remembering how much Hutchison(sp) helped Seattle's back(can't remember his name) break 2k yds makes me wonder how Spiller would do with a monster at guard who can get good push. From center to lt, we would have Wood,Womack/Cooper, and Glen. Pretty damn stout if you ask me.

[Cheddar's Dad]

I would love it if there is a QB worth getting at #8.....wouldn't you?

 

I would also love it if there are other 1st round QB talents......and we either trade down from #8.....or trade up into the 1st from #41 to grab one.....wouldn't you?

 

Absolutely; I would love it. But I don't live in a fantasy world and I believe what everyone says about there being no first round quality QBs in this draft. I also have a concern that if the available QBs are not first round quality, picking one there is like reaching for an apple into a bushel of rotten apples. Once you see the apple, you're most likely to throw it away. So why not get a player at another position that is rated an early first rounder? Wouldn't that be the intellectually logical thing to do?

[Dibs]

Absolutely; I would love it. But I don't live in a fantasy world and I believe what everyone says about there being no first round quality QBs in this draft. I also have a concern that if the available QBs are not first round quality, picking one there is like reaching for an apple into a bushel of rotten apples. Once you see the apple, you're most likely to throw it away. So why not get a player at another position that is rated an early first rounder? Wouldn't that be the intellectually logical thing to do?

 

Why make rash assumptions about me(and I have noticed others as well)?

If there aren't any 1st round quality QBs in this draft.....of course I don't want us to pick a QB just for the hell of it.

 

Who is this "everyone" you talk about?

From everything I have seen, there is likely between 2 and 4 QBs who show enough to be selected in the top 36 picks. Nearly every analyst has at least one QB rated as a 1st round talent.

 

Everyone?

Maybe link me 3 and I'll consider changing my view.......which btw is that if there are good QBs to be had in the 1st, then we need to draft one of them.

[KOKBILLS]

Absolutely; I would love it. But I don't live in a fantasy world and I believe what everyone says about there being no first round quality QBs in this draft. I also have a concern that if the available QBs are not first round quality, picking one there is like reaching for an apple into a bushel of rotten apples. Once you see the apple, you're most likely to throw it away. So why not get a player at another position that is rated an early first rounder? Wouldn't that be the intellectually logical thing to do?

 

What? Who's saying that?

[Orton's Arm]

I think it made a lot of sense. I understood it completely. Additionally; the reason Buffalo will not take a QB at 8 is that there are no QB's in this draft worth being selected that high. This in spite of the fact that QB may arguably be our position of greatest need. To put it another way; if you have a hunger for a ripe jucy apple, you don't go out and pick one from a bushel of rotten apples, unless of course, you enjoy being sick. Sick is exactly what many Bills fans we become if we pick one of those bozos at 8.

 

One disclaimer; I am not a physician.

 

What are your thoughts on Barkley? From what I've read, he has the accuracy and intangibles you'd want. Where he's lacking is arm strength. I can live with that. The main reason Joe Montana lasted until the third round was because he didn't have the world's strongest arm. Tom Brady doesn't exactly have a rocket launcher attacked to his shoulder. My sense is that Barkley's level of arm strength is a lot closer to the level of those two guys than it would be to, say, Holcomb's arm strength. The million dollar question is obviously whether Barkley's accuracy and intangibles compare to Montana's or Brady's.

[Malazan]

What about kicked and punter?

[djp14150]

What are your thoughts on Barkley? From what I've read, he has the accuracy and intangibles you'd want. Where he's lacking is arm strength. I can live with that. The main reason Joe Montana lasted until the third round was because he didn't have the world's strongest arm.

 

In buffalo the winds are a factor. Barkley will fail in Buffalo.

[KOKBILLS]

I think all of the positions you listed are just as likely to be allowed to walk as a guard is.

 

The players who you KEEP when they pan out are QB's, DE's(or in a 3-4 a premier pass rusher like DeMarcus Ware) and LT's.

