Arguing over fake football

[HOUSE]

There are a number of important events that fall between the Super Bowl and the opening week of the next NFL season. For the record, the Pro Bowl is not one of them.

 

The Draft, free agency, training camp and the day that final cuts are determined are all important dates that are worth paying attention to. There also happens to be these four pesky exhibition games that are blown totally out of proportion by a number of fans and anyone getting a paycheck from a certain production company in Bristol.

 

The NFL preseason is becoming an annual chore that is more about keeping starters healthy than shaping the roster. However, each year your team lays an egg and suddenly 3-13 is on the table. Truthfully, there is far too much attention paid to the outcome and overall performance during preseason, by everyone.

 

Just look at that steaming pile of a morning show that Skip Bayless works on. When they’re not extolling Tim Tebow as football’s savior, they’re drumming up any bit of crap they can get their hands on.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMK9FKMG3Nc

 

 

 

 

 

Most recently Kirk Cousins big night against Chicago’s backups became fodder for a “quarterback controversy” in Washington because RGIII didn’t rack up big numbers behind his patchwork line and against Chicago’s ones. Keeping things closer to home, Buffalo has had two dismal showings in their pair of preseason outings thus far. However, this is due to the participation of over 30 players who will not be on the team come September 9. Now, the starters haven’t been lighting things up, but about 60% of the Bills play thus far has come with a group of players who will not be playing as a unit in three more weeks.

 

For example, Tyler Thigpen is likely out the door as a quarterback with the Bills. Shawne Merriman was just released and other depth players like Cris Hill, Nick Saenz and Derek Session might not even survive the first cut, let alone the final cut. Not to single out those specific players, but it illustrates the point.

 

All 32 teams will be releasing nearly the equivalent of the NFL’s active roster limit for regular season games. Add in the fact that 32 coaches aren’t rolling out their full game plan for these games and there is a beautiful recipe for mistake-riddled football and mediocre performances, particularly from the starters.

 

Take 2011 as an example. The Bills offense looked wretched through their four-game audition before blowing the doors off for the first eight weeks of the season. Prior to injuries taking their toll, the Bills offense turned a full 180 from the football they played in the preseason.

 

While that example isn’t always typical (see Edwards, Trent), the scaled back game plan, presence of back-ups, rookies and fringe players often has a drastic impact on the quality and outcome of these games.

 

Preseason football games to indeed serve a purpose, however. They’re ideal evaluating tools for depth players on an individual basis. These games, while utterly pointless in terms of the final score, provide coaches – and fans if they’re watching closely – the opportunity to see what kind of players they’re dealing with heading into the season.

 

For the Bills, Cordy Glenn and Stephon Gilmore are under the microscope in terms of a starting position while additional position battles for backup quarterback, wide receiver, linebacker and the defensive line roll on. Then there is the usual depth battles for the spots that round out the roster heading into week one.

 

For example, Robert Eddins and Kyle Moore will need strong outings over the next two preseason games to attempt to fill Shawne Merriman’s vacated spot. In addition, Derek Hagan, Ruvell Martin, Naaman Roosevelt and Marcus Easley are all jockeying to fit into either the final two or the lone remaining roster spot reserved for receivers.

 

What all of that says is that there is not an entire unit that needs to be worried about, simply individual pieces. Players like Scott McKillop, Delano Howell and T.J. Graham have all had solid individual performances despite the team not responding with wins. Point being that this is all on an individual level.

 

Now the Bills know that McKilliop is probably a perfect candidate to serve as Kelvin Sheppard’s backup and that T.J. Graham will be capable of producing for them immediately. Regardless of the recent outcome of these games, the team will be able to identify the pieces that will ultimately make them effective once the regular season begins.

 

Even if the third preseason game is a dud, it doesn’t mean much of anything. I don’t care that it is the game that the starters get a ton of playing time simply because I know Chan Gailey isn’t going to open up his playbook until the regular season is up and running. If the first team offense can’t run the ball after three weeks of the regular season, then there will be cause for concern. Until then, sit back, relax and try to pick out a few players who you see as sleepers to make to team or even serve as key contributors down the line.

 

Don’t forget, David Nelson became a primary receiving option for this team during the summer when the starting offense didn’t put the ball in the end zone during preseason play.

