melvin ingram and jared crick

[Buffalo Barbarian]

ingram at 10 would bum me out. id much rather have coples or upshaw at the moment. a lot of time between now and draft day. im kinda worried that at 6-2 hes a little short.

Coples is overrated and upshaw can't rush although he is a great LB.

[CarolinaBill]

ingram at 10 would bum me out. id much rather have coples or upshaw at the moment. a lot of time between now and draft day. im kinda worried that at 6-2 hes a little short.

James harrison and dumervill are short too, along with freeney, its about speed and explosion, using hands and getting free, Ingram does those things very well, and as I said previously, he has the scheme versatility to play 34 & 43, which is great for us because that means hes potentially a 3 down player and not just a specialist, plus hes valuable on fg/point block and ST.

Not to mention, 19 sacks the past 2 yrs.

Edited January 26, 2012 by CarolinaBill

[RealityCheck]

I knew a Melvin once. We threw him out of the gym window into a drum of toxic waste. He got much taller and stronger because of it.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I remember alot of fans being high on Erik Flowers way back when. I wasn't on this board at the time, but alot of people were like whoo-hoo! Now,I'm not comparing Flowers to Ingram, I just think we should really BE SPECIFIC about how the individual can be used, as opposed to just saying "Draft that guy, he's talented!"

 

I like a lot of things about Ingram, but I HATE him at #10.

You just did compare the two.

 

Specific about how he's going to be used?

 

"Go kill the guy with the football." How's that for specific?

 

 

ingram at 10 would bum me out. id much rather have coples or upshaw at the moment. a lot of time between now and draft day. im kinda worried that at 6-2 hes a little short.

Ingram and Upshaw have VERY SIMILAR body types.

 

They're both 6'2" and over 260 pounds. Ingram is actually over 270 so he's thickly built but I expect him to run the 40 in the high 4.5 to low 4.6 range.

 

 

[robert cohen]

Didn't see crick much because he tore his peck but had a good junior year would be a nice addition not sure what position he'd be for us since they "wont say" what D we will run.

 

Ingram is pretty good too but wasn't overwhelmed with his pass rush and am not sure how he would transition to OLB.

crick reminds me of another white boy we drafted out of neb.. kelsay... stay away...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

From NFL.com:

 

"North Carolina DE Quinton Coples has been the most dominant defender on either roster, and his spectacular performance has quelled some of the concerns about his lackadaisical play as a senior. Coples has abused blockers in 1-on-1 drills with his combination of strength, power and athleticism. He has shown the ability to put together a series of power moves in sequence, which makes him tough to block in isolated situations. While he still lacks the explosive burst that is typically displayed by elite rushers, his ability to collapse the pocket could make him a difficult block as a potential left defensive end or defensive tackle (three- or five-technique) in a 4-3.

 

» South Carolina DE/OLB Melvin Ingram flashes the speed and athleticism to become an immediate difference maker as a pro. At 6-foot-2, 276 pounds, he possesses cat-like quickness and burst. He blows past defenders on upfield rushes, but also shows a spin move that allows him to win to the inside. He kept blockers off balance with his wide array of moves, and few blockers were able to contain him during the 1-on-1 period. He wasn't nearly as effective in team drills, but his occasional flashes are so impressive that it is easy to envision him making a big impact as an edge player in an attacking scheme."

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/seniorbowl/story/09000d5d8264cb6c/article/coples-stands-out-in-first-day-of-padded-senior-bowl-practices?module=HP11_cp

 

[Turbosrrgood]

ingram at 10 would bum me out. id much rather have coples or upshaw at the moment. a lot of time between now and draft day. im kinda worried that at 6-2 hes a little short.

 

So you would prefer a dominating pass rusher like Ryan Denny at 6-7 or Aaron Maybin at 6-4...as opposed to those bums like Dummerville and Harrison who are under 6 foot...

 

Upshaw is great, and if the Bills plan to use a 3-4 I'm all for him...If they go 4-3 he probably isn't the guy...

Edited January 25, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[Turbosrrgood]

From NFL.com:

 

» South Carolina DE/OLB Melvin Ingram flashes the speed and athleticism to become an immediate difference maker as a pro. At 6-foot-2, 276 pounds, he possesses cat-like quickness and burst. He blows past defenders on upfield rushes, but also shows a spin move that allows him to win to the inside. He kept blockers off balance with his wide array of moves, and few blockers were able to contain him during the 1-on-1 period. He wasn't nearly as effective in team drills, but his occasional flashes are so impressive that it is easy to envision him making a big impact as an edge player in an attacking scheme."

