NoSaint Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) The leaked panthers financial documents are getting a live chat with Rodney fort on deadspin - in the comments section of the link. Just an FYI for those curious about the business side. some good content, some nonsense (it is deadspin, so we learn rodney can kick 35 yards). as another small market team crying hardship its interesting. you can ask questions if you want (and hurry up). http://deadspin.com/5989435/what-can-you-learn-from-the-carolina-panthers-leaked-financials-ask-a-sports-economist Edited March 8, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Read this earlier. It should come as no surprise to anyone who looks at the annual Forbes NFL valuation reports. Although it seems Forbes is grossly underestimating profits for these teams. They had the Panthers at only 42 million over the past 2 years. I can imagine how much Ralph is really taking in (Forbes: 70 million the past 2 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Without revenue sharing, they would have run a $14 million operating loss in 2012. In 2011, the only way they made an operating profit was by keeping the payroll $25 million under the salary cap. The small market teams are dependent on league revenue sharing, which is why Jerry Jones and his peers B word about teams like the Panthers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Since when is Charlotte a small market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Since when is Charlotte a small market? I wouldnt call it a huge market either. it must fall middle of the pack at best, almost certainly below average size for the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Without revenue sharing, they would have run a $14 million operating loss in 2012. In 2011, the only way they made an operating profit was by keeping the payroll $25 million under the salary cap. The small market teams are dependent on league revenue sharing, which is why Jerry Jones and his peers B word about teams like the Panthers... Well, revenue sharing has been around for a very long time. And any owner is free to not spend to the cap (and take profits instead). Why point this out? The current TV deal is essentially equal to the cap right now (120 million a year). The Jerry Jones's B word when small market owners are always bitching about how hard it is to make a dollar in this league----when those teams reap the full value of the TV contracts (which are not impacted at all by the existence of the Carolina Panthers, and others) and don't spend the cap. That is what what is being discussed here, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorom Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Well, revenue sharing has been around for a very long time. And any owner is free to not spend to the cap (and take profits instead). Why point this out? The current TV deal is essentially equal to the cap right now (120 million a year). The Jerry Jones's B word when small market owners are always bitching about how hard it is to make a dollar in this league----when those teams reap the full value of the TV contracts (which are not impacted at all by the existence of the Carolina Panthers, and others) and don't spend the cap. That is what what is being discussed here, by the way. actually teams must spend to within something like 90% of the cap starting this year I do believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 The leaked panthers financial documents are getting a live chat with Rodney fort on deadspin - in the comments section of the link. Just an FYI for those curious about the business side. some good content, some nonsense (it is deadspin, so we learn rodney can kick 35 yards). as another small market team crying hardship its interesting. you can ask questions if you want (and hurry up). http://deadspin.com/...ports-economist I'm all for a contraction in the league. 32 Teams is crazy. Def not enough talent to support it. It's tough out there. I'd say get rid to the Panthers and Jaguars. Draft all there players among the 30 existing teams. The Bigs Cats just can't cut it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I found a list of the largest cities in the US. Charlotte was #19 and only 12 of the cities bigger than it had NFL teams, including NY which had two. It was city population and not the 'greater metro area' but it ranked above Boston and DC FWIW PS: I think the failure of teams like the Panthers and Jags is that they are too late the the party. The people in those cities either had a favorite team before they existed or are stransplants from up north and they aren't going to start rooting for a new team. Houston and Balt had teams and lost them so thats a different scenario. Edited March 8, 2013 by peterpan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Ok so bottom line He lied. He has been lying to the fans and he lied to the NFLPA. I think this is going to get much more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I found a list of the largest cities in the US. Charlotte was #19 and only 12 of the cities bigger than it had NFL teams, including NY which had two. It was city population and not the 'greater metro area' but it ranked above Boston and DC FWIW Well, the fact that Charlotte ranked above Boston and DC demonstrates that the list you are looking at only considers the population within the city limits, which is pretty much irrelevant for purposes of determining the size of an NFL market. I am quite familiar with all three of those places and the Charlotte area is much, much smaller than both the DC and Boston metro areas. The only NFL metro areas I can think of that are smaller than Charlotte would be Green Bay, Jacksonville, Nashville and maybe KC, New Orleans and Buffalo. Cincinnati might be close, too but it is only an hour from Louisville and two hours from Columbus, as well as other sizable cities in Ohio. Edited March 8, 2013 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I found a list of the largest cities in the US. Charlotte was #19 and only 12 of the cities bigger than it had NFL teams, including NY which had two. It was city population and not the 'greater metro area' but it ranked above Boston and DC FWIW PS: I think the failure of teams like the Panthers and Jags is that they are too late the the party. The people in those cities either had a favorite team before they existed or are stransplants from up north and they aren't going to start rooting for a new team. Houston and Balt had teams and lost them so thats a different scenario. Old list - but this puts it squarely in the 20s for tv market size (NY and SF having 2 teams) http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037/ Edited March 8, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I found a list of the largest cities in the US. Charlotte was #19 and only 12 of the cities bigger than it had NFL teams, including NY which had two. Per the Census Bureau, Charlotte is the 33rd largest U.S. metro area, based on 2011 population (1.8 million). http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/index.html Only six NFL teams have smaller markets--Indianapolis, Nashville, Green Bay, Jacksonville, New Orleans and Buffalo (although Buffalo's true size is masked by the Canadian border). Edited March 8, 2013 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Per the Census Bureau, Charlotte is the 33rd largest U.S. metro area, based on 2011 population (1.8 million). http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/index.html Only six NFL teams have smaller markets--Indianapolis, Nashville, Green Bay, Jacksonville and Buffalo (although Buffalo's true size is masked by the Canadian border). sounds about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Without revenue sharing, they would have run a $14 million operating loss in 2012. In 2011, the only way they made an operating profit was by keeping the payroll $25 million under the salary cap. The small market teams are dependent on league revenue sharing, which is why Jerry Jones and his peers B word about teams like the Panthers... Revenue sharing is what makes the NFL relevant as a national sport. If Jones, Synder & Kraft succeed in killing revenue sharing, it will kill the NFL. That said, since revenue sharing does exist - along with a reasonable salary cap, there is little reason for the small market teams to complain. It's simply not a valid excuse for poorly run teams like Carolina, Jax and Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Ok The size means nothing, the team flat out raked it in and lied about how bad off it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I found a list of the largest cities in the US. Charlotte was #19 and only 12 of the cities bigger than it had NFL teams, including NY which had two. It was city population and not the 'greater metro area' but it ranked above Boston and DC FWIW PS: I think the failure of teams like the Panthers and Jags is that they are too late the the party. The people in those cities either had a favorite team before they existed or are stransplants from up north and they aren't going to start rooting for a new team. Houston and Balt had teams and lost them so thats a different scenario. The metro area of Charlotte is pretty large, too, when you include 80-90 minute drives from Greensboro and Winston, an hour drive from Columbia, SC, and even folks in Raleigh that are two and a half hours away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think the failure of teams like the Panthers and Jags is that they are too late to the party. The people in those cities either had a favorite team before they existed or are transplants from up north and they aren't going to start rooting for a new team. Houston and Balt had teams and lost them so thats a different scenario. I think the reason you state is valid and is also exacerbated by the fact that these teams are located in prime college football territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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