 

Those are the blue chips of NFL position players.

 

CB's and WR's are the other two premium positions, but they remain perimeter players and "outside-in" is still not how you build a team.

 

The Bills have a LT in Cordy Glenn. They badly need an edge rusher from the RDE.......but by far their biggest need is QB.

 

The draft shouldn't be about filling needs.....it should be about getting the best value to your franchise......these are your long term investments.

 

But when that need is QB......using that top pick on a QB fills both need and best value to your franchise......because a QB is really the only individual player who can have a significant impact on the future of an organization.

 

So you guys can talk all you want about getting the next Marcel Dareus or Stephon Gilmore but if you don't have a quarterback you don't even really know what else you need.

 

Thank you...Perfectly said...

[Cheddar's Dad]

Who is this "everyone" you talk about?

From everything I have seen, there is likely between 2 and 4 QBs who show enough to be selected in the top 36 picks. Nearly every analyst has at least one QB rated as a 1st round talent.

 

Everyone?

Maybe link me 3 and I'll consider changing my view.......which btw is that if there are good QBs to be had in the 1st, then we need to draft one of them.

 

I agree that there will likely be several QBs selected in the first two rounds. That's because there are several teams desparate for a QB. That doesn't mean those QBs are worthy of being selected that high. It only means that desparation won out over clear headed thinking.

 

Who are they that say there are no 1st. rd. quality QBs in this draft? Charlie Caserly, Ron Jaws (don't ask me to spell his name), Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Jeremy whatshisname from the NFL Network's "Path to the Draft" to name a few. Caserly says he doesn't know if any of this year's QBs will be in the league in five years. But all agree that several QBs will be selected in the first two rounds this year. Why is that? Simply because the need and desire for that QB is such with some teams are willing to select a QB rated as the 50th best player on their board with the 2nd, or 6th or 12th overall selection. I don't want Buffalo to be one of those teams.

 

Most experts rate Geno Smith as the best QB in this year's draft but when you look at their writeups, one of his weaknesses is said to be lack of pocket awareness. If you saw the Pinstripe Bowl last December, you saw him get sacked in the endzone twice for safeties which, to me, supports their analysis. He could not feel the pocket collapsing around him. Additionally, he does not anticipate well and too often locks onto his primary receiver. Yet some think he could be taken at #2 by Jacksonville. Incredible.

 

Then there's Ryan Nassib. Many have him going to Buffalo with Buffalo selecting someone else at 8 but moving back into the last part of Rd 1 to get him. He is said to have a strong arm but all of his throws are bullets. He doesn't know how to put touch on his short to intermediate throws and lacks accuracy on his long throws. But there are people who think he'll be selected in the first round. Incredible.

 

E.J. Manuel? Great athlete. Mayock has him as the 2nd best QB this year. Just watch him. Below average QB. In spite of his team having a winning record, he as a QB had no consistent performances. I watched many of his games hoping and praying there would be some good QBs available this year. Just didn't see it.

 

Barkley? Jaws said yeaterday that he's the 6th best QB in this draft. Average arm, inaccurate long throws.

 

I could continue with the other bozos in this draft but you get the idea.

 

This is what Buffalo needs to do. We need to ignore our biggest need and get the best talent in our other positions of need cause it ain't there at the QB position this year. Next year is substantially better for QBs. Buffalo needs to be patient and get that QB next year. Who knows, Build a solid O-line around Kolb and maybe that desperate need for a QB will slowly go away.

[Dibs]

I agree that there will likely be several QBs selected in the first two rounds. That's because there are several teams desparate for a QB. That doesn't mean those QBs are worthy of being selected that high. It only means that desparation won out over clear headed thinking.

......

 

When I used the words...."who show enough to be selected".....I actually meant QBs who are worthy of being selected that high, not QBs who would normally be the 45th pick(or similar) and sneak into the top 36 through desperation.

