Scrappy Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 The Bills best hope for the future is selling the regional fan base, from Toronto to Syracuse. Add all those metros up and you have a very major market. But prices will have to go up and a new stadium will need to be built eventually. The NFL is an expensive club to belong to. Until another Pete Rozelle becomes the commissioner Buffalo will have to keep up with the (Jerruh) Joneses. PTR I couldn't agree with you more & cannot see how others are either simply blind to the facts or just ignoring them on purpose. I know some of you probably live close enough to the stadium to see it's best to stay where it's at but what is best for the long-term health of the team is what is important. Regionalizing the team nearly assures us of a much bigger market & assures a long-term viability, which I feel is a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The key word is "known." When has Ralph said this is his plan publicly? I thought he didn't have a known succession plan. Did Jerry even speak with him for this article? Wawrow commented in October after actually meeting with Ralph this: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2010/10/12/1746725/wawrow-speculates-on-possible-bills-succession-plan Wawrow is on the money here. From my dealings there has been a plan in place for a number of years. Thats why Jerry in using all of his journalistic intregrity says "KNOWN" succession plan. Yea its not publicly known jerry because of guys like you. The corp Ralph owns, which owns the Bills, came up with the plan in the late 80's, and it has mechanisms in place to keep the Bills in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Wawrow is on the money here. From my dealings there has been a plan in place for a number of years. Thats why Jerry in using all of his journalistic intregrity says "KNOWN" succession plan. Yea its not publicly known jerry because of guys like you. The corp Ralph owns, which owns the Bills, came up with the plan in the late 80's, and it has mechanisms in place to keep the Bills in WNY. i sure hope you are right, obviously, it is what i want to believe and hope beyond hope , it is true. the headline in PROFOOTBALLTALK.COM makes me nervous though. Edited June 19, 2011 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 i sure hope you are right, obviously, it is what i want to believe and hope beyond hope , it is true. the headline in PROFOOTBALLTALK.COM makes me nervous though. Well it doesnt guarantee the Bills stay here but it puts all the pieces in place. Those saying the team has to be sold to the highest bidder are incorrect. Its simply not the case. Ralph may be old cheap and generally a less than stellar owner, BUT he is very concerned about his legacy (part of the reason they never re-sold stadium naming rights), he will not go down as an owner who screwed his beloved Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Well it doesnt guarantee the Bills stay here but it puts all the pieces in place. Those saying the team has to be sold to the highest bidder are incorrect. Its simply not the case. Ralph may be old cheap and generally a less than stellar owner, BUT he is very concerned about his legacy (part of the reason they never re-sold stadium naming rights), he will not go down as an owner who screwed his beloved Bills. We all hope for the Bills will stay but after hearing the highest bidder speech from Ralph with nothing further having been said since, I think caution is in order about dreaming something different. Ralph is a businessman first & this was an investment, so I would expect that will not change after all this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Well it doesnt guarantee the Bills stay here but it puts all the pieces in place. Those saying the team has to be sold to the highest bidder are incorrect. Its simply not the case. Ralph may be old cheap and generally a less than stellar owner, BUT he is very concerned about his legacy (part of the reason they never re-sold stadium naming rights), he will not go down as an owner who screwed his beloved Bills. curious, why all the hush hush about the plan? why cant a comment or two come from him, or someone within the hierarchy be made to soothe us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 curious, why all the hush hush about the plan? why cant a comment or two come from him, or someone within the hierarchy be made to soothe us? If it was set in stone, you'd here about it. This is a liquid situation based on time of death & the estate tax situation at that time. Ralph may live to be 100 years old & all the rules are different then, how can you set a plan in stone for that ?? Did they plan on Rogers dying before Ralph ?? I think not & he was a player for the team, if that wasn't obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) If it was set in stone, you'd here about it. This is a liquid situation based on time of death & the estate tax situation at that time. Ralph may live to be 100 years old & all the rules are different then, how can you set a plan in stone for that ?? Did they plan on Rogers dying before Ralph ?? I think not & he was a player for the team, if that wasn't obvious. that seems logical for sure, but leads to me thinking about other questions . who determines when ralph is incapable of making decisions? , who decides that?, is he in fact, making decisions now?, these are just things i wonder about. is he mentally competent to decide his position on the new CBA? Edited June 