 

http://www.buffalowins.com/buffalo-bills/articles/arguing-over-fake-football.html

Edited August 23, 2012 by HOUSE

[DIE HARD 1967]

One of the best posts I have seen all preseason

 

 

that clip on Tebow is hilarious

Edited August 23, 2012 by DIE HARD 1967

[HOUSE]

Bayless is such an ass......geeez

[Alphadawg7]

There are a number of important events that fall between the Super Bowl and the opening week of the next NFL season. For the record, the Pro Bowl is not one of them.

 

The Draft, free agency, training camp and the day that final cuts are determined are all important dates that are worth paying attention to. There also happens to be these four pesky exhibition games that are blown totally out of proportion by a number of fans and anyone getting a paycheck from a certain production company in Bristol.

 

The NFL preseason is becoming an annual chore that is more about keeping starters healthy than shaping the roster. However, each year your team lays an egg and suddenly 3-13 is on the table. Truthfully, there is far too much attention paid to the outcome and overall performance during preseason, by everyone.

 

Just look at that steaming pile of a morning show that Skip Bayless works on. When they’re not extolling Tim Tebow as football’s savior, they’re drumming up any bit of crap they can get their hands on.

 

Didnt quote most of your post only because of length...

 

While I understand where you are coming from, I have to say that while some points are valid, you are fundamentally wrong about whether to care or not about the outcome of preseason.

 

For instance, you are right about media making a big deal out of preseason, but that is also what they are paid to do. They are paid to analyze the on field product and review those games. So while I get they make to big of a deal out of some things, I don't ever see any media person with any real credibility making a big deal out of wins and losses.

 

More importantly, while you call preseason "fake" football, I 100% assure you that the players on that field fighting to make the team, fighting for starting jobs, etc will tell you just the opposite. And so will the coaches and FO personnel.

 

Preseason records are completely meaningless, that is correct. But on field performances are not. They do not create certainty about anything, but they are massively important to talent evaluation, scheme evaluation, situational evaluation, roster decisions, development analysis, chemistry, timing, game plans, etc. Sure, keeping your locked in pro bowlers and starters healthy is always a concern, but at the same time those players need to be game ready come week 1. I do not care how much you train or practice, nothing simulates a game like playing in a game.

 

Another thing people overlook is that even locked in stars, pro bowlers, starters, etc have to often learn new systems and schemes with coaching turnover. Not just HC turnover, but OC, DC, ST, LB, WR, QB, OL, RB, TE, and DB coaches all have an impact on how they will play come week 1. So even when the HC stays the same, you still often have coaching turnover at some of the other spots through firing, promotions, or leave for other jobs. Not to mention player turnover where players need time to play with each other when there are new players to play with.

 

Adding to that, even with no changes to the staff, the playbook constantly evolves and more plays are added, more routes to learn, more assignments to learn, etc. Like this years playbook is substantially more complicated than the one first given out in Chans first year. As the team evolves so does the game plan and play calling.

 

So while you may find idiots like Bayless and his constant nauseating Tebow stuff annoying (and rightfully so), that doesn't devalue the whole preseason which is incredibly important to every team to evaluate everything about the team, create chemistry, timing, etc. When someone like RG3 struggles and another touted prospect shines like Cousins, the media is going to talk about it...thats the nature of the game and what they are paid to do. And to be honest, when you get your first team out there and they struggle to do anything all preseason, there is reason to be concerned. Something isnt clicking...could be rust, could be personnel, could be play calls, etc. Doesn't mean its a sign of things to come, but at the same time you want to see some progression and when you don't it is a concern because you have limited time before the games count to fix what is not working.

 

This isnt MLB or the NBA where one loss isnt that important. With only 16 games, each game is critical, including week 1. There is no time to waste in getting ready for the season opener. The Lakers could lose the first 5 games of the season and not even blink an eye, but if you lose the first 2 games in the NFL you are already in trouble, especially in a tough division.

 

Keeping it close to home...Fitz is a big question mark for how far this team will go this year. And all we have heard is about how much they are working with him on his new mechanics. So far in the preseason, he has been as streaky as always and has yet to really show that next big step forward. Now that does not mean he wont take it, but people who understand how important his development his year is going to be to how far this team goes have concerns when they do not see it translating yet on the field.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[HOUSE]

Didnt quote most of your post only because of length...

 

While I understand where you are coming from, I have to say that while some points are valid, you are fundamentally wrong about whether to care or not about the outcome of preseason.

