Peter King on Toronto Series

[dollars 2 donuts]

All the more reason Erie County needs to lock up the Bills and fix up RWS.

 

PTR

 

 

We have thousands of members on this Board and not all of them are unemployed.

 

If each of us dedicates some of his or her time we'd have the Ralhp lookin' spiffy in no time.

[truth on hold]

 

1. Move the team.

2. Move the team partly to Toronto.

3. Move the team completely to Toronto

 

Was king talking about what they'd like to do with the team or with him?

Edited November 2, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack

[RuntheDamnBall]

I wonder if, at all, Ralph's people - Bills people, NFL people - would float or hype up the threat of leaving town, while maintaining an honest stated desire to keep the team in town. If offers coming from an ownership bid willing to keep the team in town increase, to something competitive with a prospective owner who would relocate, all the better for the Wilsons. It would not surprise me to see these kinds of business tactics at work here.

 

That's of course disheartening for Bills fans who just want reassurance, but it might explain some things, while not shutting the door on the team remaining in Buffalo.

[Billsfreak17]

In 1900, Buffalo was something like the 10th biggest city in the US. By 2000, we had become something like the 40th biggest metro area in the country. That demographic trajectory will be scary to anyone investing close to a billion dollars for a NFL franchise. There are only 32 teams, you'd expect them to be in the top 32 biggest markets. Buffalo has fallen out of the top 32 and will only fall further in the future.

 

So regionalization is the only hope. I'm all for a game per year in TO and hopefully our Canadian friends will warm up to the Bills.

 

I think the Canadian fans are warming up to them more. The (slightly) improved atmosphere in Tornonto this year supports that claim. Of course, the Bills on-field success is a big factor.

But think of it this way:

How close would you get to a woman who you knew was moving away in a few years? If the Bills sign a more permanent deal with Toronto, the fans there would definitely warm up to them even more.

I still hope Toronto builds another stadium sometime though...maybe in Hamilton or something, to make it a tad more accessible for natives of the U.S.A.

More organized logistics on the part of many parties (such as train trips, customs arranged to facilitate large groups more effectively, etc.) could lead to a far more beneficial and enjoyable arrangement for all concerned.

[RTW2012]

 

I still hope Toronto builds another stadium sometime though...maybe in Hamilton or something, to make it a tad more accessible for natives of the U.S.A.

More organized logistics on the part of many parties (such as train trips, customs arranged to facilitate large groups more effectively, etc.) could lead to a far more beneficial and enjoyable arrangement for all concerned.

 

I guarantee that Toronto will not build a stadium in Hamilton.

[Billsfreak17]

I guarantee that Toronto will not build a stadium in Hamilton.

Right.

And a city like New York wouldn't have it's teams playing in a neighboring city either.

The main knock against the deal now is the location of the stadium in downtown Tuhranna. No room for tailgating.

Putting the stadium closer to the border would definitely help draw some US fans across to the games.

Not to mention the lower property costs if the stadium is built somewhere other than downtown.

[Typical TBD Guy]

We have thousands of members on this Board and not all of them are unemployed.

 

Most of us are, though.

[RTW2012]

Right.

And a city like New York wouldn't have it's teams playing in a neighboring city either.

The main knock against the deal now is the location of the stadium in downtown Tuhranna. No room for tailgating.

Putting the stadium closer to the border would definitely help draw some US fans across to the games.

Not to mention the lower property costs if the stadium is built somewhere other than downtown.

 

So the city of Toronto will build a stadium in Hamilton?

[Billsfreak17]

So the city of Toronto will build a stadium in Hamilton?

Okay, I should have been more clear.

My point is that the Bills experiment would be more successful if there was a stadium closer to the US border than Rogers Center.

[Delete This Account]

 

Everybody got all warm and fuzzy when Roger Goodell was in town for the Eagles game and told the press something to the effect that he would do everything in his power to ensure that the Bills remained in WNY. Problem is, nobody followed up to ask him exactly what that might be.

the media did. he didn't answer, noting "i don't think there are assurances in anything other than if we continue to do our part."

and by that, he returned to the fans continuing their support and the need for stadium improvements.

Roger has to walk a fine line here because, like all of us, he doesn't know what the future holds, and doesn't want to be pinned down to making guarantees he can't deliver upon.

let's remember that though Roger has influence, there are 31 other owners out there with their own agendas.

 

jw

[MDH]

Hasn't Canada pretty much proven that they don't really support any sport except Hockey? Expos gone, Blue Jays at the bottom of league attendance for decades. The Grizzlies, like the Expos left Canada and Raptors are mid of the pack in attendance.

