Chris Kelsay's stats

[apuszczalowski]

I disagree. Most past Bills cuts have gone on to backup roles or early retirement. Nix was the one who cut the players who could've helped us win (Lynch, Evans, Maybin)

Only one of those players was a cut, Lynch was traded to Seattle and Evans was traded to Baltimore. 2 of those 3 players (Lynch and Maybin), the majority of Bills fans were ready to drive to the airport to get rid of (Lynch for being a thug, one step away from a season suspension and had quit, the other was a guy that people hated since he was drafted and was believed to have absolutly no buisness playing in the NFL due to him being so undersized). As for Evans, I would say the fan base was split 50/50 on him, he was no longer productive as a #1 WR, but believed to be a superior "Decoy" to allow everyone else to get open

[San-O]

It's funny that guys keep attacking Kelsay...Other than Dareus he is the only one who comes anywhere near the QB. Sure he is no star, average at best...but of all the problems on this team why attack the player that ISN'T one? What about the other side? Merriman is washed up, Moats and Batten have been invisible to say the least. Sheppard is still learning and struggling.

 

Barnett has been our only other consistent LB. Opposing teams only have to do 2 things against the pass, double Dareus, and double Kelsay (which they do on most plays). Other than those 2 no one else is even close to a threat.

 

Kelsay is no star as I have said, but the Bill's had NO ONE else. They picked up Merriman and Barnett (at least one good pickup), and had "prospects" of Batten and Moats...Those guys didn't step up, actually they have been awful. Don't blame Keslay because no one else has played better than him.

 

 

He has virtually NO stats for the year. How do you explain that away?

 

[Turbosrrgood]

Wrong. When Kelsay was injured, our pass rush looked ferocious against Philly. Both Moats and Batten have actual STATS despite playing a fraction of what Kelsay has. They both have .5 sacks. Batten has 2 tackles for losses, a fumble recovery and 23 tackles. Moats has one tackle for a loss and pretty much ended Favre's career last season. I'm not saying those guys are great, but they have way more upside than Kelsay. He is horrible and must be cut.

 

Lol, so your argument is that those other guys that are so "ferocious" each have .5 sacks....You are right, they are awesome, what was I thinking... You do realize that Moats has been playing almost every down (3-4 formation) at the other OLB position right? I know, it's hard to tell because he has been invisible when on the field. Batten has basically been benched, since he simply just didn't cut it.

 

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, and you can try and justify it to yourself all you want, but we don't have anyone better than Kelsay at the moment. When we do...then maybe we cut him. Cutting a guy, and replacing him with an even worse guy, does not solve any problems...

Edited December 16, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[San-O]

Lol, so your argument is that those other guys that are so "ferocious" each have .5 sacks....You are right, they are awesome, what was I thinking... You do realize that Moats has been playing almost every down (3-4 formation) at the other OLB position right? I know, it's hard to tell because he has been invisible when on the field. Batten has basically been benched, since he simply just didn't cut it.

 

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, and you can try and justify it to yourself all you want, but we don't have anyone better than Kelsay at the moment. When we do...then maybe we cut him. Cutting a guy, and replacing him with an even worse guy, does not solve any problems...

 

 

So. Kelsay demands double-teams, which implies D coordinators are game planning for him?

 

Seriously?

 

[Turbosrrgood]

He has virtually NO stats for the year. How do you explain that away?

 

 

They are stats, I form my opinion on actually watching guys play...On a team decimated by injury, the few decent players left just get double teamed or avoided. As I said, Kelsey is no star, and he is no pass rushing specialist, but he is at least pushing the pocket. That's more than can be said for any other LB on the team.

 

I'd love to have a guy better than Kelsey start in his place...Who on our roster do you think is better than Kelsey?

 

Batten? He had his chance, benched. Moats? He's starting, and getting blown away by opposing blockers on every play. Who?

 

We OLB's, I agree with that. But until we get some better ones how does cutting our only serviceable OLB help us?

[mountainwampus]

Lol, so your argument is that those other guys that are so "ferocious" each have .5 sacks....You are right, they are awesome, what was I thinking... You do realize that Moats has been playing almost every down (3-4 formation) at the other OLB position right? I know, it's hard to tell because he has been invisible when on the field. Batten has basically been benched, since he simply just didn't cut it.