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/seniorbowl/story/09000d5d8264cb6c/article/coples-stands-out-in-first-day-of-padded-senior-bowl-practices?module=HP11_cp

 

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That description sounds like EXACTLY what the Bills need. Combination of size, speed, and rushing moves, plus the ability to play either DE or OLB. If the Bills think he can live up to that description, that pick would be just fine by me... Playing next to KW and Dareus would give him plenty of opportunity as well..

 

I didn't watch a ton of Ingram live though, so I have to rely on other's descriptions and opinions.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[thebandit27]

From NFL.com:

 

"North Carolina DE Quinton Coples has been the most dominant defender on either roster, and his spectacular performance has quelled some of the concerns about his lackadaisical play as a senior. Coples has abused blockers in 1-on-1 drills with his combination of strength, power and athleticism. He has shown the ability to put together a series of power moves in sequence, which makes him tough to block in isolated situations. While he still lacks the explosive burst that is typically displayed by elite rushers, his ability to collapse the pocket could make him a difficult block as a potential left defensive end or defensive tackle (three- or five-technique) in a 4-3.

 

» South Carolina DE/OLB Melvin Ingram flashes the speed and athleticism to become an immediate difference maker as a pro. At 6-foot-2, 276 pounds, he possesses cat-like quickness and burst. He blows past defenders on upfield rushes, but also shows a spin move that allows him to win to the inside. He kept blockers off balance with his wide array of moves, and few blockers were able to contain him during the 1-on-1 period. He wasn't nearly as effective in team drills, but his occasional flashes are so impressive that it is easy to envision him making a big impact as an edge player in an attacking scheme."

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/seniorbowl/story/09000d5d8264cb6c/article/coples-stands-out-in-first-day-of-padded-senior-bowl-practices?module=HP11_cp

 

 

Again, it's very early in the process, but this is about how I see things as well.

 

Coples will be the top DE in the class, and will likely be gone within the first 8 picks. After that, I think it's going to come down to the eye-of-the-beholder for which pass rusher goes next between Upshaw and Ingram. I personally like Ingram, because I believe Buffalo will play primarily out of a 4-man front next season, and he's more of a fit as a down lineman than Upshaw (and I think he's a more gifted athlete). I do like Upshaw, but I really feel like he's a textbook 3-4 OLB, so if we plan to use that scheme most often, I'll have no issue with that pick either.

 

Regardless, I'm obviously in favor of a pass rusher with the #10 pick, but as I always say, don't ever pass up the best player simply because of need.

 

That description sounds like EXACTLY what the Bills need. Combination of size, speed, and rushing moves, plus the ability to play either DE or OLB. If the Bills think he can live up to that description, that pick would be just fine by me... Playing next to KW and Dareus would give him plenty of opportunity as well..

 

I didn't watch a ton of Ingram live though, so I have to rely on other's descriptions and opinions.

 

He's very eye-catching when you watch games, because as a defensive lineman, you don't expect to see him cover as much ground as he does.

 

Agree regarding him fitting our needs...how great would it be if Buffalo could sign Mario Williams and draft one of these pass rushers? Dream scenario?

[808]

i said kind of worried. you pussies are calling the exceptions as the rule harrison/dummerville. there is a ton of time between now and the draft. but saying i called those guys bums is a blatant lie. i said nothing of that sort. i said ingrams height kind of worries me. and i didnt say denny/flowers/maybin were awesome. its like you guys are ina relationship with these guys.

[#34fan]

You just did compare the two.

 

Specific about how he's going to be used?

 

"Go kill the guy with the football." How's that for specific?

 

 

Not specific at all. -And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

It seems we draft these amazing natural talents, only to turn them loose with little, to no coaching on their professional roles. Invariably, they end up being guys who have great games here and there, but who never develop into consisitent, dominant, players. After wasting the most productive years of their careers, we discard them, often seeing them flourish elsewhere.

 

I see Ingram as more of a package component, than a stand-alone pass rusher. Like when the Giants line up 4DE's for that speed rush package. In other formations he could be sent as a late blitzer, or even used as a LB/QB-spy to "kill" more mobile passers. IMO These roles would be good fits for fast, strong, athletic, guys like Ingram.

 

In the end, it's really too bad. If we had two picks in the first, he might be one of mine too. IMO, we've already drafted so many players out of scheme that we can't afford to draft another question mark at #10.

 

Btw, 276 is a little chunky for a 4-3 defensive end. Carrying that kind of weight at 6'2 also gives me pause.

Edited January 25, 2012 by #34fan

[buffalover4life]

pat kiwan on olbs...

 

Here's a quick look at the best hybrid pass rushers at the Senior Bowl. The top two will almost certainly be taken in the first round, and the rest of them will be gone by the fourth.

