Freddy #5 RB

[poo]

Great example of Buffalo small market = less recognition. Matt Forte in the large Chicago market was on pace for a similar season to freddie, in my opinion they are about equal in terms of skill and possible production.

 

MJD led the league in yardage last year but didn't even get a spot. Fan voting is crazy popularity contest. Amazing that Bills got a spot, an example of the increased exposure that came from signing Mario Williams.

 

Side question: With the growth of Fantasy Football is any team really an unknown among many football fans? Freddie was a top scorer in my fantasy leagues as he was in most until his injury, could this have increased his exposure? Is any team a small market team anymore?

[eball]

MJD and Forte deserve to be ahead of Freddy. Maybe not by much, but i understand the hosts' initial shock.

Maybe the MJD of 3-4 years ago, but not the current version.

 

Forte is a great back, but he was trailing FredEx in total yards before Freddy broke his leg.

[Billsrhody]

Maybe the MJD of 3-4 years ago, but not the current version.

 

Forte is a great back, but he was trailing FredEx in total yards before Freddy broke his leg.

 

I don't get the hate on MJD (not just singling out you eball).. He had the best year of his career last year in terms of yards and ypc. He did all this on one of the worst offensive teams we have ever seen. Did you know that the jaguars were last in the league in passing yards? 136 yards per game! Despite this, MJD managed 4.7 yards per carry.. even though every defensive he played knew he was the only guy to stop.

 

He's still only 27 years old and is an absolute work horse. No offense to Freddy.. but I would trade him for MJD in a heartbeat. This guy is one of the most consistent producers in the league on one of the worst offenses we have ever seen. MJD should be top 3.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Billsrhody

[eball]

I don't get the hate on MJD (not just singling out you eball).. He had the best year of his career last year in terms of yards and ypc. He did all this on one of the worst offensive teams we have ever seen. Did you know that the jaguars were last in the league in passing yards? 136 yards per game! Despite this, MJD managed 4.7 yards per carry.. even though every defensive he played knew he was the only guy to stop.

 

He's still only 27 years old and is an absolute work horse. No offense to Freddy.. but I would trade him for MJD in a heartbeat. This guy is one of the most consistent producers in the league on one of the worst offenses we have ever seen. MJD should be top 3.

Good stats; I'll admit I didn't look anything up when I made my statement -- it was just based on perception. I don't hate MJD at all; just had the perception he wasn't as effective any more. Apparently that was a bad call.

[NoSaint]

I don't get the hate on MJD (not just singling out you eball).. He had the best year of his career last year in terms of yards and ypc. He did all this on one of the worst offensive teams we have ever seen. Did you know that the jaguars were last in the league in passing yards? 136 yards per game! Despite this, MJD managed 4.7 yards per carry.. even though every defensive he played knew he was the only guy to stop.

 

He's still only 27 years old and is an absolute work horse. No offense to Freddy.. but I would trade him for MJD in a heartbeat. This guy is one of the most consistent producers in the league on one of the worst offenses we have ever seen. MJD should be top 3.

thank you for stopping the madness. I know we like freddy but there are a lot of really good backs. its not an insult if he falls more top 10 than top 5 in some peoples rankings.

 

personally i put forte and MJD ahead too. thats not to say freddy is an awful back in comparison.

Edited June 5, 2012 by NoSaint

[You herd it hear last]

Id take Freddy and Forte over Ray Rice, Ray has benefited from a stellar Oline and a run friendly offense, he's a very good, tough runner but if I was going to pick a RB to build an offense around id be hard pressed to pick ray over these guys.

I see a lot of emmitt smith in ray rice if he can stay healthy he's going to be 1 of the good ones... I always tried to talk myself out of liking emmitt and he ran himself right into the record books...

[BillyBaroo]

I don't get why Peterson always has to be #1 - I don't think he is - I hear a lot about how he blows assignments on blocking schemes - that's one reason I always loved Freddy - Thurman for me will always be the gold standard for blocking from the shotgun. He might not have remembered where is helmet was but he always seemed to know where the blitz was coming from.

[Webster Guy]

It's really hard to rank running backs because they do so many things out there.

 

Where does reading and picking up blitzes fall? On some teams pass protection is more important than running ability.

Durability, fumbles, running in space, running with absolutely nowhere to go and minimizing the loss, broken play instincts, knowing down and distance and where the 1st down markers are, ability to break long runs, route running, hands, 4th and short conversions, allowing blocking schemes to develop, etc etc etc

 

The hard part for me is I only see most of the premier running backs on highlights and the occasional prime time game so it's hard to get a sense of how complete a player is. To me, that's how players should be ranked, on completeness.

 

With that in mind, I honestly would take a healthy Fred Jackson over anyone because he seems strong in all areas. Tough, instinctive, smart, experienced, driven, productive.

 

Would love to see what the team criteria are for grading out running backs after the season is over and the position coaches breakdown the film. As Homer Simpson said when that huge donut saved the runaway train " Is there anything they CAN'T do ?"

[poo]

As Homer Simpson said when that huge donut saved the runaway train " Is there anything they CAN'T do ?"