 

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, and you can try and justify it to yourself all you want, but we don't have anyone better than Kelsay at the moment. When we do...then maybe we cut him. Cutting a guy, and replacing him with an even worse guy, does not solve any problems...

 

No, the "pass rush" was ferocious, not just Moats and Batten. The whole unit looked awesome. Vick was running for his life.

 

and No- Moats does not play almost every down. Usually just 3rd.

 

I will give Kelsay credit for one thing: Drawing holding penalties. He's done that at least twice this year.

[Turbosrrgood]

So. Kelsay demands double-teams, which implies D coordinators are game planning for him?

 

Seriously?

 

 

You obviously don't watch the games do you...Moats is almost always left isolated 1-1, Dareus is doubled on virtually every play. Depending on the play call Kelsay is frequently getting the RB, TE, or G blocking down him. Teams don't NEED to do that, Kelsay is hardly a scary rusher. My point is that when a team has such few threats (as the Bills do), you are going to block the biggest threats. And uhh I doubt D coordinators are planning for Kelsay, but OC's yeah. That's their job, to plan against the other teams players whether they are good or not.

 

Like I have said, the Bills have no one better than Kelsay, I have yet to hear you offer anything on that other than confused looks..

 

No, the "pass rush" was ferocious, not just Moats and Batten. The whole unit looked awesome. Vick was running for his life.

 

and No- Moats does not play almost every down. Usually just 3rd.

 

I will give Kelsay credit for one thing: Drawing holding penalties. He's done that at least twice this year.

 

Ok, I'll ask again then, if we cut Kelsay who do you start in his place? At no point have I said Kelsay is great...It just doesn't make any sense to cut a guy because you dont personally like him, If you have no one to replace him it just makes the team worse.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Billsguy]

My linkhttp://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4506/chris-kelsay

 

Chris Kelsay: Lights On.

He has dwindled into nothing. If he doesn't get cut after this season, something is seriously wrong. Just look at his career stats. He used to split snaps with Denney and still put up decent numbers. Now he is an "every down" player and can't do ANYTHING. This year he has only 1 sack (In the Redskins game where they were nearly automatic) and 0 tackles for a loss. 20 total tackles, 12 solo (mostly ugly for big gains) and 0 for every other stat. Does any other starting OLB in the NFL have such non-exsistant stats? I think it takes more than a "high motor" to be in the NFL. You have to make a play once in a while. AT LEAST one good play per season.

 

 

Kelsay must be in line for another huge extension to his contract. The worse he plays, the more money he gets.

 

This is a perfect example, and there are many to choose from, why the Bills are perennial doormats. Bad decision making from top to bottom!

[mountainwampus]

Check this out.

 

"Kelsay is the highest-paid 3-4 outside linebacker and fourth overall, behind superstar defensive ends Julius Peppers and Dwight Freeney and three-time Pro Bowl defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch. All three have at least twice as many sacks as Kelsay. "

 

"Strange as it might seem, Kelsay's average per year actually went down with his new deal. The NFLPA still had him categorized as a defensive end heading into 2010 because that's the position he played his entire career before the Bills switched to a 3-4 scheme.

 

His average salary was $5.75 million, making him the 15th highest-paid defensive end regardless of age or experience. He was listed ahead of Robert Mathis, Shaun Ellis, Trent Cole and Chris Long, who received a gaudy contract as the second overall draft pick in 2008. "

Edited December 16, 2011 by mountainwampus

[Turbosrrgood]

Check this out.

 

"Kelsay is the highest-paid 3-4 outside linebacker and fourth overall, behind superstar defensive ends Julius Peppers and Dwight Freeney and three-time Pro Bowl defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch. All three have at least twice as many sacks as Kelsay. "

 

"Strange as it might seem, Kelsay's average per year actually went down with his new deal. The NFLPA still had him categorized as a defensive end heading into 2010 because that's the position he played his entire career before the Bills switched to a 3-4 scheme.