 

On the other hand Canadian teams are at the top of attendance in the NHL with Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton & Calgary all in the top 10.

 

Why do these leagues keep looking simply at Toronto's population instead of what they've proven in the past in regards to sports teams. Canadian's love hockey - that's their sport, why keep trying to put other sports up there when they've proven time and time again to not be that interested in it?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Hasn't Canada pretty much proven that they don't really support any sport except Hockey? Expos gone, Blue Jays at the bottom of league attendance for decades. The Grizzlies, like the Expos left Canada and Raptors are mid of the pack in attendance.

 

On the other hand Canadian teams are at the top of attendance in the NHL with Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton & Calgary all in the top 10.

 

Why do these leagues keep looking simply at Toronto's population instead of what they've proven in the past in regards to sports teams. Canadian's love hockey - that's their sport, why keep trying to put other sports up there when they've proven time and time again to not be that interested in it?

 

 

Very good point. Frankly, I think this is good for the Bills, because it means that it would make more sense to have a game or two in TO than to move the team altogether.

[Just Jack]

We have thousands of members on this Board and not all of them are unemployed.

 

If each of us dedicates some of his or her time we'd have the Ralhp lookin' spiffy in no time.

I would not want to be at a stadium that Rosen helped build.

[Direhard Fan]

Dome in Batavia. Conventsion center. Syracuse now within easy drive. 30 year lease. Do it.

[Shoto]

Why does Buffalo keep getting kicked in the face....did anyone see the half empty Paul Brown Statium in Cincinnati? The Ralph has never been that empty.....Iknow I know TV dollars, what BS.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

the media did. he didn't answer, noting "i don't think there are assurances in anything other than if we continue to do our part."

and by that, he returned to the fans continuing their support and the need for stadium improvements.

Roger has to walk a fine line here because, like all of us, he doesn't know what the future holds, and doesn't want to be pinned down to making guarantees he can't deliver upon.

let's remember that though Roger has influence, there are 31 other owners out there with their own agendas.

 

jw

I wasn't in the room and I assume you were, so I appreciate that you took the time to review your notes to provide an exact quote about what Goodell said before the Eagles game. Because we're talking about things that happened more than 3 weeks ago, and that you presumably observed in person while I merely read about them, I went back and re-read a couple reports of what happened that day.

 

I read this report first:

 

http://niagara-gazette.com/sports/x1038034921/Commish-inspires-Buffalo-fans-to-keep-Bill-lievin

 

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell fielded questions from a select group of season ticket-holders Sunday morning. Several times he was asked about the fate of football in Buffalo should soon-to-be 93-year-old Ralph Wilson join Al Davis in the existential owners’ suite.

 

Laid back as his summer hideaway on Chautauqua Lake each time the subject was broached, Goodell assured Bills fans they shouldn’t worry much about that inevitable day.

 

“I hope Mr. Wilson is going to be around for a long time, and he’s been a great owner,” Goodell said. “He has what he thinks are the right steps for the team, and we will work with him and the team to fulfill his wishes and do what’s in the best interest of this community and the team. It’s being taken care of.”

 

A young boy asked Goodell if Buffalo would get a replacement team should the Bills relocate. Goodell took a moment to explain to him what a hypothetical question was, then declined to answer said question. But the native son again calmed fears that the NFL will one day vulture Wilson’s team and abandon Western New York for a more lucrative market. “I promise you,” he said, “I’ll do everything I can to make sure it doesn’t happen.”

 

At that moment, Russ Brandon, the Bills’ chief operating officer, turned to the Orchard Park Bills player with an animated expression. Smiling and nodding to make the boy feel at ease, Brandon’s face also seemed to say, “We’ll be here to sell you season tickets when you’re old enough to afford them, kid.”

 

When reporters huddled around him after the fan forum, Goodell backtracked from his implication that Wilson has shared a succession plan with him. The commish said he could offer no assurances, but that he was confident the Bills would stay put if the community continues to do its part.

 

* * * * * * * *

 

“I have every bit of confidence that small market teams are going to continue to be successful,” Goodell said. “As long as we continue to have the proper stadiums and proper fan support.”

 

I realize that in order to make a story more readable, reporters don't merely quote questions and answers verbatim, and write articles that provide the info in a way that may be different from the exact chronological order of questions and answers they heard. But the above quote from the NG seems to imply that Goodell's statement about his inability to offer "assurance" was made in response to reporter questions seeking details about (1) why Goodell was confident that the Bills would stay in WNY, rather than (2) exactly what Goodell himself has the power to do. Goodell certainly implied that he would personally play a major role in whether the Bills would move post-Ralph, because Goodell told the boy "I promise you - - I'll do everything I can to make sure it doesn't happen."

 

The closest thing I could find to an actual transcript of everyone's questions and Goodell's answers was a blog entry by Chris Brown. I don't consider Brown a journalist because he's paid by the team he writes about, but I have no reason to think he misconstrued anything here (where although he uses no quotation marks, he seems to state Goodell's words exactly, thereby justifying Brown's description of the piece as a "transcript"):

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/NFL-Commissioner-Roger-Goodell-transcript/090e01f4-821f-4a74-aef3-cc74caebe73d

 

On what steps will be taken should the Bills ownership become vacated:

 

No, I think the point of the question from fans is will we have a process and ability to keep the Bills here and be successful. I think that’s the hope of Mr. Wilson and that the team will continue to be successful here in Western New York.

 

On what assurances he can provide other than confidence:

 

I don’t think there are assurances in anything other than if we continue to do our part, meaning we - this community. If we continue to keep this facility competitive with others and we continue to support the team, I’m confident that we’re going to continue to be successful here in Western New York. I know the team is already beginning negotiations on a longer-term lease, which is something we need to get done.

 

Once again, this report seems to indicate that Goodell's comments about Goodell's inability to provide "assurance" were made with respect to Goodell's "confidence" that the team will stay put.

 

That's not the same thing as asking Goodell to be specific about what Goodell actually has the power to do after he told the boy - - "I promise you - - I'll do everything I can to make sure it doesn't happen." Do you recall if anyone ever asked Goodell to specifically explain what the commissioner has the power to do himself to prevent a move? I don't recall seeing that mentioned in any of the articles I've read. But since you were there and I wasn't, I'm asking.

 

Because Goodell made that comment to the boy during the fan Q & A, and the press presumably only got to ask their own questions later, I can understand how Goodell might not have been asked to be more specific about what Goodell actually has the power to do to prevent a team move.

[Delete This Account]

I wasn't in the room and I assume you were, so I appreciate that you took the time to review your notes to provide an exact quote about what Goodell said before the Eagles game. Because we're talking about things that happened more than 3 weeks ago, and that you presumably observed in person while I merely read about them, I went back and re-read a couple reports of what happened that day.

 

I read this report first:

 

http://niagara-gazette.com/sports/x1038034921/Commish-inspires-Buffalo-fans-to-keep-Bill-lievin

 

 

 

I realize that in order to make a story more readable, reporters don't merely quote questions and answers verbatim, and write articles that provide the info in a way that may be different from the exact chronological order of questions and answers they heard. But the above quote from the NG seems to imply that Goodell's statement about his inability to offer "assurance" was made in response to reporter questions seeking details about (1) why Goodell was confident that the Bills would stay in WNY, rather than (2) exactly what Goodell himself has the power to do. Goodell certainly implied that he would personally play a major role in whether the Bills would move post-Ralph, because Goodell told the boy "I promise you - - I'll do everything I can to make sure it doesn't happen."

 

The closest thing I could find to an actual transcript of everyone's questions and Goodell's answers was a blog entry by Chris Brown. I don't consider Brown a journalist because he's paid by the team he writes about, but I have no reason to think he misconstrued anything here (where although he uses no quotation marks, he seems to state Goodell's words exactly, thereby justifying Brown's description of the piece as a "transcript"):

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/NFL-Commissioner-Roger-Goodell-transcript/090e01f4-821f-4a74-aef3-cc74caebe73d

 

 

 

Once again, this report seems to indicate that Goodell's comments about Goodell's inability to provide "assurance" were made with respect to Goodell's "confidence" that the team will stay put.

 

That's not the same thing as asking Goodell to be specific about what Goodell actually has the power to do after he told the boy - - "I promise you - - I'll do everything I can to make sure it doesn't happen." Do you recall if anyone ever asked Goodell to specifically explain what the commissioner has the power to do himself to prevent a move? I don't recall seeing that mentioned in any of the articles I've read. But since you were there and I wasn't, I'm asking.

 

Because Goodell made that comment to the boy during the fan Q & A, and the press presumably only got to ask their own questions later, I can understand how Goodell might not have been asked to be more specific about what Goodell actually has the power to do to prevent a team move.

you realize it would be a lot easier -- and you would get less flak from me and other posters -- if for once you limited a response to one link or less (preferably) and maybe a paragraph for once.

who has the time to read this?

 

jw