 

It was a monorail!

[NoSaint]

It's really hard to rank running backs because they do so many things out there.

 

Where does reading and picking up blitzes fall? On some teams pass protection is more important than running ability.

Durability, fumbles, running in space, running with absolutely nowhere to go and minimizing the loss, broken play instincts, knowing down and distance and where the 1st down markers are, ability to break long runs, route running, hands, 4th and short conversions, allowing blocking schemes to develop, etc etc etc

 

The hard part for me is I only see most of the premier running backs on highlights and the occasional prime time game so it's hard to get a sense of how complete a player is. To me, that's how players should be ranked, on completeness.

 

With that in mind, I honestly would take a healthy Fred Jackson over anyone because he seems strong in all areas. Tough, instinctive, smart, experienced, driven, productive.

 

Would love to see what the team criteria are for grading out running backs after the season is over and the position coaches breakdown the film. As Homer Simpson said when that huge donut saved the runaway train " Is there anything they CAN'T do ?"

 

I dont think many teams value blocking over running - but i do think they have minimum levels of ability across the board that you have to reach to get snaps.

 

A good all around back is a great thing - but all these guys at the top are pretty well rounded and at some aspects elite. typically when you hear a knock on someone thats in this discussion, its not that hes bad but that its a quality hes just not as good at as other parts of his game which are VERY good.

[Chilly]

No they don't. MJD is power runner but not as good as Fjax at receiving Fjax can do it all MJD not as good with yards after reception.. Forte is a similar type of back, can catch well like Freddy, but not as physical and not as good of a blocker. I will say your right if they are talking about whole careers but I think they mean this year.

 

MJD led the league in rushing with Blaine Gabbert as his QB and Mike Thomas as his #1 WR, and on a team that was always behind in games.

 

Yeah... he deserves to be ahead of Fred Jackson.

Edited June 6, 2012 by BlueFire

[John from Riverside]

As far as I am concerned past Adrian Peterson (and lets be honest....the guy cant stay healthy) the rest of that list is ENTIRELY up for grabs.....I would even go so far as to see Freddie might deserve to be on that list RIGHT AFTER AP

 

Foster? Really? Why? McCoy? RICE?

 

- I should hurt you on this list if you play on a offense with other very good offensive players....this makes it easier for you as it spreads things out more

 

Freddie Jackson has outshined every 1st round pick we have brought in to compete with him.....he blocks....he catches.....he gets the tough yards.....he makes big plays....EVERYTHING thing you look for in a prime back. And prior to last year he has been very durable as well.

 

Shoot....give me a young Freddie Jackson over ANYBODY on that list.

 

MJD led the league in rushing with Blaine Gabbert as his QB and Mike Thomas as his #1 WR, and on a team that was always behind in games.

 

Yeah... he deserves to be ahead of Fred Jackson.

 

So given that logic.....since Freddie was on pace for a monster season and got hurt....and so did Adrian Peterson....then NEITHER should be ahead of MJD.

 

But thats not how we rate it.

[Billsrhody]

As far as I am concerned past Adrian Peterson (and lets be honest....the guy cant stay healthy) the rest of that list is ENTIRELY up for grabs.....I would even go so far as to see Freddie might deserve to be on that list RIGHT AFTER AP

 

Foster? Really? Why? McCoy? RICE?

 

- I should hurt you on this list if you play on a offense with other very good offensive players....this makes it easier for you as it spreads things out more

 

Freddie Jackson has outshined every 1st round pick we have brought in to compete with him.....he blocks....he catches.....he gets the tough yards.....he makes big plays....EVERYTHING thing you look for in a prime back. And prior to last year he has been very durable as well.

 

Shoot....give me a young Freddie Jackson over ANYBODY on that list.

 

 

 

So given that logic.....since Freddie was on pace for a monster season and got hurt....and so did Adrian Peterson....then NEITHER should be ahead of MJD.

 

But thats not how we rate it.

 

Peterson has played 14, 16, 16, 15, and 12 games in the seasons since he's come into the league. Cant stay healthy? Not sure where you're getting that from (maybe college?). Fred Jackson has out shined 1 1st round pick so far, Marshawn Lynch. Its unfair to say that he's out shined Spiller because we dont have a large sample size on him, and the sample size we do have shows that he can be a very good back.

 

If you're asking why to Foster, than obviously you havent seen his stats. In the past 2 years: 2,840 yards rushing, 26 TDs, 4.7 ypc. 119 rec, 1,221 yds, 4 TDs. Good luck finding someone that has outproduced Foster in that same time frame.

 

Mccoy had over 1,600 total yds and 20 Tds last year alone.

 

Rice had over 2,000 total yds and 15 Tds last year alone.

 

Just for reference: Jackson has had over 1,300 total yds and 6 tds in 10 games. Also, you can say "give me a young Freddie over any of them" but the fact is that he is 31.

 

You have to look at track record and the previous year or 2 to determine who the best back in football is. Why don't you try to think of who you would trade Fred for at this point?