 

His average salary was $5.75 million, making him the 15th highest-paid defensive end regardless of age or experience. He was listed ahead of Robert Mathis, Shaun Ellis, Trent Cole and Chris Long, who received a gaudy contract as the second overall draft pick in 2008. "

 

I was never a fan of signing Kelsay to be a 3-4 OLB, so I was never a fan of that contract. However the numbers in that article are simply wrong. Kelsay's contract was heavily incentive based, and included a relatively small 2M bonus. It is quite obvious that Kelsay will likely earn 2M which is his base salary, not 5M. Interesting that he did not post the actual contract terms in that article, just his assumption that Kelsey would hit all of the bonuses (I believe 5M was the max with incentives, that he is obviously not reaching).

 

There are roster bonuses that the Bills would have to pay to keep him around...That would be the time and reason you would see him get cut, if he does.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[mountainwampus]

I was never a fan of signing Kelsay to be a 3-4 OLB, so I was never a fan of that contract. However the numbers in that article are simply wrong. Kelsay's contract was heavily incentive based, and included a relatively small 2M bonus. It is quite obvious that Kelsay will likely earn 2M which is his base salary, not 5M. Interesting that he did not post the actual contract terms in that article, just his assumption that Kelsey would hit nearly all of the bonuses.

 

There are roster bonuses that the Bills would have to pay to keep him around...That would be the time and reason you would see him get cut, if he does.

 

 

Maybe your right, but every source I can find lists Kelsay at around $5 mil per year, and I do remember when both him and Denney were both Making $6 Mil. It just seems outlandish. My argument isn't about the money, it's that he's so bad at OLB that he shouldn't even be on the field/team anymore. He was mediocre in his prime and now he is in decline. I could make the same argument about Spencer Johnson but I feel he is slightly better and I assume he draws in less salary. Nonetheless, Johnson has no business playing OLB. The Bills could be a serious playoff contender if they weren't SO weak at this one position. I think the secondary has a lot of talent, as do the DTs and ILBs. I'm not the only one. Experts, analysts and posters alike keep saying it. OLB has been brought again and again. If you want to beat the Bills, attack the OLBs.

[Gray Beard]

Every other thread is about the lack of depth, and now people want to cut somebody who is good but not great. There was another thread yesterday that said Sheppard was on his way to being a bust because after three games in his rookie year, he is probably not going to be invited to the pro bowl. You can't have it both ways. Cut guys who are supposedly underperforming, and then whine about lack of depth.

[Turbosrrgood]

Maybe your right, but every source I can find lists Kelsay at around $5 mil per year, and I do remember when both him and Denney were both Making $6 Mil. It just seems outlandish. My argument isn't about the money, it's that he's so bad at OLB that he shouldn't even be on the field/team anymore. He was mediocre in his prime and now he is in decline. I could make the same argument about Spencer Johnson but I feel he is slightly better and I assume he draws in less salary. Nonetheless, Johnson has no business playing OLB. The Bills could be a serious playoff contender if they weren't SO weak at this one position. I think the secondary has a lot of talent, as do the DTs and ILBs. I'm not the only one. Experts, analysts and posters alike keep saying it. OLB has been brought again and again. If you want to beat the Bills, attack the OLBs.

 

I think were are closing in on agreement about some things...I definitely agree that our secondary and DL is decent, if not strong when healthy. Very clearly OLB is by far our biggest concern. My point was and still is that complaining about Kelsay is pointless unless we have someone better to take his place, which we don't. I've posted more details on his contract, his base salary is 2M for this year and would be shocked if he has hit any incentives. Roster bonuses make up a good chunk of that contract, and there is a decent chance you will get your wish and he will be cut before he ever gets those. The Bills hate to pay money they don't need to...

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/9/30/1722305/chris-kelsay-contract-details-lb-gets-10-raise

 

Every other thread is about the lack of depth, and now people want to cut somebody who is good but not great. There was another thread yesterday that said Sheppard was on his way to being a bust because after three games in his rookie year, he is probably not going to be invited to the pro bowl. You can't have it both ways. Cut guys who are supposedly underperforming, and then whine about lack of depth.

 

+1

Edited December 16, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[K-9]

Check this out.

