Ramius Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised to see a WR or OT go at #10. Or Upshaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised to see a WR or OT go at #10. Or Upshaw. No way Upshaw plays in this Defense, if we draft a WR at 10 besides Blackmon I'll puke :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 seemed like Buddy and Chan dinged both Igram and upshaw for size this weekend . Posturing , who knows. Chan who doesn't have a poker face, seemed to be interested in a left tackle, Rieff falls he might be the guy. Ahmed Brooks is making a lot of sense to me. At least you can start with Brooks and Kelsey at ends and see what the draft brings . Merriman if healthy is going to be a desginated pass rusher . Brockens is very interesting yes he is a tackle but if you notice both New england and the jets when they are in 3/4 line up three bigs . Should be a fun two months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Edit: Brockers is a pipe dream, they won't be taking another DT. He can't play end in a 4-3, Chan has stressed getting a 4-3 DE not a tweener. Mock an offensive tackle, CB, or WR because those will the targets. If Boo Boo Foot Williams maintains his post contract work ethic you can bet Brockers is the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 That's why I have Reiff in my sig mock, a mauler who fits in with the rest of our guys. May not be the best pass blocker but still good and with our short dropbacks he will be more than adequate. the reason we have such short dropbacks is to coverup how bad our OL is at pass blocking. maybe we should draft some bona fide OT's so we can run a real NFL offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You might be living under a bridge soon Maybe he already does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I don't think posturing is in his vocab. This is kinda sad if they really think DE is not our top need. It is unlikely we will sign a top tier DE free agent. Here is to hoping something got lost in translation. What I got from listening to the interview is that Nix isn't totally convinced that there's a DE that's worth the number 10 pick. During the DE discussion Nix said "middle rounds" and then "second round" when talking about when they might pick one. While I've been screaming for pass rushers in each of the last 3 years, what Nix says makes some sense. The DE class is considered deep but with not much (if any) elite talent at the top. Besides that, the starters are likely to be Kelsay-Williams-Dareus-? with Carrington the most likely candidate to start at the other end. The reason I mention this is that I think the Bills might burn a 2nd or 3rd rounder on a situational pass rusher… a guy with a lot of upside and some college production. Just thinking out loud. p.s.- Signing a free agent like John Abraham, Andre Carter, or Mark Anderson would in essence, be signing a situational pass rusher. Getting a situational rusher in the draft would be a lot cheaper if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 the reason we have such short dropbacks is to coverup how bad our OL is at pass blocking. maybe we should draft some bona fide OT's so we can run a real NFL offense Eh' where is the fun in that, besides it ain't like Reiff is a bum he just isn't as good as pass blocker as Kalil who will be long gone. According to the latest draft ranking Adcock and Datko will be available latter. p.s.- Signing a free agent like John Abraham, Andre Carter, or Mark Anderson would in essence, be signing a situational pass rusher. Getting a situational rusher in the draft would be a lot cheaper if nothing else. True but those guys are proven players, I'd rather draft solid all around players than situational ones and get Carter and Abraham to fill the void as we transition back (again ) Maybe he already does. If Boo Boo Foot Williams maintains his post contract work ethic you can bet Brockers is the pick. Are you saying Williams is lazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm with Buddy on this one you can't draft guys with second or third round talent in the first round just because they fit a need- the value to me around pick 10 looks to be at DT and OT, some might hate picking a DT or OT because it doesn't seem to fit a need but while I'd never question Kyle Williams work ethic, foot injuries seem to reoccur in big men and while I have a higher opinion of Troup and Bell than many on this board they also have had more than their share of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What I got from listening to the interview is that Nix isn't totally convinced that there's a DE that's worth the number 10 pick. During the DE discussion Nix said "middle rounds" and then "second round" when talking about when they might pick one. While I've been screaming for pass rushers in each of the last 3 years, what Nix says makes some sense. The DE class is considered deep but with not much (if any) elite talent at the top. Besides that, the starters are likely to be Kelsay-Williams-Dareus-? with Carrington the most likely candidate to start at the other end. The reason I mention this is that I think the Bills might burn a 2nd or 3rd rounder on a situational pass rusher… a guy with a lot of upside and some college production. Just thinking out loud. p.s.