The new staff and franchise QB

[RogerNapalm]

Am I the only one who gets what being a QB from USC means? Rob Johnson anyone? Mark Sanchez? Any takers?

[Billsrhody]

Watching that highlight video vs the Nassib video in another thread, Barkley is much more impressive I think. He fits the ball into very tight windows and makes a ton of throws down field. He also seems very efficient near the redzone, causing lots of pass interference by putting balls in places on his WR can go and get them.

 

Barkley certainly hasnt gotten worse every year.. he regressed a little bit from last year in terms of completion percentage and INTs. But his yards per attempt were way up which is a very good thing.

 

If I have to choose between Barkley and Nassib.. I'm taking Barkley. One of these USC QBs is bound to pan out.

[RogerNapalm]

One of these USC QBs is bound to pan out.

 

[Dr. Trooth]

like I said before... I think THE FRANCHISE goes Barkley with our #1 pick (meaning all the people who have say in our pick that did not work for Syracuse last year), 2nd round we go full Nix and take the best defensive SEC and Marrone gets Nassib with our 3rd round pick as their grooming project...

 

Mark this down... somewhere where you can see it every day. There is zero, no, make that negative 1 gazilion chance that the Bills will select Matt Barkely at all. If he were there in the 7th round, they'd pass on him for a div III punt catcher. I'm 200 percent confident of that. There is a better chance the Bills would draft Charles or Gnarls Barkely before they'd draft Matt Barkely.

 

[sjjr]

Barkley has started since his freshman year in high school and has been a winner everywhere. For that reason, he will most likely start for some NFL team next season. He seems to be a strong leader, can read defenses and is accurate. The question would be arm strength, especially in Buffalo.

 

Not sure if he fits Buffalo, but he might be the most ready to play QB in the draft, especially for a west coast type offense.

 

I get the USC thing, but he comes from a different offense than Leinart, Palmer and Sanchez for instance. He also is very different in what he does well than them, especially a guy like Rob Johnson.

[Saratoga Leo]

I get the USC thing also even though many people can't. When the qb's from a school are 0 for 10 or so there is a concern.

One thing bothers me about Barkley - he had what many would consider the best wide receivers in college. Didn't seem to help him.

[Dr. Trooth]

Barkley has started since his freshman year in high school and has been a winner everywhere.

 

Geez... reads like the beginning of the bio of every USC QB.... just change the name. USC QBs are surrounded by some of the best players in the country.... yet, when it's time for the rubber to meet the road... they inherently suck in the pros.

 

Mark Sanchez, Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, Sean Salisbury, Rodney Peete, Pat Haden, Matt Cassel, Bill Nelsen, Pete Beathard, Vince Evans, Paul McDonald, Todd Marinovich, Rob Johnson, John David Booty, and now Matt Barkely. They all just suck.

[Rob's House]

I get the USC thing also even though many people can't. When the qb's from a school are 0 for 10 or so there is a concern.

One thing bothers me about Barkley - he had what many would consider the best wide receivers in college. Didn't seem to help him.

Great receivers, but possibly the worst O-Line of any major college football program.

[buffaloboyinATL]

like I said before... I think THE FRANCHISE goes Barkley with our #1 pick (meaning all the people who have say in our pick that did not work for Syracuse last year), 2nd round we go full Nix and take the best defensive SEC and Marrone gets Nassib with our 3rd round pick as their grooming project...

I say we reverse it. SEC linebacker with first pick, Nassib or best available QB with second. And then, hopefully another LB in third.

[Iowabillsfan4life]

I say we reverse it. SEC linebacker with first pick, Nassib or best available QB with second. And then, hopefully another LB in third.

 

 

I like that! What about the best WR in the first and nassib in the second. ?

 

LaRon Landry might sign with us and maybe a free agent LB

Edited January 11, 2013 by Iowabillsfan4life

[Punch]

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

scout talk "Ryan Nassib = Ryan Fitzpatrick, worst kept secret in the #NFLDraft the #bills want him" some think he WILL NOT make it to 2nd rd

 

Retweeted by Buffalo Bills Draft

 

Cecil Lammey ‏@cecillammey

If Nassib is on the #bills wish list then they'll have to trade back into the late 1st to snare him, too high to take at 8 IMHO #NFLDraft

 

Retweeted by Buffalo Bills Draft

 

Buffalo Bills Draft ‏@BillsDraft

Those are tweets from @cecillammey who is at the Shrine Game and is very well connected. Not good news if you’re a #Bills fan imo.

[OldTimer1960]

That's the first I've heard of this. Besides, IMHO, I'd put money on them NOT taking Barkley. We have plenty of other needs to fill at #8 with other QB's available in later rounds, including Nassib.

 

There is a reasonably good chance that there are zero future NFL starting QBs in this draft. I don't understand the "just wait until later in the draft, there are plenty of future star QBs available".

