mountainwampus Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 To the esteemed poster above, I disagree about Choice. IMO, everything about the guy is mediocre. He's a jack of all trades and proficient at none. He's not quick, not fast, not a good runner or receiver or blocker, doesn't have power and does not have one redeemable skill. Or as we used to say about some players, "he's small but he's slow." He used to be pretty good all-around. that's what Chan remembers. That's why he's here. Chan needs to face reality, that his friend is no longer good enough to be an NFL running back. Even as a back-up. Johnny White was a great option, but the Packers ganked him. A new back-up RB is desperately needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 CMac has been here for almost 4 years. You'd think they would know by now if he was capable of doing this. I've seen Dickerson run the ball once - a miserably failed H-Back hand off that was basically an end-around. Then find someone. But it doesn't have to be a high draft pick or an expensive free agent. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 CMac has been here for almost 4 years. You'd think they would know by now if he was capable of doing this. I've seen Dickerson run the ball once - a miserably failed H-Back hand off that was basically an end-around. Youd think that right??? Unfortunately, Chan Gailey is one of the biggest idiots in coaching I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 To the esteemed poster above, I disagree about Choice. IMO, everything about the guy is mediocre. He's a jack of all trades and proficient at none. Isn't that a reasonable expectation for a #3 back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Isn't that a reasonable expectation for a #3 back? It is but I'd rather have a guy who also has an actual strength or core competency than someone who is well-rounded in a mediocre way. There are teams in the NFL who have a arsenal of backs. I'm underwhelmed by our #3 running back and reject the notion that a #3 back is automatically a mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Then find someone. But it doesn't have to be a high draft pick or an expensive free agent. That's the point. I dunno - if they were so easy to find, every team would have one. I believe there's way more to it than just having a 260 pound guy run as fast as he can into the pile. Our M.O. seems to be hoping we can coach up some middle-of-the-road players and we're not often all that successful at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) To emphasize my point a little more. No, we do not need Fridge Perry, and that's not what I want. We do not need to throw the ball up the gut and hope it gets down the line. With our coaching staff being what it is then we must all agree that it is a coaching design which disables our 3rd and shorts. Our coaching staff may not have much faith in our short game, but I am sure we practice more with Wildcat and spend more times with Choice then most teams do with their Wildcat or 3rd RB. A 3rd RB on most teams is not active on game day. However, Choice is pretty much our 2nd RB and therefore a jack of all trades is not necessary, especially when FJ has all the tools Choice does except they're just better! When we have an all purpose carrier in FJ and a dynamic, play making RB in CJ we do not need a middle of the road RB that we have in Choice. We need to pick up a cheap FA (not Hillis) or a 6th rounder to tote the ball up the middle. Every snap he is in would be huge, even if it is just 4 snaps a game. A viable option, a true threat on 3rd and short would be priceless. It saves hits on CJ and FJ and that is important, because we do not need to wear their tread down and this guy could be one who fills FJ's shoes down the line. He could be much like LenDale White was for Chris Johnson. I would love for Brad Smith to be a 3rd down threat but there is no surprise when Smith has the ball. Put 7 guys in the box, press coverage on the WR's and the play is neutralized. He was a 1st down getting machine until teams realized we will not successfully pass out of this formation. This may become my dead horse. http://forums.twobil...20#entry2631181 Having thought about it since the Jets game, after you were one of a few who mentioned it, I thought it needed a thread of its own Edited November 16, 2012 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I dunno - if they were so easy to find, every team would have one. I believe there's way more to it than just having a 260 pound guy run as fast as he can into the pile. Our M.O. seems to be hoping we can coach up some middle-of-the-road players and we're not often all that successful at it. Cheap free agent veteran? Cedric Benson signed for one year and $825,000 which is the veteran minimum for a guy with his experience. Ask an NFL GM whether they would rather pay a guy like Benson the minimum or a guy like Michael Turner $5 million. When Benson became a free agent I thought it was a great opportunity for the Bills to add something that they lacked. A low draft pick? How about Georgia Tech back (how ironic?). The Steelers of course got Jerome Bettis clone Jonathan Dwyer in the 6th round of the 2010 draft. Dwyer is an excellent violent power back. The reason the Bills don't have a guy like this is because they weren't looking for one, IMO. That type of player is not a part of Gailey's offensive universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrules Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Can Corey Mac or Dickerson do that? Yes why not use Mac in those situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 To the esteemed poster above, I disagree about Choice. IMO, everything about the guy is mediocre. He's a jack of all trades and proficient at none. He's not quick, not fast, not a good runner or receiver or blocker, doesn't have power and does not have one redeemable skill. Or as we used to say about some players, "he's small but he's slow." Perhaps, we're just viewing it from different perspectives. I meant he's not a huge liability in running, catching, or blocking. He's not a superstar, but how many teams have a superstar as their 3rd back, honestly? Where I would say he doesn't have an outstanding set of skills, you indicate he hasn't got one redeemable skill. He's a good teammate and he knows his role. At 59th in the NFL, he's adequate; and, that is his skill. (The Saints #3 back is at 53 by comparison.