reddogblitz Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 BTW, are you sure we won two games 9-6 in 1999? I don't think that's the case. But regardless, there's a difference between when an offense is not scoring and when an offense is not scoring AND is turning the ball over. I looked. Actually it was 1997 with the great Todd Collins at QB. How was that D able to hold up with a QB only getting them 3 FGs? The only game that we didn't score a lot on offense was the 49ers. Is there another game you are talking about? Against the Jets we did score 28 points and racked up 390 yards of total offense. Sure Fitz messed up big time, but if our D could have stopped them some and our Punt Return team not given up a TD, we could have maybe gotten back in that one. And of course 14 point lead against the Patsies has kindof shot that one out of the water too. And we won the other 3. Sorry, just not buying it. Defensive woes go only on one place, the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Hopeful, you know I love you and agree with you 99% of the time but would you entertain that the poor play of the QB might have some detrimental effect on the defense? p.s.- regardless of whether it should or not? I was talking more generally and not so much with regards to specific parts of games. My point is more that if a team has zero or near zero confidence in the QB, that it would have a negative effect on the entire team, defense included. Also as you undoubtedly noted, I did say that this shouldn't be the case, but I feel that it sometimes is. Like I said, I don't think piss poor quarterbacking should affect a defense but I believe it sometimes can. But regardless, there's a difference between when an offense is not scoring and when an offense is not scoring AND is turning the ball over. Is there another game you are talking about? Sorry, just not buying it. Defensive woes go only on one place, the defense. Let me try making this clear again. I'm not talking about any specific game. I'm saying that poor quarterback play can demoralize an entire team, including the defense. Am I understanding correctly that you are saying that poor quarterback play has zero effect on the defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Am I understanding correctly that you are saying that poor quarterback play has zero effect on the defense? That's what I'm saying. If there are any players on our team that disagree with me they should be shown the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 That's what I'm saying. If there are any players on our team that disagree with me they should be shown the door. And that's where we disagree. I agree that lousy quarterbacking shouldn't effect an entire team but I believe that it occasionally does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 And that's where we disagree. I agree that lousy quarterbacking shouldn't effect an entire team but I believe that it occasionally does. I agree with both of you! I think it does happen, but it needs to be rooted out and expunged. Championship caliber players don't spend their time worrying about what the other guy is doing. Hell, if the D really gets down because Fitz is stinking it up, I'd rather see them get in his face and have some yelling going on. Getting dispirited and letting it affect your play is a loser attitude that I can't imagine coming from a player on Baltimore's or Pittsburgh's or San Francisco's D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzShowUsYourTitz Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 problem is we dont have a Franchise QB on the roster. Um this ^^^. I don't think anyone here or at OBD think we have a Franchise QB. We all need to put down the torches and realize that it's probably pretty obvious to Nix, Ralph and Chan that we don't have a Franchise QB. That's not really the question. The question is: Who is out there that is better?? Probably will be determined in the next year (or two). But let's keep the mob in check for a little while. With that said....why this Franchise gives these Huge contracts after great starts to a season (see: Fitz, Kelsay) I have no idea. Now as I say let's put the torches away, I fully expect to be flamed as well. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 With that said....why this Franchise gives these Huge contracts after great starts to a season (see: Fitz, Kelsay) I have no idea. Go Bills! The Dick Jauron extension was the worst one for a few reasons. It was also a bizarre chapter in Bills history as the team kept it a secret during a mid-season slide which saw them lose 7 of 8 games. It was almost like they were waiting for the right moment to announce it (after a big victory) and that moment never arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Hopeful, you know I love you and agree with you 99% of the time but would you entertain that the poor play of the QB might have some detrimental effect on the defense? p.s.- regardless of whether it should or not? Poor qb play will almost always effect the defense. So btw will poor offensive line play. All one needs to do is look back upon the Bruce Smith - Bryce Paup - Big Ted Bills. The OL was SOOO bad that they just couldn't sustain drives. Luckily, Fitz doesn't have this problem, whereas the OL is better than average imo. No matter how good a defense is, you can't constantly give them poor field position, 3 and outs, and turnovers, and expect them to play to their potential. The defense mentioned above would sometimes get tired at the end of games from staying on the field too long. The Bills need to run the ball more than most teams to win games. Sadly, Fitz is one of those reasons. Against the Cards, did you see them converting 3rd down plays in the first half? The wildcat was working well too before the stupid pass. This game will tell us quite a bit. There is no excuse to let Tenn. beat us at home. They can stack up and the run and make Hasselbeck beat them. They can blitz at opportune times. And, they need to kick ass up front in terms of running the football. If Fitz can limit his mistakes ( a BIG if), this team could sneak into the playoffs. Of course, we will need some luck as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) I'd go farther and say Fitz negatively effected our losing games - even on the defensive side. A defense has to believe if they go out there and shut down a team, get a 3 and out, that the offense is going to take advantage of the stop, go and put some points up, give the defense a little rest, and also an edge, in the form of a lead. However, when a defense plays well, and the offense goes out and turns it over, or goes 3 and out, it negates what the