 

For instance, you are right about media making a big deal out of preseason, but that is also what they are paid to do. They are paid to analyze the on field product and review those games. So while I get they make to big of a deal out of some things, I don't ever see any media person with any real credibility making a big deal out of wins and losses.

 

More importantly, while you call preseason "fake" football, I 100% assure you that the players on that field fighting to make the team, fighting for starting jobs, etc will tell you just the opposite. And so will the coaches and FO personnel.

 

Preseason records are completely meaningless, that is correct. But on field performances are not. They do not create certainty about anything, but they are massively important to talent evaluation, scheme evaluation, situational evaluation, roster decisions, development analysis, chemistry, timing, game plans, etc. Sure, keeping your locked in pro bowlers and starters healthy is always a concern, but at the same time those players need to be game ready come week 1. I do not care how much you train or practice, nothing simulates a game like playing in a game.

 

Another thing people overlook is that even locked in stars, pro bowlers, starters, etc have to often learn new systems and schemes with coaching turnover. Not just HC turnover, but OC, DC, ST, LB, WR, QB, OL, RB, TE, and DB coaches all have an impact on how they will play come week 1. So even when the HC stays the same, you still often have coaching turnover at some of the other spots through firing, promotions, or leave for other jobs. Not to mention player turnover where players need time to play with each other when there are new players to play with.

 

Adding to that, even with no changes to the staff, the playbook constantly evolves and more plays are added, more routes to learn, more assignments to learn, etc. Like this years playbook is substantially more complicated than the one first given out in Chans first year. As the team evolves so does the game plan and play calling.

 

So while you may find idiots like Bayless and his constant nauseating Tebow stuff annoying (and rightfully so), that doesn't devalue the whole preseason which is incredibly important to every team to evaluate everything about the team, create chemistry, timing, etc. When someone like RG3 struggles and another touted prospect shines like Cousins, the media is going to talk about it...thats the nature of the game and what they are paid to do. And to be honest, when you get your first team out there and they struggle to do anything all preseason, there is reason to be concerned. Something isnt clicking...could be rust, could be personnel, could be play calls, etc. Doesn't mean its a sign of things to come, but at the same time you want to see some progression and when you don't it is a concern because you have limited time before the games count to fix what is not working.

 

This isnt MLB or the NBA where one loss isnt that important. With only 16 games, each game is critical, including week 1. There is no time to waste in getting ready for the season opener. The Lakers could lose the first 5 games of the season and not even blink an eye, but if you lose the first 2 games in the NFL you are already in trouble, especially in a tough division.

 

Keeping it close to home...Fitz is a big question mark for how far this team will go this year. And all we have heard is about how much they are working with him on his new mechanics. So far in the preseason, he has been as streaky as always and has yet to really show that next big step forward. Now that does not mean he wont take it, but people who understand how important his development his year is going to be to how far this team goes have concerns when they do not see it translating yet on the field.

 

Very nicely done and I appreciate your response. I am very impressed.Perhaps fake is not the right word but GARBAGE is.

 

Preseason games do not meet the guidelines of true NFL football. True NFL football is about winning games, preseason is NOT! There is no game planning.

 

Charging full price is absurd and the Hype by the media is nothing more then a marketing tool to extract money from your wallet.

Edited August 23, 2012 by HOUSE

[Alphadawg7]

Very nicely done and I appreciate you response. Perhaps fake is not the right word but GARBAGE is.

 

Preseason games do not meet the guidelines of true NFL football. True NFL football is about winning games, preseason is NOT!

 

True NFL football begins September 9/5/2012...so why are you trying to confuse preseason with that? That doesn't make any sense. You seem to think Preseason is being played for your entertainment. Its being played for all the reasons I stated above. You just seem to not be able to separate the two. So, is Training Camp garbage too because its not entertaining you on Sundays?

 

Nothing about the preseason is garbage unless you are tuning hoping to see a good game and be entertained that way. Preseason has nothing to do with wins and losses, but even though you rant about people making a big deal about them, you seem to be caught up in the fact that its garbage because the wins and losses don't matter.

[Doc]

I prefer the term "faux football" myself.

[buffalo1983]

Now who wrote this article is the right question... Looks like there is some Beef because of this..

