KollegeStudnet Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 the three seperate sites were to show there are spaces available for parking... Are you f'ing broken? A retractable roof stadium in Buffalo? Sacrilege. Really!? retractable or not...it is the whole 'layout' of what is around the stadium is the point of the post! Why build a stadium in today's market and not have anything around it to make it a 365 day venue and tourist destination--that's the proposal the Vikings have on their webiste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 My support for a NF complex has zippo to do with what city I think deserves a bump. It has to do with building off tourism. Right now the Canadian side of the Falls is where the action is. But NF CAN will never have an NFL team. On game days the US side will be the place to be. But then you can host other events: a college bowl game, a Final Four, Frozen Four, major concerts, a stadium NHL game between the Leafs and Sabres, and (dare I dream it???) A SUPER BOWL!! Then on non-event days you develop an "NFL Experience" type of attraction, stadium tours, a Bills museum, etc. All this just steps away from one of the natural wonders of the world. What you want to create is a synergy between the two side of the Falls. You can't ignore all that is happening on the CAN side. It's almost like a mini-Vegas. You want to be close to that while developing your own attractions. Plus imagine the sex appeal to prospective free agents visiting the Bills. PTR The pix is awesome. PTR has also presented compelling arguments for locating a new stadium in NF. My only concern would be access roads and infrastructure (including parking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 The pix is awesome. PTR has also presented compelling arguments for locating a new stadium in NF. My only concern would be access roads and infrastructure (including parking). Tell me if you see any empty space. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 (edited) the three seperate sites were to show there are spaces available for parking... Even with a large fleet of shuttle buses to transport fans from [very] remote lots (which would never work, anyway), I still don't see how you piece these 3 sites together - Link-Nabisco Factory Link-NF Medical Ctr Link-Rainbow Centre and come up with anything even one third the size of this... Link-RWS Complex (yes, all 4 maps are to same scale) The pix is awesome. I can't believe that anyone actually thinks a Lucas Oil Stadium is even remotely appealing aesthetically - especially if shoe-horned' into a small, tight urban setting like The Cataract City. Likewise with that Minnesota monstrosity. (Which, of course, must be enclosed - since it's usually about 10-below there in the winter!) However, something in The BuffTown, right on Lake Erie, could be magical - right at the water's edge...like this... Edited July 1, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Whoever did the photo cleanup should be embarrassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Whoever did the photo cleanup should be embarrassed. The one above is an actual photo of Aviva soccer stadium in Dublin... link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I can't argue with this logic, and it's exactly what the NF area could benefit from, but what then does the city of Buffalo get left with? How then can the city benefit from the team that bears it's name when it clearly has very little to draw visitors? I can't compete with the falls idea. but I see a very similar concept working for downtown Buffalo, where a very beautiful waterfront, shopping, extended access via subway, and expand the subway rail system to outlying areas, and allow the stadium to revive other railway landmarks. Since the falls is trying to develop the area as a gambling destination, I can't agree with adding all the above mentioned attractions to that area when continued casino and resort area development could be the reason to visit, and your concept of hosting finals, superbowls and other high profile events becomes the reason you visit Buffalo. The drive into the Buffalo area on the canadian side is wide open and not very long relatively speaking when you are coming in from Toronto. The city of Buffalo sorely needs all the reasons you mentioned to help bolster it's economy, and reason to visit as opposed to not developing a pretty nice view of the lake. My vision sees more recreational use of the waterfront along with the prospect of having a venue that could draw tons of other attractions. People and players would have a reason to want to play for a city where they can work and play in a very useful natural resource. So sum up because we have the same views for each city that we are supporting here is that I think the falls area already has something to build on, where the Buffalo downtown district needs something bigger to develop a new identity. Thank you...a voice of reason and all points included. WNY has many options if a regional approach could ever be used. Here's a concept create downtown Buffalo for your sport entertainment and include the best restaurants (family owned or chain)& sports bars along the strip to this section (think 5 block walk). Regional plan funnels major conventions to NF to use all the resources described, ties both regions with the Marta type rail subway system,commute either way would be 20 mins maxs (unheard of in major cities). Line the route down the 190 from Buff to NF with high rise apt complexes & hotels and various artistic features.We need collaborative efforts to sell this region, i do concede that the majority of the conventions would have to come during the summer & fall seasons when it is absolutely wonderful to be in this area.Since we're dreamin I may as well add my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think you may be underestimating the amount of land required for a 70,000-80,000-seat stadium, along with associated ancillary field houses, practice fields, parking lots, executive offices, etc. Take another look - Ralph Wilson Stadium Complex It is larger then the entire ECC South campus directly behind. (The Rainbow Centre Mall and attached parking garage combined are still, I believe, smaller than the current Bills field house.) I think you are forgetting that you can multi-level parking garages to alleviate some of your available parking space concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) However, something in The BuffTown, right on Lake Erie, could be magical - right at the water's edge...like this... You need to stop off at the like front on some blustery December day. Not fun at all. As nice as the lake front is in summer it's a horror show in the colder months. I personally would not mind a non-retractable dome. There are way more bad weather days than good in WNY. Plus building a retractable roof adds $300-400M to your price. Not worth in IMO. Call me a wuss but the older you get the less fun freezing your azz off becomes. PTR Edited July 2, 2011 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyjustbcuz Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aFauB8KNc_k8rGiuOHLTig?feat=directlink Always liked Lucas Oil Stadium and was wondering what it would look like in downtown Niagara Falls. Slapped together using http://www.splashup.com/ a great photoshop alternative online. Well I have always been opposed to the idea of relocating the Bills to Niagara Falls..but I admit that it would be a very attractive venue. We would definitely make Monday Night Football (at least in the inaugural year of the new stadium)..Along with such a stadium it would make sense to build up the waterfront as our American side is real hum drum compared to the Canadian side of the falls. I think we would get even a greater portion of Canadians as attendees at the Bills games, and I could see television expanded to the Canadian audience as well (if it's not already?) I'm not excited about the move, but to keep the Bills in the region longterm it seems like it will eventually be in the Bills interest to do so before they get scooped up and relocate to a whole different fan base somewhere in Iowa! (Or Idaho..LA..whatever.) If we have a new stadium along with it would probably come a lengthy lease and committment to the area. I would like to see the Bills remain the Buffalo Bills though...and I don't know if that would happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) You need to stop off at the like front on some blustery December day. Not fun at all. As nice as the lake front is in summer it's a horror show in the colder months. I personally would not mind a non-retractable dome. There are way more bad weather days than good in WNY. Plus building a retractable roof adds $300-400M to your price. Not worth in IMO. Call me a wuss but the older you get the less fun freezing your azz off becomes. PTR Stop there??? I lived there!!! (For six years, right by the Marina.) And I loved every minute of it - particularly when the storms got crazy. I jogged along the water almost every day, summer and winter. People even ice-fish. The weather's just fine. It's nothing, really. Unless you're a wimp. (Also, if you build one of those new-style open-air stadia with the small opening directly over the field - like the Aviva stadium in Dublin that I cited - the spectators would be somewhat shielded from the brunt of the lake winds anyway.) . Edited July 11, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I think you are forgetting that you can multi-level parking garages to alleviate some of your available parking space concerns. OK then, let's think - for a brief moment - about the logistical nightmare of ingress/egress (for both vehicles AND people exiting from them to walk to the stadium) from a 10- story parking ramp, filled to capacity on game day, and multiply it times about 6 or 7 ramps. Because that's about what you'd be talking. One of the larger ramps in downtown BuffTown - the Ausperger ramp at Pearl and Chippewa - is 4 stories, and holds only 1300 cars. Do the math and you'll begin to realize that you'd need multiple 10-story (or 20-story!!!!) ramps cramped into a tight urban setting to accommodate game day parking. Now imagine parking on the top level, and then trying to get out onto a narrow street in an urban setting after the game ends. It just doesn't work. Besides, can you even imagine tailgating in a parking ramp? Open fires, grills, etc.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 OK then, let's think - for a brief moment - about the logistical nightmare of ingress/egress (for both vehicles AND people exiting from them to walk to the stadium) from a 10- story parking ramp, filled to capacity on game day, and multiply it times about 6 or 7 ramps. Because that's about what you'd be talking. One of the larger ramps in downtown BuffTown - the Ausperger ramp at Pearl and Chippewa - is 4 stories, and holds only 1300 cars. Do the math and you'll begin to realize that you'd need multiple 10-story (or 20-story!!!!) ramps cramped into a tight urban setting to accommodate game day parking. Now imagine parking on the top level, and then trying to get out onto a narrow street in an urban setting after the game ends. It just doesn't work. Besides, can you even imagine tailgating in a parking ramp? Open fires, grills, etc.?? There ample space to build in the city, here's a though use the lots near HSBC & build out from there (like other cities) KC, Cleveland, Philly, Dallas and Pittsburg. Its amazing how creative you can become when you open your mind, also keep in mind the experience and options visiting spectators will have in a sports entertaining district that offer sports bars & restaurant,etc. along the way to there walk the stadium...as opposed to having to wonder where to go for entertainment while here for a couple day visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 There ample space to build in the city, here's a though use the lots near HSBC & build out from there (like other cities) KC, Cleveland, Philly, Dallas and Pittsburg. Its amazing how creative you can become when you open your mind, also keep in mind the experience and options visiting spectators will have in a sports entertaining district that offer sports bars & restaurant,etc. along the way to there walk the stadium...as opposed to having to wonder where to go for entertainment while here for a couple day visit. Only problem is that these guys are suggesting a stadium in Niagara Falls - that's what's creating the argument about parking lots. Don't you think that maybe the lots near HSBC are a bit too far from any stadium built in Niagara Falls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 A water front stadium makes too much sense, just like cutting off NY City from the rest of the state. The politicians have their heads too far up their a**es to make the right moves. It kills me to see cities like Cinci & Chicago build up on the water fronts the way Buffalo should....... Even Baltimore looks better than it did 15 years ago & yet there is Baffalo just wasting away trying to support NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Only problem is that these guys are suggesting a stadium in Niagara Falls - that's what's creating the argument about parking lots. Don't you think that maybe the lots near HSBC are a bit too far from any stadium built in Niagara Falls? Good point but I copied and responded to the response about a stadium in DT Buffalo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I've said it a million times, a stadium ensures Bills football in the area for a long time. The organization should pursue that goal and stop acting like the Ralph is on par with other NFL teams. Yes I understand that it gets the job done but that's no longer good enough for this league. The Ralph is better than some NFL stadiums I have visited. The Washington one is terrible with poor sight lines. Bigger and fancier is not necessarily better. Who should new stadium be created for? Season ticket holders? I only hear complaining from rising prices. Casual ticket purchasers? More likely to purchase higher priced seats but no guarantee to fill stadium; many of them are opposition fans who are used to paying higher prices but not all teams have fans that travel well. "bills1960 opposition fan stadium" might work economically but no guarantee and I am sure there will be more complaints from coach potatoes. Premium Season ticket holders? I only hear complaining from rising prices but many do not go to all games so maybe they will not mind paying more for games they go. Club booth renters? Hard to sell booths now. Opposing teams? Are they willing to fund it? Developers of new stadium? I am sure they will be for it - if their proposal is chosen otherwise will be part of opposition. Taxpayers? They do not even want to fund current stadium Players? Not if one cent comes out of their percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) If the actual FALLS cannot save the city of Niagara Falls NY, a stadium anywhere in Niagara Falls will not help one bit - just like the Casino has not helped. I am from Lewiston; now live in MA... was home this weekend for the holiday and decided to watch the fireworks in Niagara Falls. The city is a mess. Pine Avenue is a mess. Main Street is a mess. Some of the housing stock is ok but most of it is shot. There is NO sex appeal about the actual city except for its name and the state park. Anyone suggesting they build the stadium either on the state park or anywhere near the actual FALLS or Rainbow Mall have no clue wtf they're talking about... EVERY politician associated with Niagara Falls, on the local, county and STATE (yes, Governor, I am talking to you) - should be embarassed and responsbile for what Niagara Falls is today... the area should be deemed a disaster area and rebuilt. Only then, can we seriously talk about Niagara Falls as a viable option. Given the economic and socio-economic conditions of NY State - our options include: 1) Remodel current location 2) Build in Buffalo 3) Build near UB North off 990 and team up with SUNY Buffalo Bulls 4) Build on Grand Island near Beaver Island - amazing views of both the Falls, skyline of both Buffalo and Niagara... (yes, build a bridge from Canada to GI; and another access point near NT). 5) Niagara Falls Edited July 5, 2011 by buffalobillsfootball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) A water front stadium makes too much sense, just like cutting off NY City from the rest of the state. The politicians have their heads too far up their a**es to make the right moves. It kills me to see cities like Cinci & Chicago build up on the water fronts the way Buffalo should....... Even Baltimore looks better than it did 15 years ago & yet there is Baffalo just wasting away trying to support NYC. A waterfront (single use) stadium makes almost no sense. For comparison, would you, or anyone with limited resources build a $300,000 house to live in for only one day a month? Even if you had a covered stadium, do you think given a choice, convention goers would choose Buffalo over some sunny/sandy locale in mid February? The waterfron offers nothing. Wake up. Crytal Beach is a nice memory for nostalgic WNYers, but those days are over. Times change. People aren't going to go shopping on the waterfront. We have much more convenient suburban malls. Bass Pro Shop - niche market. Hardly the anchor to a waterfront sub-economy. Unless there were an enormous master plan with multiple developers, any proposal of a waterfront stadium is a foolish. And in the current economy, there's not exactly a big line of investors waiting to part with their money. Buffalo is already too stigmatized to be a major tourist destination. It's also too seasonal to be economically feasible. What fantastic attractions could be put on the waterfront that could survive with mostly summer activity? I've been hearing this BS for 30 years about the rest of NY State supporting NYC. It's crap. It's some myth started by envious upstaters years ago. NYC is dynamic, bustling, energetic machine and provides a huge portion of NY State tax revenue. If the rest of the state were to annex the Big Apple, do you think they could support themselves on their failing business plans and corrupt municipalities? I'm a native of the Queen City, love it, and consider it my hometown, but the politicians and constituency who elect them are largely a bunch of backward thinking idiots. The same breed of politicians keep getting put into office. Their solution to fiscal crunches is to raise taxes - exactly the opposite of what should be done to stimulate any economy. Something as simple as building a F-ing bridge to Canada or developing the waterfront are ideas that are argued over - not for months - but for decades. And nothing ever gets done! Meanwhile, the only people left in WNY are those who couldn't leave their aging parents, got jobs in the educational/University system, some other taxpayer funded position, or medical fields, or who just can't leave their favorite bar stool at the southside gin mill of choice. Suggesting NY City is somehow a drain on the rest of the state is like saying Disneyworld is taking resources and money that could be used for local hotels around Orlando. As far as lousy politicians go, keep in mind they're elected officials. Blame those who buy into their rhetoric and continue to re-elect them. Niagara Falls has millions of people and dollars pouring into it from outside the area every day. NY State should realize the potential revenue that can be gained from drawing some of the Canadian business back to the states. A multi-use stadium would be a good first step. Edited July 5, 2011 by DML2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxelRipper Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I think I found the perfect place... but it would require a few more bridges to be put in linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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