 

1. Melvin Ingram, South Carolina (6-1 7/8, 276 pounds)

 

Ingram couldn't be blocked in the Tuesday practice, as he showcased a complete arsenal of pass rush moves. He reminds me a lot of Pittsburgh Steelers star LaMarr Woodley, and is stout against the run. I see him as more of a 3-4 outside linebacker than a 4-3 defensive end.

 

2. Courtney Upshaw, Alabama (6-1 1/2, 273)

 

Upshaw is another ideal 3-4 OLB in the mold of Woodley, but he can come out of a three-point stance with explosiveness as an open-side end if a 4-3 team is interested. Upshaw does not have as much quick-twitch ability as Ingram, but he makes up for it in pure strength and football speed.

 

link

[JPS]

Crick is a flop...he lived off Suh as a sophomore and when Suh left Cricks play fell off dramatically. Find me a quality opponent Nebraska played and you won't find Crick. He's Kelsay only not as "good" - stay away

I never heard of the guy....but have you looked at those highlights. Seems powerful and is in on a lot of plays. Ingram looks like a freak. Dunno if it works out this way, but if they took these two, at leas they would be addressing a need.

 

crick reminds me of another white boy we drafted out of neb.. kelsay... stay away...

The only thing Crick and Kelsay have in common is their alma mater and their skin color. Totally different players. Crick looks like he has some power.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Not specific at all. -And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

It seems we draft these amazing natural talents, only to turn them loose with little, to no coaching on their professional roles. Invariably, they end up being guys who have great games here and there, but who never develop into consisitent, dominant, players. After wasting the most productive years of their careers, we discard them, often seeing them flourish elsewhere.

 

I see Ingram as more of a package component, than a stand-alone pass rusher. Like when the Giants line up 4DE's for that speed rush package. In other formations he could be sent as a late blitzer, or even used as a LB/QB-spy to "kill" more mobile passers. IMO These roles would be good fits for fast, strong, athletic, guys like Ingram.

 

In the end, it's really too bad. If we had two picks in the first, he might be one of mine too. IMO, we've already drafted so many players out of scheme that we can't afford to draft another question mark at #10.

 

Btw, 276 is a little chunky for a 4-3 defensive end. Carrying that kind of weight at 6'2 also gives me pause.

If you saw him play, watched his videotapes or his Senior Bowl workouts you would have zero concerns about his "chunkiness."

 

As numerous people including professional observers have already stated, Ingram has the athleticism to play OLB.

 

Who did you say you'd like the Bills to draft?

 

 

[HuSeYiN1978]

I'll admit to having a homerish view here, but IMO Ingram should be the pick, love his hustle and playmaking ability

 

I'm with you... Ingram looked the hungriest in today's practice. I like him alot. I know I'm pushing it but IMO Ingram is this year's Von Miller in the draft.

[#34fan]

If you saw him play, watched his videotapes or his Senior Bowl workouts you would have zero concerns about his "chunkiness."

 

As numerous people including professional observers have already stated, Ingram has the athleticism to play OLB.

 

Who did you say you'd like the Bills to draft?

 

To be honest, my draft is still evolving. Nevertheless, this is primarily what i'd like to see. It may change slightly in a month, but for now, these are my guys.

 

1) OG Dave Decastro, Stanford

2) DE Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

3) WR Rishard Matthews, Nevada-Reno

4) OT Nate Potter, Boise State

5) TE Nick Provo, Syracuse

6) Don't care

7) Don't care

[mob16151]

The only thing Crick and Kelsay have in common is their alma mater and their skin color. Totally different players. Crick looks like he has some power.

Yea if you want to compare Crick to a Nebraskan underachiever, think Carriker more than Kelsay.

[Bflojohn]

If Crick is drafted in Buffalo, he'll do most of us a huge favor, by having the LDE spot all to himself and that way Kelsay can be cut! By the way, Crick would look fine in the 4-3 scheme, and our #1 last year, Dareus, is the Suh type player he would thrive off of in the future. Imagine a line of Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus, and Jared Crick! WOW!! Incidently, last year J.J. Watt was exactly the type of player Crick could be compared to, and Watt help launch Houston to the #2 ranking defensively in the N.F.L., so I'd take that kind of player any day!!

[buffalover4life]

To be honest, my draft is still evolving. Nevertheless, this is primarily what i'd like to see. It may change slightly in a month, but for now, these are my guys.

 

1) OG Dave Decastro, Stanford

2) DE Whitney Mercilus, Illinois

3) WR Rishard Matthews, Nevada-Reno

4) OT Nate Potter, Boise State

5) TE Nick Provo, Syracuse

6) Don't care

7) Don't care

 

I think the first pick is automatic defense, we need pass rushers and if we don't get a pass rusher we will be getting a corner. Drayton florence killed us in a few games last year and he should be at best our nickle corner. our offensive line has improved and will continue to do so as they get more experience.