#34fan Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 What you gain in arm strength doesn't surpass fitz football brain. A case for why "Football Brains" should not be confused with actual talent. Fitz is adequate in a transition year on a team that will be hard pressed to finish .500. Fitz has only proved adequate at hoodwinking old men out of MILLIONS. Again, I don't know what you could be looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 there is no such thing as a FA sleeper QB. You either are good enough or you are not. Good enough for what though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I can understand why you'd think he was done... I'm just saying "not so fast" DG's last year starting in the league he threw 23 TD's and rushed for five. He's never thrown more that 15 INT's in a season. -Fitz can have that many by November. This is a guy who won the starting job in 2007 over a seemingly entrenched Byron Leftwich. That same year he went 11-5 and made to the playoffs. Last season (at 34) he went to MIA and won the job over a talented rookie and yet ANOTHER entrenched starter. So, I'm not sure what your observations are based on... Are we talking about the same Dave Garrard? He was not entrenched as the starter in miami. He was injured most of the preseason during the qb competition. Dolphins saw enough in tannehill and knew what they had in moore. Dolphins decided he wasn't an upgrade over either and cut before the season. Any team is free to sign him. No team has. No team considers him a starter. He's looked at as a backup only. As fpr the Bills. It would make absolutely no flippin sense for the bills to cut fitz, take a 10m cap hit, additionally add $5m to the cap to rent a damahed goods qb past his prime for one season and then have him injured. Especially considering fitz has never missed a game due to injury and is physically whole. And, if the defense had even been ranked in the 16-20 range and a rb that could hold onto the football on the goal line, the Bills would have won 10 games had fitz not consistently been put in catch up situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The 2 guys we have under contract are better than anyone available!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Can't really argue with OP. Either of these guys could bring something to a team under the right circumstances. In our case though, I don't think its worth it. We're stuck with Fitz's cap hit whether we cut him or not. May as well hang on to Fitz since he's at least as talented as either of the two QB's mentioned. Fitz is a solid back-up for us as well. We are going to draft and start a rookie as I see it. Hopefully an effective one. If he gets hurt, we've got a pretty darn good back-up in Fitz to hold the fort. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Reality. Garrard is done. He ain't gonna give you any more than fitz even if he was healthy and 30. What you gain in arm strength doesn't surpass fitz football brain. Fitz is adequate in a transition year on a team that will be hard pressed to finish .500. I like Fitz. I wish he'd taken that extra step from 2011 instead of regressing as he did in 2012. I'm chill with saying Fitz is adequate, we want to keep him and not chase guys who've been out of football - are you chill that then we'll be chowing down another $10 million cap hit in 2014? Me, not so much. When Garrard was healthy and 29, he was leading a 9-3 team to the playoffs and setting an NFL record for lowest interception percentage. When Fitz was healthy and 29, he was leading the NFL in INTs that year. So I'm not quite sure the basis for your conclusion "he ain't gonna give you any more than Fitz". Riddle me this: if Garrard has less football brain than Fitz, how come he managed to throw so many fewer interceptions whilst racking up similar passing yards? Edited March 10, 2013 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 He was not entrenched as the starter in miami. He was injured most of the preseason during the qb competition. Dolphins saw enough in tannehill and knew what they had in moore. Dolphins decided he wasn't an upgrade over either and cut before the season. When i said "entrenched starter" I was referring to Moore. The job was Moore's to lose, and he did just that. Any team is free to sign him. No team has. No team considers him a starter. He's looked at as a backup only. -That's what MIA thought too, until he wowed the S__t out of them! A 34 year old journeyman shouldn't be able to pull a young buck's card like that. As fpr the Bills. It would make absolutely no flippin sense for the bills to cut fitz, take a 10m cap hit, additionally add $5m to the cap to rent a damahed goods qb past his prime for one season and then have him injured. Especially considering fitz has never missed a game due to injury and is physically whole. And, if the defense had even been ranked in the 16-20 range and a rb that could hold onto the football on the goal line, the Bills would have won 10 games had fitz not consistently been put in catch up situations. Disagree.. If he get's us to the playoffs, while grooming a young (scrub) QB, It'd be worth it. Tha't JMO.. I watched Jax games quite a bit, and noticed how tough Garrard used to play the Colts. -He's still a competitor, and just the type of stopgap leader a team like ours could use. -Might even teach OC Hackett a few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Can't really argue with OP. Either of these guys could bring something to a team under the right circumstances. In our case though, I don't think its worth it. We're stuck with Fitz's cap hit whether we cut him or not. May as well hang on to Fitz since he's at least as talented as either of the two QB's mentioned. Fitz is a solid back-up for us as well. We are going to draft and start a rookie as I see it. Hopefully an effective one. If he gets hurt, we've got a pretty darn good back-up in Fitz to hold the fort. jb Thing is jb, if we keep Fitz we're stuck with the cap hit NEXT YEAR as well. If we cut him, it's one-and-done, no 2014 cap hit lingering like the stench of a dead woodchuck under the porch. NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and Garrard and Wallace have been out of football. Otherwise, Fitz at least as talented as Garrard? Um, no. History says otherwise, as does the "eyeball test". I hear you on drafting the rookie, though I think it depends who he is and how ready he is, whether or not he should start. I think we need Plan B. He was not entrenched