 

https://twitter.com/2ITB_Buffalo

 

Article: http://twointhebox.com/2012/08/23/arguing-over-fake-football/

[HOUSE]

True NFL football begins September 9/5/2012...so why are you trying to confuse preseason with that? That doesn't make any sense. You seem to think Preseason is being played for your entertainment. Its being played for all the reasons I stated above. You just seem to not be able to separate the two. So, is Training Camp garbage too because its not entertaining you on Sundays?

 

Nothing about the preseason is garbage unless you are tuning hoping to see a good game and be entertained that way. Preseason has nothing to do with wins and losses, but even though you rant about people making a big deal about them, you seem to be caught up in the fact that its garbage because the wins and losses don't matter.

 

The games serve a purpose, I understand that. Evaluating scrubs against scrubs is not worth much.

 

The purpose of the thread, not written by me (See link) was not about the game itself but fans arguing over bull **** .Media hype and how the fans react to loses

Edited August 23, 2012 by HOUSE

[Alphadawg7]

The games serve a purpose, I understand that. Evaluating scrubs against scrubs is not worth much.

 

The purpose of the thread, not written by me (See link) was not about the game itself but fans arguing over bull **** .

 

Evaluating so called scrubs against scrubs is actually quite important. And fans arguing what they see in preseason isnt always BS (although I will agree that a lot of it is). For instance I can sit here and argue why Fitz is still a major concern. Why, because he has not looked any different than he has in his previous years, and that is a concern considering he has not been good enough or consistent enough in the bulk of his games in his career. So while someone wants to argue how great he is going to be, another can also make a case of why they are still concerned because he hasn't shown the growth YET on the field. And until that happens, there is reason for concern. And I say that while full well admitting that I actually have more optimism in Fitz this year than in any other year, but its cautious optimism until he shows me something.

 

And FYI, all these same people will be arguing over the same BS come the regular season too...you only care now because there are no games that matter to distract your attention away from that. But none of this makes the preseason garbage or fake football.

[HOUSE]

Evaluating so called scrubs against scrubs is actually quite important. And fans arguing what they see in preseason isnt always BS (although I will agree that a lot of it is). For instance I can sit here and argue why Fitz is still a major concern. Why, because he has not looked any different than he has in his previous years, and that is a concern considering he has not been good enough or consistent enough in the bulk of his games in his career. So while someone wants to argue how great he is going to be, another can also make a case of why they are still concerned because he hasn't shown the growth YET on the field. And until that happens, there is reason for concern. And I say that while full well admitting that I actually have more optimism in Fitz this year than in any other year, but its cautious optimism until he shows me something.

 

And FYI, all these same people will be arguing over the same BS come the regular season too...you only care now because there are no games that matter to distract your attention away from that. But none of this makes the preseason garbage or fake football.

 

Okay, you win

Edited August 23, 2012 by HOUSE

[Malazan]

More importantly, while you call preseason "fake" football, I 100% assure you that the players on that field fighting to make the team, fighting for starting jobs, etc will tell you just the opposite. And so will the coaches and FO personnel.

 

Preseason records are completely meaningless, that is correct. But on field performances are not. They do not create certainty about anything, but they are massively important to talent evaluation, scheme evaluation, situational evaluation, roster decisions, development analysis, chemistry, timing, game plans, etc. Sure, keeping your locked in pro bowlers and starters healthy is always a concern, but at the same time those players need to be game ready come week 1. I do not care how much you train or practice, nothing simulates a game like playing in a game.

 

That is strange because all coaches and players (not fighting for a roster spot) disagree with you beyond lipservice quotes. Ask Tom Brady how important it is...an offense based around timing and passing...he has 7 pass attempt for 30 yards int he preseason.

 

How many coaches and players would gladly do away with preseason?

Edited August 23, 2012 by jeremy2020

[HOUSE]

That is strange because all coaches and players (not fighting for a roster spot) disagree with you beyond lipservice quotes. Ask Tom Brady how important it is...an offense based around timing and passing...he has 7 pass attempt for 30 yards int he preseason.

 

How many coaches and players would gladly do away with preseason?

 

Go get em Jeremy

[Alphadawg7]

That is strange because all coaches and players (not fighting for a roster spot) disagree with you beyond lipservice quotes. Ask Tom Brady how important it is...an offense based around timing and passing...he has 7 pass attempt for 30 yards int he preseason.

 

How many coaches and players would gladly do away with preseason?