 

"Kelsay is the highest-paid 3-4 outside linebacker and fourth overall, behind superstar defensive ends Julius Peppers and Dwight Freeney and three-time Pro Bowl defensive end Kyle Vanden Bosch. All three have at least twice as many sacks as Kelsay. "

 

"Strange as it might seem, Kelsay's average per year actually went down with his new deal. The NFLPA still had him categorized as a defensive end heading into 2010 because that's the position he played his entire career before the Bills switched to a 3-4 scheme.

 

His average salary was $5.75 million, making him the 15th highest-paid defensive end regardless of age or experience. He was listed ahead of Robert Mathis, Shaun Ellis, Trent Cole and Chris Long, who received a gaudy contract as the second overall draft pick in 2008. "

 

To be fair, this is from over a year ago and is confined to players his age and with 100 games or more played. I'd like to see an updated list that includes ALL players at BOTH positions before I can put it in proper context.

 

The main point is that Kelsay, at an average of $5m a year is hardly an albatross on the Bills' cap.

 

I won't bother to debate any element of your statistical argument for Batten and Moats. They aren't half the player Kelsay is at the moment, stats or no stats. Watch the games.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[todd]

Couldn't have Aaron Maybin played this role at the very worst? At least we would have known 100% without a shadow of a doubt if the kid could play or not after a full season of "real" in game snaps.

 

That's what I don't get. You keep and overpay and overplay (starting) an expensive, grossly overpaid vet but cut a disappointing yet unproven high 1st round draft pick with little NFL experience.

 

Do you remember how HORRIBLE maybin was? I mean, the guy sucked. He's still overrated on the Jets. He only plays on passing downs, and the Bills don't have the luxury of a one trick pony.

[Got_Wood]

You obviously don't watch the games do you...Moats is almost always left isolated 1-1, Dareus is doubled on virtually every play. Depending on the play call Kelsay is frequently getting the RB, TE, or G blocking down him. Teams don't NEED to do that, Kelsay is hardly a scary rusher. My point is that when a team has such few threats (as the Bills do), you are going to block the biggest threats. And uhh I doubt D coordinators are planning for Kelsay, but OC's yeah. That's their job, to plan against the other teams players whether they are good or not.

 

Like I have said, the Bills have no one better than Kelsay, I have yet to hear you offer anything on that other than confused looks..

 

 

 

Ok, I'll ask again then, if we cut Kelsay who do you start in his place? At no point have I said Kelsay is great...It just doesn't make any sense to cut a guy because you dont personally like him, If you have no one to replace him it just makes the team worse.

 

The point is that Kelsay shouldn't have been retained, and they should have filled the position with other players. He has been rewarded for his mediocrity and kept the position occupied, when we could have drafted or signed another free agent to replace him. You can't settle for players like this, and you certainly can't retain players like this for their entire career. ESPECIALLY when you're showing very good players like Lynch and Evans the door, and completely disrespecting our current best players in Jackson and Johnson. It's idiotic.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Turbo and K9 are right about Kelsay being the best option at this point (which is really sad). I disagree though about playing him - even though he's better than moats and batten at this point in their careers, the Bills should throw those guys in there anyway. Especially being out of contention at this point of the season. Kelsay's no world-beater at OLB, so they might as well give the two young guys more reps.

 

The Kelsay contract certainly doesn't handicap the Bills cap-wise. That doesn't mean they are justified in doing it. CK never came close to earning either of his last two contracts based on production. For whatever reason, he's dialed in with the higher ups in the front office and was rewarded for his "intangibles," whatever that means.

[Best Player Available]

My linkhttp://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4506/chris-kelsay

 

Chris Kelsay: Lights On.

He has dwindled into nothing. If he doesn't get cut after this season, something is seriously wrong. Just look at his career stats. He used to split snaps with Denney and still put up decent numbers. Now he is an "every down" player and can't do ANYTHING. This year he has only 1 sack (In the Redskins game where they were nearly automatic) and 0 tackles for a loss. 20 total tackles, 12 solo (mostly ugly for big gains) and 0 for every other stat. Does any other starting OLB in the NFL have such non-exsistant stats? I think it takes more than a "high motor" to be in the NFL. You have to make a play once in a while. AT LEAST one good play per season.

After seeing what we did with Evans, and Hang this year. I would hope. NO I would expect Kelsay to be on the overpaid veteran depth we purge every single season. see ya Chris!