 

 

....

Who are they that say there are no 1st. rd. quality QBs in this draft? Charlie Caserly, Ron Jaws (don't ask me to spell his name), Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Jeremy whatshisname from the NFL Network's "Path to the Draft" to name a few. Caserly says he doesn't know if any of this year's QBs will be in the league in five years. But all agree that several QBs will be selected in the first two rounds this year. Why is that? Simply because the need and desire for that QB is such with some teams are willing to select a QB rated as the 50th best player on their board with the 2nd, or 6th or 12th overall selection. I don't want Buffalo to be one of those teams.

 

Ron Jaws:

"I think he'll be a solid starter in the NFL".....his 1st rated QB.

"I think he'll be a good pro".....his 4th rated QB.

 

Mel Kiper:

"You have a first round quarterback in Geno Smith. I've said all along he's 20 to 32."

 

Greg Cosell:

"Cosell isn't alone in his high regard for Nassib. The National Football Post's Russ Lande, recently hired as college scouting director for the CFL's Montreal Alouettes, has Nassib rated as the No. 1 player regardless of position on his draft board."

 

Scouts Inc:

2 QBs actually graded in the top 32 player.....as we know QBs are typically selected higher than their actual grading, they have 4 who likely will be selected in the top 36.

 

SI.com:

QBs rated 1, 20, 35 & 39

 

DraftTek:

QBs rated 7 & 30.....and 37 & 42

 

I can't be bothered looking for more....this shows that some of the experts who you claim back your view, actually don't......and certainly shows that not "everybody" believes as you do(most don't from the looks of things).

 

Your position that there are no QBs who are legitimate 1st round talents is somewhat tenuous considering what the "experts" are saying.....and for you to dogmatically put this opinion across as if it was instead a fact.....and therefore totally discount any different opinion as somehow idiotic is quite annoying.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Dibs

[BADOLBILZ]

I agree with 95% of what you've written. If there's a QB that you think can be The Guy, you take him. You don't worry about whether there's some non-QB with a slightly higher grade, or if there's a gaping hole at LG or LB or wherever. Get the QB while the getting is good, and worry about the other stuff later in the draft, or in free agency. If after the dust settles you still have a hole or two, you can deal with the holes next year. If the QB turns out to be The Guy, you'll have a good ten year window with which to surround him with the high quality supporting cast necessary to achieve a Super Bowl win. If you don't get The Guy, there will be no window and no Super Bowl win.

 

But if there isn't a QB with The Guy potential available at 8th overall, then you start looking to fill other premium positions. That explicitly rules out taking an interior OL, non-pass-rushing LB, or RB. It also should rule out taking any kind of safety, unless the safety is truly an elite coverage talent--the kind of guy who can more or less shut down Gronkowski in one-on-one coverage. But it would be exceedingly rare for it to make sense to take a safety that early; and when in doubt it's best to err on the side of not taking the safety so early. The absolute last thing this team needs is another Whitner!

 

Regardless of who the Bills select with the 8th overall pick, the plan has to be to hold onto him if he meets or exceeds expectations. Traditionally, the Bills have allowed their DBs with the best combination of youth + proven accomplishment to go first contract and out. Unless they change that pattern, every first round pick used on a DB will be at least partially wasted; even if the player himself has an outstanding career. Antoine Winfield, for example, would have been a great use of a first round pick, if the Bills had held onto him throughout his career. As it was, the Bills got only a few years out of him before he waved goodbye.

 

It's been a few years since I watched any college ball. But based on the reports I've read, Barkley is the QB most likely to meet the Bills' needs.