 

Answer = None in terms of coaches, and they have said this. You are delusional if you think coaches would prefer no preseason. Of course players would prefer to get hit less or play less as they make their money in the regular season. But then again, thats only for guys locked into starting spots. The young guys, depth guys, back up guys, guys not likely to make a team unless they prove themselves would never give up preseason as that may be their only shot and cracking the starting lineup or even making the team. There are WAY more guys like that than guys who are set and got a locked spot no matter what.

 

In fact, not only would they not do away with preseason, many are adding ADDITIONAL scrimmages against other teams for even more evaluation. And you sight an exception like a Tom Brady. For every Tom Brady, there are about 150 players that need to be on that field. You are literally sighting a HOF QB who is as good as it gets playing in the SAME system with mostly the same cast of players for a long time. He is an exception, not the norm. That is why a guy like P. Manning is getting more reps than some other premiere QB's...because for the first time since his early years he actually needs to both get back in game shape and adjust to a new system.

 

There are very few players that can take very limited snaps in preseason and be ready for the regular season in comparison to the total number of players in the NFL. Not to mention, there are very few players that are as critical and important to the success of a team like Brady where the risk of injury far out weighs the benefits of extra reps. Some players have an oft injured history so the risk is to great. Their are exceptions, but the reality is that its vastly important for most players, especially ones on new teams or with new coaches implementing new schemes.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Alphadawg7

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The games serve a purpose, I understand that. Evaluating scrubs against scrubs is not worth much.

 

The purpose of the thread, not written by me (See link) was not about the game itself but fans arguing over bull **** .Media hype and how the fans react to loses

 

No argument about the Media hype and how the fans react to losses.

 

The scrubs against scrubs thing has great value to the coaches.

 

Preseason games aren't garbage to fans who understand that the purpose is to allow the coaching staff to pursue certain objectives - which typically do not involve winning the game.

If you try to figure out exactly what they're trying to achieve, it's actually somewhat amusing. If you try to use them as a measuring stick

 

Veteran players understandably hate them because there's a risk of injury taking them off the opening day roster and away from any salary/bonuses tied to that milestone, as well as from a chance to contribute to the team's meaninful (regular season) success, but even vets need some tune-up.

 

Even Tom Brady - he may not need to tune himself, but he needs to sync with his WR when they are trying to get open against guys who aren't on their team

[Drewgetz]

You 2 both have excellent points in your OP's but then got all defensive. I think what both of you are trying to say, to KISS, is that the score of preseason games mean nothing so the outcome means nothing and some of you don't like paying to watch this. While at the same time recognizing that the individual battles really is what makes the preseason "important".

 

Remember: The 90 Bills never won a preseason game and if I remember correctly they lost most of them pretty bad. Postion battles were main focus which why we had the best individual players on the team. Then the coaches get to work to make them a better all around team.

 

You both have good points and are more or less on the same page so let's play nice and continue what started as a very intellectual and well thought out discussion.

[You herd it hear last]

I think it's quite obvious that PS has utility, otherwise every year they'd vote to eliminate it all together and not just shape it like they have been.

 

Now, do I think they should do more imaginative things with the presentation to add to it's entertainment value for us fans? Yes.

 

But I for one, would not want to waste my time watching NFlers have to ramp it up for the 1st 3-4 weeks of the regular season. Plus, what the helk would we do?

[Malazan]

Preseason Win % | Regular Season Win %

 

1.000 | 0.495

0.750+ | 0.508

0.500+ | 0.535

0.400+ | 0.533

0.250+ | 0.442

0.000+ | 0.450

0.000 | 0.473

 

Brian Costello of the NYT:

 

"Marvin Lewis called Rex Ryan before the game to hash over some details, one of which was to request that he not run the Wildcat against him. Ryan obliged his former defensive coordinator from their time in Baltimore,"

 

Marvin lewis takes it seriously. For sure.

 

 

 

------

 

Ed Kilgore: "As for the preseason, coaches and players will tell you the games mean something because, well, they DO keep score after all. But that just isn't all that true. We all know that Marv Levy could have cared less about the pre season during the Bills Super Bowl runs, but once the regular season kicked off, his teams were ready to play."

 

------

 

That's three well respected coaches and numbers telling you that they don't take starters playingin preseason game seriously. Coaches’ primary goals are to have a virtually injury-free, established 53-man roster, discover a few guys, and gain experience and reps.

 

Essentially, for coaches, preseason is the main opportunity to focus on the players by developing talent and teaching the game.