 

Here is a look at the QBs from drafts 1999-2012. Yes, there are a couple of great years, but most times you are lucky to find 1-2 good starting QBs in an entire draft:

 

 

1999: 1 good starting QB (D. McNabb), 4 first round wash-outs (Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown), 1 bad 2nd round pick: Shaun King

 

2000: 1 miraculous 6th pick (Tom Brady) 1 decent starting QB in round 1(Chad Pennington), 1 OK starter from 6th round (Marc Bulger)

 

2001: 1 tremendous pick (Drew Brees 2nd), 1 troubled good starter (Michael Vick), 2 2nd round washouts(Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo)

 

2002: 1 decent starter (4th round pick David Garrard), 3 1st round misses (David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey)

 

2003: 1 good starter (1st Carson Palmer), 3 first round misses (Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman)

 

2004: Great year (E Manning, P Rivers, B Roethlisberger), Matt Schaub (3rd), missed on JP Losman (1st)

 

2005: Great pick (A Rodgers), OK starter (Alex Smith), miss: Jason Campbell

 

2006: 1 OK starter (Jay Cutler), 2 1st round misses (Vince Young, Matt Leinart), 2 2nd round misses (Kellen Clemens, Tarvaris Jackson)

 

2007: 0 good starters, 2 1st round busts (Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn), 3 2nd round picks (Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton)

 

2008: 2 quality starters (Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco), 2 2nd round misses (Brian Brohm, Chad Henne)

 

2009: 2 good starters (Matt Stafford, Josh Freeman), 1 looks like a bust (Mark Sanchez), 2nd round miss (Pat White)

 

2010: 1 good starter (Sam Bradford), 1 1st miss (Tebow), 1 2nd miss (Jimmy Clausen)

 

A little early to tell on some of the following:

 

2011: Cam Newton looks very good, Jake Locker (jury is out), Blaine Gabbert (on his last chance), Christian Ponder (jury is out),

Andy Dalton (looks good, but weak playoff game), Colin Kaepernick (looks great so far)

 

2012: Luck, Griffin and WIlson look great so far, jury is out on Tannehill and Weeden

[sjjr]

To draft a QB in the first round, the team needs to believe that the guy will be a franchise QB that can play right away. The only QB that appears to be able to play right away would be Barkley. The others seem to be guys that need to be developed. It's going to be hard to take a QB in the 1st round of this draft.

[Punch]

Here is a look at the QBs from drafts 1999-2012. Yes, there are a couple of great years, but most times you are lucky to find 1-2 good starting QBs in an entire draft:

 

It's a good list and an interesting read, but one thing to take into consideration before making declarations about which QBs were "good" or "bad" is the situation in which they were drafted.

 

Tim Couch very possibly could have been a perennial All-Pro if drafted by a more stable franchise with talent in place around him. Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees as a Buffalo Bill could have likely gone the way of JP Losman and/or Trent Edwards.

 

The question is, how do you feel about the Bills current situation in regards to coaching, talent evaluation and roster? If the Bills rated well, then drafting a QB like Nassib/Glennon/Dysert/Whomever late in the 1st or in the 2nd might work out better than it did to take Losman in the 1st in 2004.

[Mark80]

Geez... reads like the beginning of the bio of every USC QB.... just change the name. USC QBs are surrounded by some of the best players in the country.... yet, when it's time for the rubber to meet the road... they inherently suck in the pros.

 

Mark Sanchez, Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, Sean Salisbury, Rodney Peete, Pat Haden, Matt Cassel, Bill Nelsen, Pete Beathard, Vince Evans, Paul McDonald, Todd Marinovich, Rob Johnson, John David Booty, and now Matt Barkely. They all just suck.

 

Carson was well on his way to having a very nice NFL career until he got injured in 2008.

[OldTimer1960]

It's a good list and an interesting read, but one thing to take into consideration before making declarations about which QBs were "good" or "bad" is the situation in which they were drafted.

 

Tim Couch very possibly could have been a perennial All-Pro if drafted by a more stable franchise with talent in place around him. Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees as a Buffalo Bill could have likely gone the way of JP Losman and/or Trent Edwards.

 

The question is, how do you feel about the Bills current situation in regards to coaching, talent evaluation and roster? If the Bills rated well, then drafting a QB like Nassib/Glennon/Dysert/Whomever late in the 1st or in the 2nd might work out better than it did to take Losman in the 1st in 2004.

 

Interesting point. I am sure that the the situation, coaching and talent level that a QB is drafted into has to have some effect on the success of the QB. I would guess, though, that the potential is more that an otherwise good QB could be messed up by a bad situation/coaching rather than that a not-so-good QB could succeed wildly because of coaching/talent around him. I don't mean to say that it is black and white, but that would be my guess.

 

To Buffalo's situation:

Positives: Provided that they can resign Levitre and Wood is healthy, I think the OL is a positive. The RB situation looks very strong. If Pettine can get what I think is a talented D to play well, that can be a big positive. All of these can lighten the load on a young QB (none of which Losman had the luxury of having).