as the starter in miami. He was injured most of the preseason during the qb competition. Dolphins saw enough in tannehill and knew what they had in moore. Dolphins decided he wasn't an upgrade over either and cut before the season. Er, were you privy to the discussion in the Miami FO or something? Garrard was injured through training camp. He decided to have surgery hours before the preseason game he was scheduled to start. Very few teams are going to keep a newly-signed injured vet QB on the roster along with the rookie they just drafted and a healthy vet. It's really a stretch to interpret that as "he wasn't an upgrade over either". Injuries are career killers in the NFL unless you're Payton Manning. I don't think it would make sense to sign Garrard for $5 million either. Part of the premise of the OP was that because these guys have been out of football Garrard is not going to command the same salary as Moore or (likely) Campbell. Edited March 10, 2013 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Can't really argue with OP. Either of these guys could bring something to a team under the right circumstances. In our case though, I don't think its worth it. We're stuck with Fitz's cap hit whether we cut him or not. May as well hang on to Fitz since he's at least as talented as either of the two QB's mentioned. Fitz is a solid back-up for us as well. We are going to draft and start a rookie as I see it. Hopefully an effective one. If he gets hurt, we've got a pretty darn good back-up in Fitz to hold the fort. jb Wait a minute, how long was I blacked-out? I must've missed one of the past 3 seasons 'cause I don't remember a time when Fitz has EVER held ANY fort.. In fact, I recall him GIVING UP the fort a few times just last year! Please don't tell me we're doing this again... Please don't tell me you guys are willing to take back the same SKANK hoping she's going to change.... Fitz is absolutely NO GOOD at QB. -He never has been. Any faith you may have in Fitzchumstick is quite literally BLIND. I'm not going down this road anymore. -Get well soon, guys. Edited March 10, 2013 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Not that desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotpockets28 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 FA QBs suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan since '64 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 JP is available, if you're looking for washed up qb free agents. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 JP is available, if you're looking for washed up qb free agents. Just sayin' Topic of this thread is "QB who has proven he can "get the job done" in the NFL, but may be a bit "off the radar" as a FA (ie due to being out of NFL?) and might be relatively inexpensive. JP qualifies on the "out of NFL and might be relatively inexpensive" part. Would you care to construct an argument that he has "proven he can get the job done in the NFL"? I wouldn't myself - another "~equal TDs and INTs" guy with ~ 59% completions overall and inconsistent; statue-like mobility; etc - we'd be better off with TJax or Fitz IMO - but don't let that stop you. Please proceed if you wish to attempt a cogent argument in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirty Year Fan Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Garrard & Wallace? How are either an upgrade over fitz? There's absolutely no benefit. Why chase a FA qb at all? It's a waste of money and cap space as well as senseless. Fitz is staying put for at least this season, unless a clearly (clearly) better (better) option is available for a lot (a lot) less money... which right now DOES NOT EXIST!!! Great post agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thing is jb, if we keep Fitz we're stuck with the cap hit NEXT YEAR as well. If we cut him, it's one-and-done, no 2014 cap hit lingering like the stench of a dead woodchuck under the porch. NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and Garrard and Wallace have been out of football. Otherwise, Fitz at least as talented as Garrard? Um, no. History says otherwise, as does the "eyeball test". I hear you on drafting the rookie, though I think it depends who he is and how ready he is, whether or not he should start. I think we need Plan B. Fair enough. I was not aware of the 2014 cap hit you mention. Do you know how much the 2014 cap hit on Fitz would be ? It does present a bit of a problem I was not aware of. Thanx. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 i would rather bring in cambell This. Jason Campbell would be a good addition. I think he's better than either Fitz or Tarvaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I would rather the Bills draft 3 rookie QB's and let them compete for the starting job in mini-camp, camp, and preseason. Three QB's with unknown ceilings, versus a free agent QB that is unsigned by 32 NFL clubs for a reason. Come on guys, Garrard? Campbell? Seneca Wallace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Fair enough. I was not aware of the 2014 cap hit you mention. Do you know how much the 2014 cap hit on Fitz would be ? It does present a bit of a problem I was not aware of. Thanx. jb Per this site (which seems to have straight gouge), Fitz counts $10.55 million against the cap in 2014, $7 million dead money (2014 cap hit if we cut him) What I don't know is when the 2014 cap hit enters into it - if he's on the roster March 13th? If he's on the 53 man cutdown roster? If he plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I can understand why you'd think he was done... I'm just saying "not so fast" DG's last year starting in the league he threw 23 TD's and rushed for five. He's never thrown more that 15 INT's in a season. -Fitz can have that many by November. Fitz's last year he threw 24 TD's and 16 Int's - DG threw 23 TD's and 15 Int's. DG played 2 less games so maybe his totals get better maybe they get worse, who knows? I do know based on his average he doesn't throw as many yards. Saying that Garrard's numbers are way better than Fit'z especially in the int catagory are just false. We get that you hate Fitz, hell most of us do too, but rying to trump up a bad QB like Garrard to exacerbate your hatred frankly makes you look silly. Edited March 10, 2013 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I was tossing and turning all night thinking about this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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