 

Peterson

Foster

MJD

Forte

Rice

McCoy

Gore

 

I would probably trade Freddie for everyone on that list except for Gore.

[John from Riverside]

Peterson has played 14, 16, 16, 15, and 12 games in the seasons since he's come into the league. Cant stay healthy? Not sure where you're getting that from (maybe college?). Fred Jackson has out shined 1 1st round pick so far, Marshawn Lynch. Its unfair to say that he's out shined Spiller because we dont have a large sample size on him, and the sample size we do have shows that he can be a very good back.

 

If you're asking why to Foster, than obviously you havent seen his stats. In the past 2 years: 2,840 yards rushing, 26 TDs, 4.7 ypc. 119 rec, 1,221 yds, 4 TDs. Good luck finding someone that has outproduced Foster in that same time frame.

 

Mccoy had over 1,600 total yds and 20 Tds last year alone.

 

Rice had over 2,000 total yds and 15 Tds last year alone.

 

Just for reference: Jackson has had over 1,300 total yds and 6 tds in 10 games. Also, you can say "give me a young Freddie over any of them" but the fact is that he is 31.

 

You have to look at track record and the previous year or 2 to determine who the best back in football is. Why don't you try to think of who you would trade Fred for at this point?

 

Peterson

Foster

MJD

Forte

Rice

McCoy

Gore

 

I would probably trade Freddie for everyone on that list except for Gore.

 

A fair arguement

[Zulu Cthulhu]

A fair arguement

 

Seconded. Look at that - an argument supported by facts instead of blind homerism. What a concept.

[Chilly]

So given that logic.....since Freddie was on pace for a monster season and got hurt....and so did Adrian Peterson....then NEITHER should be ahead of MJD.

 

But thats not how we rate it.

 

Nope, that wasn't my logic at all. My point was MJD did more with less than any other RB this season (and has for a while), which proves just how much of a badass he is. FJax was impressive when healthy, but was in a much better situation. Imagine MJD in the same situation.

Edited June 6, 2012 by BlueFire

[John from Riverside]

Nope, that wasn't my logic at all. My point was MJD did more with less than any other RB this season (and has for a while), which proves just how much of a badass he is. FJax was impressive when healthy, but was in a much better situation. Imagine MJD in the same situation.

 

Blue,

 

I dont know that he was in a MUCH better situation

 

Freddie had his own issues to deal with here

 

- Things were good when people where healthy...but what about when Chandler got hurt....Jones in and out.....using practice squad WR's to man the spots other then Stevie....lets not forget Stevie had the groin thing. The weapons AROUND Freddie when they were healthy we were winning....when they started digging deeper we started losing.

 

- Was there anyone on our Offensive line that didn't miss time? O line health has a lot to do with RB productivity.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Nope, that wasn't my logic at all. My point was MJD did more with less than any other RB this season (and has for a while), which proves just how much of a badass he is. FJax was impressive when healthy, but was in a much better situation. Imagine MJD in the same situation.

 

MJD has been durable as well, even though opposing defenses know he's getting the ball on almost every play. He also caught 43 passes from a god-awful QB last year in addition to winning the rushing title. Give him just a decent QB and he'd easily catch 60-70 passes again, like he did in '08.

[NoSaint]

Blue,

 

I dont know that he was in a MUCH better situation

 

Freddie had his own issues to deal with here

 

- Things were good when people where healthy...but what about when Chandler got hurt....Jones in and out.....using practice squad WR's to man the spots other then Stevie....lets not forget Stevie had the groin thing. The weapons AROUND Freddie when they were healthy we were winning....when they started digging deeper we started losing.

 

- Was there anyone on our Offensive line that didn't miss time? O line health has a lot to do with RB productivity.

 

 

to be fair though, freddie put the bulk of his numbers up when the offense was clicking and healthier. spiller got that tail end disaster primarily, and even so, he looked pretty decent from the backfield. just noting that fred didnt really have to play without wood, or many games with a beat up fitz. and its not like the jags were in a better situation, even with health (though without seeing much, id imagine some guys probably got dinged there too) - id take a beat up fitz over gabbert for example, and fred even got a healthy fitz in one of his hot streaks.

 

MJD put those numbers up through hell and high water on that offense, the whole way.

Edited June 6, 2012 by NoSaint

[Chilly]

Blue,

 

I dont know that he was in a MUCH better situation

 

Freddie had his own issues to deal with here

 

- Things were good when people where healthy...but what about when Chandler got hurt....Jones in and out.....using practice squad WR's to man the spots other then Stevie....lets not forget Stevie had the groin thing. The weapons AROUND Freddie when they were healthy we were winning....when they started digging deeper we started losing.

 

- Was there anyone on our Offensive line that didn't miss time? O line health has a lot to do with RB productivity.

 

Gabbert:

 

0 Games >300 yards passing

3 Games 200-300 yards passing

8 games 100-200 yards passing

4 games < 100 yards passing

 

Fitzpatrick:

 

3 games >300 yards passing

7 games 200-300 yards passing

6 games 100-200 yards passing

0 games < 100 yards passing