- Signing a free agent like John Abraham, Andre Carter, or Mark Anderson would in essence, be signing a situational pass rusher. Getting a situational rusher in the draft would be a lot cheaper if nothing else. You're not finding a situational pass rusher in the mid rounds, for 2012 at least. I can't remember the last time a rookie from rounds 3-5 came in and contributed in that part of the game to the point of improving that area much. A line featuring Kelsay and Carrington as the RDE and LDE respectively generates as much pass rush as their personnel inadequate 3-4 with no OLB's. One of the reasons this team fails in the pass rush game is they're trying to find those players on the cheap or create pressure through scheme. None of it has worked and while I have reservations about hoping a first or second round type is impact from Day 1, it's where you find top pass rushers. There's no sense signing an Abraham type without grooming the next guy. You just don't get pass rushers without spending significant resources on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) You're not finding a situational pass rusher in the mid rounds, for 2012 at least. I can't remember the last time a rookie from rounds 3-5 came in and contributed in that part of the game to the point of improving that area much. A line featuring Kelsay and Carrington as the RDE and LDE respectively generates as much pass rush as their personnel inadequate 3-4 with no OLB's. One of the reasons this team fails in the pass rush game is they're trying to find those players on the cheap or create pressure through scheme. None of it has worked and while I have reservations about hoping a first or second round type is impact from Day 1, it's where you find top pass rushers. There's no sense signing an Abraham type without grooming the next guy. You just don't get pass rushers without spending significant resources on them. What do you mean? In the NFL history there are plenty of 3-5 round pass rushers that helped their teams in their rookie year. Why couldn't the Bills find one? Last year I can think of two of the top of my head Justin Houston and Sam Acho. Edited February 25, 2012 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You're not finding a situational pass rusher in the mid rounds, for 2012 at least. I can't remember the last time a rookie from rounds 3-5 came in and contributed in that part of the game to the point of improving that area much. A line featuring Kelsay and Carrington as the RDE and LDE respectively generates as much pass rush as their personnel inadequate 3-4 with no OLB's. One of the reasons this team fails in the pass rush game is they're trying to find those players on the cheap or create pressure through scheme. None of it has worked and while I have reservations about hoping a first or second round type is impact from Day 1, it's where you find top pass rushers. There's no sense signing an Abraham type without grooming the next guy. You just don't get pass rushers without spending significant resources on them. Maybe I wasn't clear about what Nix said versus my takeaway from his comments. I believe that he was implying that the Bills would look for pass rush help in the 2nd round. It's common to find pass rushers in the 2nd… just last year Jabbal Sheard, Brooks Reed, and DaQuan Bowers were taken. All three should have good careers as pass rushers. What do you mean? In the NFL history there are plenty of 3-5 round pass rushers that helped their teams in their rookie year. Why couldn't the Bills find one? Last year I can think of two of the top of my head Justin Houston and Sam Acho. Last year's sack leader, Jared Allen was a 4th rounder. Cliff Avril was a 3rd rounder. Chris Clemons had 11 sacks last year and was undrafted. He was tied with Antwan Barnes who was a 4th rounder. Trent Cole was a 5th rounder. Robert Mathis (who many here covet) was a 5th rounder. Elvis Dumervil was a 4th rounder. Charles Johnson was a 3rd rounder. So yes, while it's easier getting a pass rusher in the first round, a lot of pass rushers come out of the 2nd round and you can still find them in the middle rounds too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What do you mean? In the NFL history there are plenty of 3-5 round pass rushers that helped their teams in their rookie year. Why couldn't the Bills find one? Last year I can think of two of the top of my head Justin Houston and Sam Acho. First, the Bills aren't one of the great drafting teams in the NFL. Second, from 2006-11, there have been 7 players drafted in rounds 3-7 who had 5 sacks or more that I could find, 4 of them in 2011: Klug, Houston, Acho, and Pernell McPhee. So in 30 rounds of drafting at 32 picks per, you have 7 guys out of almost 1,000 picks who were adequate or better rushers their first NFL season. And let's say half of those were offensive picks, so that's 7 out of 500. Not very good odds in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) First, the Bills aren't one of the great drafting teams in the NFL. Second, from 2006-11, there have been 7 players drafted in rounds 3-7 who had 5 sacks or more that I could find, 4 of them in 2011: Klug, Houston, Acho, and Pernell McPhee. So in 30 rounds of drafting at 32 picks per, you have 7 guys out of almost 1,000 picks who were adequate or better rushers their first NFL season. And let's say half of those were offensive picks, so that's 7 out of 500. Not very good odds in my book. Wow, what happens when you take the round restriction off; throw in Rounds 1&2 and UDFAs? How many rookies got over 5 sacks? Is there a higher success rate earlier? I'm willing to guess that you'll have the same rookie success rate if you include the earlier rounds. Instead of looking at all players drafted as a percentage it would make sense to limit the total number of players to just DEs and LBs. So looking real quick 2006 = 17 DE, 21 LB 2007 = 15 DE, 27 LB 2008 20 DE 22 LB Lets just call that 40 a year so 240. 7/240 ~3% hit rate in their rookie year. Not to mention that some of those picks ended up putting up sacks after their rookie year as well. But the point being the Bills need pass rush help in 2012. If they get Andre Branch in the second round and Martin/Adams/Floyd in the 1st, I'll be a happy camper. Not a fan of Coples or Ingram at the #10 overall. Edited February 25, 2012 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) That's actually a great point, BB. Brockers is a Dareus--DE or DT. I'd like a trade-down with San Diego at #16. They want ILB badly and will want to move up for Kuechly. In return, we'd get their RD2 and we'd switch places in RD3. It works out for both of us: 1 10 San Diego Luke Kuechly ILB Boston College 1 18 Buffalo Melvin Ingram or Michael Brockers (both are there) 2 42 Buffalo Ronnell Lewis OLB43 Oklahoma 2 49 Buffalo Zebrie Sanders OT or Cam Johnson DE43 Virginia 3 74 San Diego Philip Blake OG Baylor 3 79 Buffalo Nick Toon WRF Wisconsin 4 105 Buffalo Brian Linthicum TE Michigan State or Egnew--both there 4 110 San Diego Nick Foles QB Arizona 4 124 Buffalo Marcus Forston DT43 Miami 5 137 Buffalo Jordan White WRP Western Michigan 5 141 San Diego Brandon Lindsey OLB34 Pittsburgh 6 169 Buffalo Mychal Kendricks ILB California 6 172 San Diego Kevin Koger TE Michigan 7 200 Buffalo Keith Tandy CB West Virginia 7 225 Buffalo Patrick Witt QB Yale Edited February 25, 2012 by Astrobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 If they get Andre Branch in the second round and Martin/Adams/Floyd in the 1st, I'll be a happy camper. Not a fan of Coples or Ingram at the #10 overall. Branch is exactly who I was thinking of. I'm really hoping that he or Curry will be available at #42. No idea how likely that is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) That's actually a great point, BB. Brockers is a Dareus--DE or DT. I'd like a trade-down with San Diego at #16. They want ILB badly and will want to move up for Kuechly. In return, we'd get their RD2 and we'd switch places in RD3. It works out for both of us: 1 10 San Diego Luke Kuechly ILB Boston College 1 18 Buffalo Melvin Ingram or Michael Brockers (both are there) 2 42 Buffalo Ronnell Lewis OLB43 Oklahoma 2 49 Buffalo Zebrie Sanders OT or Cam Johnson DE43 Virginia 3 74 San Diego Philip Blake OG Baylor 3 79 Buffalo Nick Toon WRF Wisconsin 4 105 Buffalo Brian Linthicum TE Michigan State or Egnew--both there 4 110 San Diego Nick Foles QB Arizona 4 124 Buffalo Marcus Forston DT43 Miami 5 137 Buffalo Jordan White WRP Western Michigan 5 141 San Diego Brandon Lindsey OLB34 Pittsburgh 6 169 Buffalo Mychal Kendricks ILB California 6 172 San Diego Kevin Koger TE Michigan 7 200 Buffalo Keith Tandy CB West Virginia 7 225 Buffalo Patrick Witt QB Yale sounds good Edited February 25, 2012 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Watched the interview as well and he never said that DE wasn't our top need (didn't say what it was, which he shouldn't) He just said that the DEs at 10 might not be worth that spot and that there is good depth this year that normally wouldn't be there in the latter rounds. This++ So why the heck can people here not grasp this? Mayock and everyone else is spelling out that the top of the draft is not good for DE's - bummer for us Bills fans, but I don't want them reaching for a guy. Thank you Buddy Nix for not being half as stupid as the people on this board. Given the circumstances, an old guy like Mathis in FA might not be bad - if you have to overpay in the current market for a position of need, might as well do it short-term instead of overpaying a guy on a 5-year deal or reaching on a 1-st rounder that sets you back for years if he's a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This++ So why the heck can people here not grasp this? Mayock and everyone else is spelling out that the top of the draft is not good for DE's - bummer for us Bills fans, but I don't want them reaching for a guy. Thank you Buddy Nix for not being half as stupid as the people on this board. Given the circumstances, an old guy like Mathis in FA might not be bad - if you have to overpay in the current market for a position of need, might as well do it short-term instead of overpaying a guy on a 5-year deal or reaching on a 1-st rounder that sets you back for years if he's a bust. yeah- good thing Buddy vetoed that flyer they took on that super stud Maybin but then again Chan and his defensive genius staff seems to have no clue what to do with a pass rusher - so why waste another premium pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 yeah- good thing Buddy vetoed that flyer they took on that super stud Maybin but then again Chan and his defensive genius staff seems to have no clue what to do with a pass rusher - so why waste another premium pick You are blaming Nix for Maybin????? So I take it you aren't a Bills fan at all, or just completely clueless?? You do realize Buddy wasn't the GM when they picked Maybin, and had barely been on the staff at all at that point. And you do realize they just fired the DC and replaced him with Wannstadt, right? When Nix was first hired to the new position, he made an explicit point of how he doesn't trust 1-year wonders. I kind of suspect he was warning against Maybin and was ignored, which made his interview for the GM spot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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