 

Barkley is the QB I would take at #8. He's not the most physically gifted in this class, not by a long shot. But he has the mind and intangibles of an elite QB and on the field he makes it look pretty easy. He does have below average NFL arm strength so there is the potential that he won't translate into a top NFL QB. He rarely threw the deep out's at USC. But his arm is not bad like a Chad Pennington(although Pennington took average teams to the playoffs on multiple occasions). He may actually have less distance than Fitz but Barkley is accurate from every distance he can reach. He can complete passes of 50+ yards in the air with decent accuracy. Fitz throwing the ball 30 yards was like watching a 13 year old in the punt pass and kick competition.......there was no telling where it would come down. Barkley is accurate from the pocket, he is accurate on the run. The constant in the rest of this class is inconsistency on the easy throws and that is not the case with Barkley. He isn't an RG3 or Luck but I think he is also the most likely QB in this class to be able to come in and take a team with a decent roster to the playoffs as a rookie.

 

If the Bills don't take him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall out of round 1 but that really doesn't matter. When it comes to QB's it's not about getting "round value". If they are good enough to be drafted in the first few rounds, then you must consider them a potential starter.......and if you consider them a potential starter they had better be a potentially very good, otherwise what is the point? If they are a potentially very good QB and they are the best on your board and you need a QB then round 1 is the time to do it. As I have stated many times, the Bills could have taken a QB with their first pick in the last 13 drafts and be no worse off than they are now......and this year is just year 14. Dee Milliner isn't going to win you any SB's with Kevin Kolb at QB.

[Cheddar's Dad]

idiotic is quite annoying.

 

Look. This is an avenue where people express opinions. There is no need to be insulting. You give the impression I'm communicating with a 12 year old.

[Dibs]

Look. This is an avenue where people express opinions. There is no need to be insulting. You give the impression I'm communicating with a 12 year old.

 

LOL....really?

 

You surely were aware of what you were quoting there.

 

"idiotic is quite annoying."

 

Taking something out of context doesn't really work if it is printed 2 posts above above.

 

 

The actual quote was....

 

".....and for you to dogmatically put this opinion across as if it was instead a fact.....and therefore totally discount any different opinion as somehow idiotic is quite annoying."

 

I was saying that it was you who was treating others opinions as "somehow idiotic".

Edited April 12, 2013 by Dibs

[NickelCity]

This thread is a gem.

[Orton's Arm]

Barkley is the QB I would take at #8. He's not the most physically gifted in this class, not by a long shot. But he has the mind and intangibles of an elite QB and on the field he makes it look pretty easy. He does have below average NFL arm strength so there is the potential that he won't translate into a top NFL QB. He rarely threw the deep out's at USC. But his arm is not bad like a Chad Pennington(although Pennington took average teams to the playoffs on multiple occasions). He may actually have less distance than Fitz but Barkley is accurate from every distance he can reach. He can complete passes of 50+ yards in the air with decent accuracy. Fitz throwing the ball 30 yards was like watching a 13 year old in the punt pass and kick competition.......there was no telling where it would come down. Barkley is accurate from the pocket, he is accurate on the run. The constant in the rest of this class is inconsistency on the easy throws and that is not the case with Barkley. He isn't an RG3 or Luck but I think he is also the most likely QB in this class to be able to come in and take a team with a decent roster to the playoffs as a rookie.

 

If the Bills don't take him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall out of round 1 but that really doesn't matter. When it comes to QB's it's not about getting "round value". If they are good enough to be drafted in the first few rounds, then you must consider them a potential starter.......and if you consider them a potential starter they had better be a potentially very good, otherwise what is the point? If they are a potentially very good QB and they are the best on your board and you need a QB then round 1 is the time to do it. As I have stated many times, the Bills could have taken a QB with their first pick in the last 13 drafts and be no worse off than they are now......and this year is just year 14. Dee Milliner isn't going to win you any SB's with Kevin Kolb at QB.

 

Good post.

 

I agree with what you've written, including the importance of getting the QB you want without worrying about whether you're taking him "too early." If you take a guy like Barkley at 8th overall, and if he becomes a stronger armed Chad Pennington, you've gotten excellent value out of the pick.