defense did. Sure, some great defenses carried a team in the past, but I believe our players aren't nearly there yet, and if our offense isn't scoring, it demoralizes the defense. This can in no way be proven, of course, but I think had we had a much better QB, our defense would have played better, too - it wouldn't have been on the field for so long, and it would have had something to play for. We all saw the game - the Jets, the 49ers, the Patriots last half - our defense KNEW even if they stopped the opposition, our offense wasn't going to score. That is on Fitzpatrick, Gailey, and Nix - Fitzpatrick is so awful the offense has to play to his only strengths, which good defenses can take away. On Gailey and Nix, well, they should have known better. I will say, though, that given the right coaching and a good young QB, this team looks like its right on the cusp of being a serious team for quite a while. The future isn't lost - only our hopes as long as Fitz is the active QB. Well said and youre 100% right. At some point everyone will wear out, mentally and physically. And beyond that people lose incentives to perform when they know the payoff isnt there. People saying "well their pros blah blah blah" have no clue. They're people before pros and everyone has a limit. I even recall ray lewis biatching at ravens offense a few years ago for costing them games, saying the D can only be asked to so so much. Edited October 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Um this ^^^. I don't think anyone here or at OBD think we have a Franchise QB. We all need to put down the torches and realize that it's probably pretty obvious to Nix, Ralph and Chan that we don't have a Franchise QB. That's not really the question. The question is: Who is out there that is better?? Probably will be determined in the next year (or two). But let's keep the mob in check for a little while. With that said....why this Franchise gives these Huge contracts after great starts to a season (see: Fitz, Kelsay) I have no idea. Now as I say let's put the torches away, I fully expect to be flamed as well. Go Bills! I think they pull the trigger on extending coaches and players at the magical 5 wins before mid season start because they're cheap (and no Im not a chronic "Ralph's cheap" poster). They figure if these guys are the real deal and they become free agents then they have to pay full market to keep them. So by paying 2/3rds market for marquee players/coaches they end up with 3rd off discount if everything goes right. I think its fear of paying the full market that makes them gloss over the other side of the coin which is overpaying if the guy flops. But still they've done their projections and know they can stomach it even in these worst case situations. Edited October 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Hopeful, you know I love you and agree with you 99% of the time but would you entertain that the poor play of the QB might have some detrimental effect on the defense? p.s.- regardless of whether it should or not? Couldn't someone argue - by your same rational - that the defenses poor performance effects the offense? If Fitz sees that the D can't stop anybody he starts pressing and trying to force throws because he knows they have to score a lot of points because the D sucks. It's a cyclical argument. Sure the O and D effect each other but that's just making excuses for one or the other. The bottom line is the D has been horrendous and Fitz has been erratic. I'm not going to make excuses for either, they should both be held accountable because they have both been major factors in the Bills struggles this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 We should activate T-Jack now for the TN game so if Fitz is struggling early we can put T-Jack in to get an idea of what we have and work on any T-Jack issues during the by week. If Wanny sucks again then it could be his Bye week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Couldn't someone argue - by your same rational - that the defenses poor performance effects the offense? If Fitz sees that the D can't stop anybody he starts pressing and trying to force throws because he knows they have to score a lot of points because the D sucks. It's a cyclical argument. Sure the O and D effect each other but that's just making excuses for one or the other. The bottom line is the D has been horrendous and Fitz has been erratic. I'm not going to make excuses for either, they should both be held accountable because they have both been major factors in the Bills struggles this year. Yes. Bad defense can have a negative effect on an offense. It's a team game and everything is interrelated both from a strategic and a morale standpoint, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since 1972 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 We could start a thread about cheese dips and it would turn into fitz sucks Of course it would. Out of the first five post you have two saying, "Fitz sucks". Or is this a case of, if you say it first it takes the sting out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I believe next yr in the draft we should do everything possible to upgrade the QB position. Listen every draft is a risk. We gambled on CJ . I say we won on that one. I say we gambled the Gilmore will be an pretty good CB. So far so good. We gambled on Dareus even to be great. Time will tell on him . If we go and get us a franchise QB, someone that can play right now like Geno Smith of W.Virginia it will make the D even better. Because number one if you have a QB the can move those chains and get first downs it keeps the D fresh. Secondly if your Defense believes in its QB to score even when behind a score or 2 they wont get panic as much when we get behind. The might have in the back of their minds, hey we just got scored on but our QB will get the score right back. Do you think the Packers get scarred when they are down a couple of scores?? Nope because they have faith in Rodgers to bring them back. Do you believe Fitz can lead us back after being down by 10 or 14 points? He is too wild in his passes to even think that. So yes to jump in on the convo about the QB having an effect on the Defense...for sure it does. If there is an offseason to gamble some draft picks on a Franchise QB it would be this one. I like our Offensive line, RB's WR's. The only thing on D we are missing is some better LB's. Buddy doesn't like to trade those draft picks but I dont think he has any other option to upgrade the QB position. Until we get a Franchise QB we gonna be 7-9, 8-8 every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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