19, 2011 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 curious, why all the hush hush about the plan? why cant a comment or two come from him, or someone within the hierarchy be made to soothe us? i would say there's two schools of thought regarding the "secrecy" 1: the plan would not be popular among the fans and 2: not disclosing a plan eliminates the possibility of having to change the plan in case there's some snag down the road i believe the second position is more likely. imagine ralph comes out and says, "don't worry, i'll sell the team to X when i pass, and he/they will keep the bills in buffalo." all of a sudden, competing groups might arise and attempt to screw up the deal. politicians will get involved. fans will B word and moan to the tune of "if youre going to sell it to X anyway, just do it now" plus, if ralph announces his plan, what if he lives for ten more years and then X loses their money somehow in the meantime? then what? i'm sure ralph and his execs have a ton of plans and contingency plans. but it wouldn't be in anyone's best interests to make those plans public. ultimately it's up to ralph. announcing his plan(s) will just invite the public to debate the merits of those plans, when they don't actually have a say in what happens. all in all, i'm confident ralph has taken measures to ensure that his legacy is not tarnished by allowing the bills to leave buffalo. as someone pointed out, one can look to not selling the naming rights to the stadium. if it really was ONLY about the $, i think the bills would've been gone a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj____ Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 if it really was ONLY about the $, i think the bills would've been gone a long time ago. really? and go where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 "Then Jerry adds an extra layer of gossip with "Wilson has no known succession plan." (Wilson is smart, of course he has a succession plan... it's just not known to the public.. for good reason)" Jim Kelly has hinted that there is a succession plan. And it includes the Bills staying in Buffalo. The truth is that Jerry doesn't know what Wilson's heirs plan to do. This is - like most of Sully's articles - pessimistic speculation. That's is not to say that I am not concerned. Sully's information, while not new, is worrisome. A profit-minded businessman would put the Bills somewhere else. Buffalo is not only a small market - it's also not a growth market. Let's hope Jimbo is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 This is a load of crap. Ralph may be cheap but he's not dumb, he's a business man. There is no logical reason why he would keep this team in Buffalo for all this time just for the heck of it. He obviously intends on the Bills staying, or he would have made more money by just selling them years ago. I'm 100% certain he has some type of plan set up after his death to keep the Bills here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I couldn't agree with you more & cannot see how others are either simply blind to the facts or just ignoring them on purpose. I know some of you probably live close enough to the stadium to see it's best to stay where it's at but what is best for the long-term health of the team is what is important. Regionalizing the team nearly assures us of a much bigger market & assures a long-term viability, which I feel is a no-brainer. A new stadium or a vastly refurbished Rich Stadium will be needed sooner than later, true enough. But Niagra Falls? Its only 16 miles from B-Lo. It's not like that's adding that much more value to someone coming from further up in Ontario. Ticket prices will have to go up to an average NFL level too. No more discounts. But I believe most folks will pay. Especially IF the Bills put a good product on the field. I'm not concerned that they will move. Because we haven't heard about a plan doesn't mean there isn't one. Mr. Wilson could have moved the team many times and did not. His legacy is in WNY. The Bills have a rich tradition. There are money people, who can afford to buy them, who are starting to make comments about buying and keeping the Bills in WNY. Yes, Mr. Wilson passing would indicate a heightened level of interest from the L.A. group. Doesn't mean they will get the team. I'm interested in Halle Berry. So far she has yet to come pay me a visit. The best thing for Bills fans to do is stop worrying about every article that comes out. There's nothing we can do about it anyway. But if you read the tea leaves you would see there is a very good possibility they stay put going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 really? and go where? LA, Toronto, Las Vegas, Columbus, Cleveland before they came back, Baltimore before cleveland went there, any of the expansion cities of the last 30 years, any area w a metro population > 1 million... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 "Then Jerry adds an extra layer of gossip with "Wilson has no known succession plan." (Wilson is smart, of course he has a succession plan... it's just not known to the public.. for good reason)" Jim Kelly has hinted that there is a succession plan. And it includes the Bills staying in Buffalo. The truth is that Jerry doesn't know what Wilson's heirs plan to do. This is - like most of Sully's articles - pessimistic speculation. That's is not to say that I am not concerned. Sully's information, while not new, is worrisome. A profit-minded businessman would put the Bills somewhere else. Buffalo is not only a small market - it's also not a growth market. Let's hope Jimbo is right. Not a growth market right now. Doesn't mean it will stay that way. Times change and circumstance changes with it. Buffalo as a traditional manufacturing hub is done because most companies have shipped those jobs overseas. But there are medical/scientific industries (which it seems B-Lo is starting to tap, clean energy industries, etc.) B-Lo just needs to readjust "its" mindset and make a plan to re-energize the city/region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj____ Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 LA, Toronto, Las Vegas, Columbus, Cleveland before they came back, Baltimore before cleveland went there, any of the expansion cities of the last 30 years, any area w a metro population > 1 million... literally none of those would every happen/make sense with the exception of LA and Toronto and those are recent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) We all love to blame Ralph for something he has no control over: the state of the economy in WNY. We all feel like Ralph Wilson and the NFL owe us something but in the Wall Street world no one does anyone any favors. What I find ironic is how the same people who preach free markets are the same ones upset when the free market says L.A. is a better home for the Bills. PTR The free market is not what turned Buffalo into an economic wasteland. Local pols and voters chose pensions over progress years ago, and that choice sent businesses packing. Now what is left is basically a retirement home paid for by an ever-shrinking tax base. Edited June 19, 2011 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 We all love to blame Ralph for something he has no control over: the state of the economy in WNY. We all feel like Ralph Wilson and the NFL owe us something but in the Wall Street world no one does anyone any favors. What I find ironic is how the same people who preach free markets are the same ones upset when the free market says L.A. is a better home for the Bills. PTR The NFL does not operate in the world of free markets. If it did, we might have two teams in Dallas, four teams in NYC, and the ability to form a new team at will in any city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The NFL does not operate in the world of free markets. If it did, we might have two teams in Dallas, four teams in NYC, and the ability to form a new team at will in any city. i fear that is where it is headed. that is ultimately what the courts would rule if it ever got taken to that point. if it does, then, screw em! the goose will be killed, the dollars will shrink, and they will have self-destructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The NFL could -- I DON'T KNOW -- just expand to LA and end all of this. But they don't. They love having some cities serving as a threat to other cities to force through publicly-financed billion dollar playpens for billionaire owners. Another factor to consider in this is that one thing Sully said in his typical fact-free rant was: The owners are interested in one thing: Profit. It is clear right now where the major source of cash and profit is for the NFL: The TV networks. They provide orders of magnitude more cash and profits to the individual teams than gate sales and local profit streams. A key question is what benefits the TV networks the most and that is of course eyeballs so they can make their own profits selling commercials to companies. The answer is eyeball. If a team comes to LA (much less two) it likely will mean an end to the blackout rules for non-sellouts because there is no way the networks will want to blackout the whole LA area if a team fails to sellout. In fact, I do not know what the actual viewership #s are without a team in LA but the networks (again the true source of money and profits for the NFL team owners) may be quite fine not having the games blacked out in LA. The countervailing theory would be that with a team in LA there will be more CA viewers. Perhaps that will be the case. However, given the past failures of LA teams to produce at the gate given the myriad other nice weather choices and the parking lots known as roads one has to navigate, it could easily be that the networks make more money from there not being a team in LA (much less two). Overall, maybe I am just being Pollyanna about the Bills moving, but I think the bottom line for the NFL is money. If the Bills leave, the individual owner really gets little money from their cut of the franchise fees. In addition, to leave means walking away from 40,000 + season ticket holders, myriad commercial deals and all the assets in place in Buffalo. A lot of this can be replaced in the excitement of a new franchise, but it will take a lot of work and is not a certainty at all that there is more profit for the individual NFL owner by the Bills moving or not. The smart thing to do in terms of profit for the NFL is given a choice between profit in Buffalo and profit in Toronto, the obvious NFL answer is to take both. I see little reason why both profit centers cannot exist and actually like McDonalds and Burger King which found when they set up next to each other they both profit more. My guess is that the NFL goes with the cash and the cash says you want to get at the eyeballs in LA, the eyeballs in Toronto, the eteballs in Mexico City and even the eyeballs in Beijing if you can. This where the money is and the NFL tends to follow the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts