Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Not gonna argue to vehemently with you, and I to have lost some confidence that was already shaky with Fitz to begin with. He did have some pretty horrible fau paux's this season, but he also had some pretty amazing moments. He did some really good things with basically a thinning and not very intimidating to beign with recieving corp.I think the big thing is that he just lost his confidence,I look at Fitz as a system type player, sort of along the line of Sanchez, and should never really be the focus of the offense, but rather the field general. I think that we all agree that he is a likeable enough guy, actually from some of the things that I have read about him, more than likeable, and when compared with the average athelete attitude of today, he is downright refreshing. So, if they can surround him with the right weapons, and keep him reigned in a bit, I am very comfortable with him being our short to mid term starting QB, and we do have other more pressing needs. More concerned with the quality of our back-ups. I would currently take Fitz over any of the following NFL Staring QB's: -Alex Smith SF -Matt Cassel KC -Carson Palmer/Jason Campbell Radaz -Tim Tebow Den -Sanchez Jets -Freeman TB (Toss-Up) -Matt Moore Mia -Colt McCoy Clev -Whoever the Indy QB was (excluding Manning of course) -Matt Hassleback Tenn -Gabbert Jax -Dalton Cin (had a nice year, not enough body of work) -Flacco (would be a very tough call, roghly same age) -Can't remeber the Seattle QB(s) so that makes my case there. -Arizona all of them -Grossman Wash -Romo That puts him into the top half of the leauge anyhow, IMHO! Fire away! I agree with most of this...I think Romo is the only one I would take off that list, he may be the opposite of clutch, but the guy can play. People who are saying Smith and Flacco shouldn't be on that list, I challenge you to actually watch them play. Smith is awful, his best asset is his mobility. His team finally had success this year do to the defense, running game, and all-pro TE, he was the Trent Dilfer of that team. Smith would have never had a chance on the Bills, and would have been run out of town after a few games. Same for Flacco. That team has a dominant defense, yet he consistently struggles to get that team the lead, even with an all-pro RB. He looks very much like Rob Johnson did for the Bills (but with a better surrounding cast). He holds onto the ball forever, takes too many sacks, and struggles with accuracy. Even his own team called him out. Overrated... Edited January 27, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 talk about being a homer.. romo, freeman,flacco, dalton, smith are all much better than fitz and outside of gabbert who will be a huge bust and possibly mccoy who isnt very good and tebow all the other guys are about same as fitzy.. be realistic, i know hes our guy... but cmon, hes a journeyman QB who throws 2 yard passes and relies on YAC more than anything. if we could get RG3 i would do it in a second... give them this yrs 1st and next yrs 1st with probably a 3rd rounder and a player that could help them that we dont really need.. they are very short in the secondary and we could probably throw in a guy like mccelvin who was a 1st round pick that we dont really need and they may think they can turn him around.. the guy has all the skill but his IQ is probably lower than his age.. By my account, that would still keep him in the upper 2/3's of the leauge. I would take RG3 in a heartbeat as well, but I do not know how you could claim that romo, flacco, dalton, and smith are all MUCH better than Fitz, I just do not see the logic there. I really think that a lot of posters are way off, acting like he was just plain horrible. I won't debate the homer tag, cuase I am definitley one and proud of it, but some of these other posters are just plain off in their assessment of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It doesn't matter what any of us think of Fitz's abilities and weither or not we think he is a starter. The Bills front office and coaching staff all have faith in him and believe he is a starter and have named him their guy to lead this team. He isn't going anywhere, and they aren't going to make a huge move to move up and draft a 1st round QB. The Vikings are doing what the Colts and Rams should be doing. They will sucker some team into a trade that nets them a bunch of picks. (Hopefully said sucker team is not the Bills.) And the team that they "suckered" will walk away from the draft with a very good player, while the bad Vikings, Rams, and Colts will walk away with a bunch of lesser talent and a stockpile of draftpicks! Screw defence winning championships, Draftpicks win Championships!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It doesn't matter what any of us think of Fitz's abilities and weither or not we think he is a starter. The Bills front office and coaching staff all have faith in him and believe he is a starter and have named him their guy to lead this team. He isn't going anywhere, and they aren't going to make a huge move to move up and draft a 1st round QB. This ^ , 100%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 By my account, that would still keep him in the upper 2/3's of the leauge. I would take RG3 in a heartbeat as well, but I do not know how you could claim that romo, flacco, dalton, and smith are all MUCH better than Fitz, I just do not see the logic there. I really think that a lot of posters are way off, acting like he was just plain horrible. I won't debate the homer tag, cuase I am definitley one and proud of it, but some of these other posters are just plain off in their assessment of him. I think fans are scratching their heads at the season Fitzpatrick just had. How he could go from looking like Drew Brees to Trent Edwards in the blink of an eye. He's 28 (29?) years old. You'd expect that kind of a mid-season drop off from a young player, but not a guy as old as Fitzpatrick. We're all hoping that his bad play was injury related and also the fact that key players like Wood and Jackson went down to injuries. He looked great in the early part of the season. That fall off was so disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I think fans are scratching their heads at the season Fitzpatrick just had. How he could go from looking like Drew Brees to Trent Edwards in the blink of an eye. He's 28 (29?) years old. You'd expect that kind of a mid-season drop off from a young player, but not a guy as old as Fitzpatrick. We're all hoping that his bad play was injury related and also the fact that key players like Wood and Jackson went down to injuries. He looked great in the early part of the season. That fall off was so disappointing. Exactly. People are making assumptions like they KNOW what happened to Fitz, but we don't. Was the early part a fluke? Did he struggle due to injuries around him? Did he struggle due to an injury of his own? Did teams just "catch on" to the Bills? I don't know, but IMO he certainly looked good enough in the beginning of the year to deserve at least another year at the helm. Only Drew Bledsoe threw for more TD's in a season than Fitz in the last 2 decades, and Jim Kelly only threw for 25 or more twice in his career. All that with basically 1 WR to throw to. Just saying, give him a chance. How quickly people forget how much better Fitz is than our recent QB's such as Edwards, Losman, Holcomb, Rob Johnson, ect... Would you rather go back to them? Edited January 27, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 So there's a chance it's all over your keyboard and you can't use it? GO BILLS!!! Exactly. People are making assumptions like they KNOW what happened to Fitz, but we don't. Was the early part a fluke? Did he struggle due to injuries around him? Did he struggle due to an injury of his own? Did teams just "catch on" to the Bills? I don't know, but IMO he certainly looked good enough in the beginning of the year to deserve at least another year at the helm. Only Drew Bledsoe threw for more TD's in a season than Fitz in the last 2 decades, and Jim Kelly only threw for 25 or more twice in his career. All that with basically 1 WR to throw to. Just saying, give him a chance. How quickly people forget how much better Fitz is than our recent QB's such as Edwards, Losman, Holcomb, Rob Johnson, ect... Would you rather go back to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 1327626366[/url]' post='2371708']Not gonna argue to vehemently with you, and I to have lost some confidence that was already shaky with Fitz to begin with. He did have some pretty horrible fau paux's this season, but he also had some pretty amazing moments. He did some really good things with basically a thinning and not very intimidating to beign with recieving corp.I think the big thing is that he just lost his confidence,I look at Fitz as a system type player, sort of along the line of Sanchez, and should never really be the focus of the offense, but rather the field general. I think that we all agree that he is a likeable enough guy, actually from some of the things that I have read about him, more than likeable, and when compared with the average athelete attitude of today, he is downright refreshing. So, if they can surround him with the right weapons, and keep him reigned in a bit, I am very comfortable with him being our short to mid term starting QB, and we do have other more pressing needs. More concerned with the quality of our back-ups. I would currently take Fitz over any of the following NFL Staring QB's: -Alex Smith SF -Matt Cassel KC -Carson Palmer/Jason Campbell Radaz -Tim Tebow Den -Sanchez Jets -Freeman TB (Toss-Up) -Matt Moore Mia -Colt McCoy Clev -Whoever the Indy QB was (excluding Manning of course) -Matt Hassleback Tenn -Gabbert Jax -Dalton Cin (had a nice year, not enough body of work) -Flacco (would be a very tough call, roghly same age) -Can't remeber the Seattle QB(s) so that makes my case there. -Arizona all of them -Grossman Wash -Romo That puts him into the top half of the leauge anyhow, IMHO! Fire away! You'd rather have Fitz than Romo and Dalton?? There's a couple other names I could bring up too, but Romo and Dalton? You deserve a firing squad. Homer for sure. 5 games really sold you huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angryfan62 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Exactly. People are making assumptions like they KNOW what happened to Fitz, but we don't. Was the early part a fluke? Did he struggle due to injuries around him? Did he struggle due to an injury of his own? Did teams just "catch on" to the Bills? I don't know, but IMO he certainly looked good enough in the beginning of the year to deserve at least another year at the helm. Only Drew Bledsoe threw for more TD's in a season than Fitz in the last 2 decades, and Jim Kelly only threw for 25 or more twice in his career. All that with basically 1 WR to throw to. Just saying, give him a chance. How quickly people forget how much better Fitz is than our recent QB's such as Edwards, Losman, Holcomb, Rob Johnson, ect... Would you rather go back to them? I believe that it was a combination of all 4 of those actually. I believe that our early season success was in large part due to the fact that we simply stopped running the same old plays and formations on offense that we had been running for the last 7 years, teams had to rewrite their "book" on us. Then we began to lose offensive line players to injury cutting down on Fitz's time to execute these new plays and disrupting their timing. This led directly to increased QB pressures and sacks, one or several of which I believe resulted in an injury to Fitzpatrick of some kind which further reduced his passing ability and mobility. This combined with the fact that opposing teams had by then realized that we had no real deep threat receiver and that unless Fitz had tons of time in the pocket there would be no passes of over 20 yards attempted. They could now "cheat" up their secondary and render the teams short, quick passing attack largely ineffective. That being said the last time we had a QB who wanted to win every game as bad as Fitz does was when we were starting Doug Flutie(Another QB with "marginal" talents"). He played through an injury, when's the last time we saw that from anyone we've had at the position. In my opinion we should give Fitz 1 more year to see if he can move this team consistently with a better surrounding cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 1327672882[/url]' post='2371934']By my account, that would still keep him in the upper 2/3's of the leauge. I would take RG3 in a heartbeat as well, but I do not know how you could claim that romo, flacco, dalton, and smith are all MUCH better than Fitz, I just do not see the logic there. I really think that a lot of posters are way off, acting like he was just plain horrible. I won't debate the homer tag, cuase I am definitley one and proud of it, but some of these other posters are just plain off in their assessment of him. What you're not really understanding: A: the goal is to win a SB. Fitz winning a SB is close to mathmatically impossible (if there was an equation). B: just because he's better (you think he's better) than 1/2-2/3 of nfl qbs doesn't mean he will ever be anything more than an average qb, yielding average results, allowing us to be an average team. Settle for mediocrity, accept being average. No thx. Qbs matter more than any single position, get a good/great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) What you're not really understanding: A: the goal is to win a SB. Fitz winning a SB is close to mathmatically impossible (if there was an equation). B: just because he's better (you think he's better) than 1/2-2/3 of nfl qbs doesn't mean he will ever be anything more than an average qb, yielding average results, allowing us to be an average team. Settle for mediocrity, accept being average. No thx. Qbs matter more than any single position, get a good/great one. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, and Fitz is far better than him...Just saying.. Sure we would all like to have the next Payton Manning or Drew Brees...I'm just happy NOT having another Edwards or Losman.... Personally for me, watching a Bills team that rarely can reach .500, I'd love to see a guy just get us to the playoffs, let alone Super Bowl. I think Fitz can do that, If the Bills have a realistic opportunity to upgrade without sacrificing the rest of the team, I'm all for that too... Edited January 27, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 You'd rather have Fitz than Romo and Dalton?? There's a couple other names I could bring up too, but Romo and Dalton? You deserve a firing squad. Homer for sure. 5 games really sold you huh? Romo is overrated and Fitz & Daltons stats weren't much different, except Dalton had more wins (more of a team stat) and less INTs, Fitz had more Yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Sure we would all like to have the next Payton Manning or Drew Brees...I'm just happy NOT having another Edwards or Losman.... I understand where you are coming from, but that statement just smacks of accepting mediocrity to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I understand where you are coming from, but that statement just smacks of accepting mediocrity to me. Take it for what it is. I would accept anything that is an IMPROVEMENT from the garbage the Bills have produced over the last 15 years. Fitz is the closest thing to a real QB the Bills have had in over a decade, and yet people still complain. No he is not "great", he will not be going to the HOF most likely. But if he gets us to the Playoffs next year, yes I would be happy with that as a Bills fan...If that is accepting mediocrity, then so be it... Mediocrity is still better than awful... And like I said, if Dilfer won a SB, so can Fitz, you never know. Edited January 27, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Fitz is the guy, we're going to keep building around him until there's nothing more we can do. With the right pieces he can take this team places. Why do you think Fitz can take the team places? Based on what? He had a full season to show what he has and most of it wasn't very good. He is very capable of losing games. Take it for what it is. I would accept anything that is an IMPROVEMENT from the garbage the Bills have produced over the last 15 years. Fitz is the closest thing to a real QB the Bills have had in over a decade, and yet people still complain. No he is not "great", he will not be going to the HOF most likely. But if he gets us to the Playoffs next year, yes I would be happy with that as a Bills fan...If that is accepting mediocrity, then so be it... Mediocrity is still better than awful... And like I said, if Dilfer won a SB, so can Fitz, you never know. Agree somehat, however comparing Dilfer on that team to Fitz on this team doesn't add up, IMO. The Ravens were based on defense and didn't require Dilfer to throw much. Gailey's offense is basically predicated on throwing, all the time, no matter what, even when they shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Agree somehat, however comparing Dilfer on that team to Fitz on this team doesn't add up, IMO. The Ravens were based on defense and didn't require Dilfer to throw much. Gailey's offense is basically predicated on throwing, all the time, no matter what, even when they shouldn't. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way comparing the Bills to those Ravens. Just saying, if Dilfer can win a SB, any one can if the team is built right around them. Obviously it is an extreme and rare example Edited January 27, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, and Fitz is far better than him...Just saying.. Sure we would all like to have the next Payton Manning or Drew Brees...I'm just happy NOT having another Edwards or Losman.... Personally for me, watching a Bills team that rarely can reach .500, I'd love to see a guy just get us to the playoffs, let alone Super Bowl. I think Fitz can do that, If the Bills have a realistic opportunity to upgrade without sacrificing the rest of the team, I'm all for that too... Dilfer had one of the best defenses of all time behind him! Meanwhile the bills have the worst defense in their history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I am in no way comparing the Bills to those Ravens. Just saying, if Dilfer can win a SB, any one can if the team is built right around them. Obviously it is an extreme and rare example Not sure it is rare or extreme: Ripken Williams Hostetler johnson Dilfer E.Manning(although he has grown) At least 10% of the SB winning QBs are anything but elite and the is treating some average/above average QBs generously. Edited January 27, 2012 by cklapka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I am in no way comparing the Bills to those Ravens. Just saying, if Dilfer can win a SB, any one can if the team is built right around them. Obviously it is an extreme and rare example Right. I get it. I think also if Gailey ran the ball more they would have an even better chance of doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Could happen. Do you think the Rams new regime believe in Bradford? PTR Does the fact that people are even asking this question about StL and Bradford cause anyone here to have even the teentsiest bit of doubt about the wisdom of expecting a high pick QB to turn around a team instantly? Because it should, my friends. It should. Though I know it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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