 

Negatives: I would say that the Bills' WRs/TEs are in the bottom 25% of the league, especially with Campbell facing a long recovery from knee surgery. A very young/inexperienced OC may struggle, particularly with helping a rookie QB learn about the NFL. A fan-base starving for success and the rare success of some recent QB draft classes may lead to a tremendous amount of pressure on a young QB to succeed immediately. In spike of some recent examples to the contrary, it still usually takes young QBs years to grow into the job in the NFL.

 

Overall, I think it is about a neutral/slightly positive situation for a young QB. If I thought that there was a potential good starting QB in the draft, I wouldn't let the Bills' current situation deter them from picking one. I don't really know, but I don't *think* the QB prospects are very good this year. I guess, I'd prefer to see them go after a veteran guy that can start indefinitely while they look for a really good young QB prospect over the next 2-3 years. My preferred option would be Alex Smith, depending on the cost to get him. After that, Matt Flynn at least showed something but the body of work is really limited. I can't think of many other good options unless Tennessee let Matt Hasselbeck go and he still wanted to play.

 

Beyond those guys, I think you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel, but with the apparent dearth of good rookie prospects that might be what they are stuck with.

 

Regardless, I think that they need to at least take a shot at a QB somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds of the draft. However, I think (from what I've read) that this year is more a "swing and hope" rather than "choose your future start QB".

Edited January 15, 2013 by OldTimer1960

[Punch]

Regardless, I think that they need to at least take a shot at a QB somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds of the draft. However, I think (from what I've read) that this year is more a "swing and hope" rather than "choose your future start QB".

 

Your post is an excellent assessment of the situation, and I don't think there's anything I could add to it aside from agreeing with this last sentiment. The Seahwks decided to "swing and hope" repeatedly for a QB until they connected with Russell Wilson: Tarvaris Jackson, Charlie Whitehurst, Matt Flynn, et al will only be remembered in Seattle as the answer to a trivia question if they're remembered at all. Even if none of the 2013 Draft QB prospects are "the guy", the Bills need to keep swinging until they hit the sweet spot.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Punch

[KeisterHollow]

Please disclose where you heard this, because I've been reading just about everything out there and haven't heard a peep of "West Coast offense."

 

I actually read that about the west coast offense, too. I don't know if it was speculation on the part of some writers, but I specifically remember that being written, the west coast offense with a little bit more down field throwing. So, we'll see - but, I have to think whatever offense we do run, it won't be specifically one style or another, but a mix of styles that caters to our players and the defenses we play.

 

Nevertheless, when I read that Barkley also came to mind. I have real reservations about west coast QB's - not because they cannot make a transition to cold weather teams, but because the ones we've picked have not made that transition. I also don't like reading that Barkley has a weak arm, and is not as physically talented as the other guys in this draft, but gets by on his intelligence. I'm not good enough at evaluating players to say one way or the other - but, he does have the 4 years of experience which Nix likes, and he has been successful. I'd have to guess that Tom Brady had all kinds of knocks on him coming out of college - probably similar knocks as Barkley has - otherwise he would have been drafted sooner. So, we'll have to wait and see.

[Punch]

I actually read that about the west coast offense, too.

 

I can certainly imagine some elements of a west coast style offense being used, but I haven't read/heard anything along these lines. Is it possible that a writer or two confused Nathaniel Hackett with his father Paul, who is pretty strongly associated with the WCO?

[OldTimer1960]

I actually read that about the west coast offense, too. I don't know if it was speculation on the part of some writers, but I specifically remember that being written, the west coast offense with a little bit more down field throwing. So, we'll see - but, I have to think whatever offense we do run, it won't be specifically one style or another, but a mix of styles that caters to our players and the defenses we play.

 

Nevertheless, when I read that Barkley also came to mind. I have real reservations about west coast QB's - not because they cannot make a transition to cold weather teams, but because the ones we've picked have not made that transition. I also don't like reading that Barkley has a weak arm, and is not as physically talented as the other guys in this draft, but gets by on his intelligence. I'm not good enough at evaluating players to say one way or the other - but, he does have the 4 years of experience which Nix likes, and he has been successful. I'd have to guess that Tom Brady had all kinds of knocks on him coming out of college - probably similar knocks as Barkley has - otherwise he would have been drafted sooner. So, we'll have to wait and see.

 

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady and Joe Montana are/were all super-star QBs who don't possess world-beating physical qualities (to be sure, better than good enough but not "great"). What Manning, Brady and Brees have is the smarts, work-ethic, leadership and natural ability to quickly process what they see. They augment that with a strong-enough arm and excellent accuracy.

 

 

John Elway and Steve Young had top physical tools (arm strength, size, speed), but many of the "best" don't.

 

I think it is difficult to draft QBs because those things that make Manning, Brees, Brady and Montana special are hard to measure/quantify. In particular, the ability to quickly process and react to what they see is rarely even called upon for many college QBs who play on teams whose talent far exceeds that of their opposition (eg USC), because they have "all day" in the pocket and their receivers are so good that they are usually throwing to guys that are open by 5 yards rather than the 5 inches that they'll have to deal with in the NFL.

Edited January 15, 2013 by OldTimer1960