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Wait I'm missing something. Fred Jackson will be healthy soon and he's one of the best short yardage backs in the game. I agree that Choice is very mediocre but we're ten games in here fellas. No way will they make any changes on offense unless someone goes on IR. If you mean off season picking up a back to challenge Choice like Johnny White did this year I'm all for it, but this isn't a vanilla offense we run and at this point there is no way Chan will change it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Perhaps, we're just viewing it from different perspectives. I meant he's not a huge liability in running, catching, or blocking. He's not a superstar, but how many teams have a superstar as their 3rd back, honestly? Where I would say he doesn't have an outstanding set of skills, you indicate he hasn't got one redeemable skill. He's a good teammate and he knows his role. At 59th in the NFL, he's adequate; and, that is his skill. (The Saints #3 back is at 53 by comparison.) What ranking? And who are you counting as the saints 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 What ranking? And who are you counting as the saints 3? The one on http://www.nfl.com. Edit: The Steelers have the best trio of backs statistically at 24, 34, and 39. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 What dreamers on here. We are not going to pick up a Earl Campbell or John Riggins off the waiver wire. In the mean time why does the couching staff think we can run up the middle when it fails time after time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The one on http://www.nfl.com. Edit: The Steelers have the best trio of backs statistically at 24, 34, and 39. Is it by yardage? I assume? If so, The saints splitting carries 4 ways, and being a pass heavy offense certainly effects that. As would injuries and such. Poor way to rank depth, in my opinion - but I'm not positive what your sorting by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 What dreamers on here. We are not going to pick up a Earl Campbell or John Riggins off the waiver wire. In the mean time why does the couching staff think we can run up the middle when it fails time after time? John Riggins super bowl run against the fish. An all time classic. Probably lynchs playoff run in Seattle is as close as it gets. We had him. He would have been the guy. Traded for a 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Is it by yardage? I assume? If so, The saints splitting carries 4 ways, and being a pass heavy offense certainly effects that. As would injuries and such. Poor way to rank depth, in my opinion - but I'm not positive what your sorting by. I'm not going to debate the stats. I don't really care. My point was that he's OK as a 3rd back. Sure, he's no world beater and not going to blow back an entire NFL defense. (I was agreeing with Simon that it isn't just the back, the O-line doesn't blow people off the ball.) The point being, the Bills have other problems more worthy of wringing one's hands in fret over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 John Riggins super bowl run against the fish. An all time classic. Probably lynchs playoff run in Seattle is as close as it gets. We had him. He would have been the guy. Traded for a 4th. Did not even think about Lynch...but imagine, Lynch, Spiller and Fred Jackson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) I'm not going to debate the stats. I don't really care. My point was that he's OK as a 3rd back. Sure, he's no world beater and not going to blow back an entire NFL defense. (I was agreeing with Simon that it isn't just the back, the O-line doesn't blow people off the ball.) The point being, the Bills have other problems more worthy of wringing one's hands in fret over. I agree he is - but sorting by yardage is awful for 3rd backs. Their touches are so different. Some get goal line, some 3rd and long, some are workhorses due to injury. Yardage rankings for depth backs are deceiving. Choice would be behind Ingram, ivory, sproles, Thomas, and probably cadet in New Orleans. But with choice getting heavy carries a few times, of course he has more yards. Choice is good enough, but ultimately I think a change of pace might be better than a fill in as close as possible in case of injury style back up This isn't an immediate need, but not a crazy mention in the long term either. Edited November 17, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 John Riggins super bowl run against the fish. An all time classic. Probably lynchs playoff run in Seattle is as close as it gets. We had him. He would have been the guy. Traded for a 4th. Lynch's time in Buffalo was over. Probably he wanted it that way. Now how much we got in return for him? That's a different conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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